Medical fraud

[Beebs52]

This link shows a bunch of bad doers in the medicare etc billing arena. Some are from Spring/The Woodlands, podiatry. How the FUCK do you bill 90 million in fraudulent claims without someone noticing before now?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdtx/pr/ne ... d-takedown

[BackInTex]

This link shows a bunch of bad doers in the medicare etc billing arena. Some are from Spring/The Woodlands, podiatry. How the FUCK do you bill 90 million in fraudulent claims without someone noticing before now?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdtx/pr/ne ... d-takedown

Did you not see the media (and thus average voter) rail against Musk and his DOGE team? The left, swampy Republicans, and thus the media, don't want controls, just give-a-ways (for votes). If some of your money falls through the cracks, it's a cost of doing business.

[mrkelley23]

This link shows a bunch of bad doers in the medicare etc billing arena. Some are from Spring/The Woodlands, podiatry. How the FUCK do you bill 90 million in fraudulent claims without someone noticing before now?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdtx/pr/ne ... d-takedown

Did you not see the media (and thus average voter) rail against Musk and his DOGE team? The left, swampy Republicans, and thus the media, don't want controls, just give-a-ways (for votes). If some of your money falls through the cracks, it's a cost of doing business.

Hmmm. This sounds like an incredibly intricate, difficult case to make. I wonder when DOJ started its investigation?

[silverscreenselect]

Did you not see the media (and thus average voter) rail against Musk and his DOGE team? The left, swampy Republicans, and thus the media, don't want controls, just give-a-ways (for votes). If some of your money falls through the cracks, it's a cost of doing business.

Former DOGE engineer says he was 'surprised' by 'how efficient' the government is

DOGE Finds Zero Fraud, Waste, or Abuse, Just New Ways to Harm Veterans

Doge unemployment ‘fraud’ discoveries are old finds from Biden era, experts say

Trump and Musk can’t seem to locate much evidence of fraud -- They keep justifying their bold moves as combating fraud, but they have been unable so far to point to much of anything specific that’s actually fraudulent.

Fact check: Eight ways Elon Musk has misled Americans about government spending

Why DOGE's latest unemployment fraud discovery isn't what it seems

‘It’s a Heist’: Real Federal Auditors Are Horrified by DOGE -- WIRED talked to actual federal auditors about how government auditing works—and how DOGE is doing the opposite.

I couldn't let that one go. DOGE's alleged uncovering of massive fraud and waste is one of the biggest shams perpetrated on the American public.

[flockofseagulls104]

Did you not see the media (and thus average voter) rail against Musk and his DOGE team? The left, swampy Republicans, and thus the media, don't want controls, just give-a-ways (for votes). If some of your money falls through the cracks, it's a cost of doing business.

Former DOGE engineer says he was 'surprised' by 'how efficient' the government is

DOGE Finds Zero Fraud, Waste, or Abuse, Just New Ways to Harm Veterans

Doge unemployment ‘fraud’ discoveries are old finds from Biden era, experts say

Trump and Musk can’t seem to locate much evidence of fraud -- They keep justifying their bold moves as combating fraud, but they have been unable so far to point to much of anything specific that’s actually fraudulent.

Fact check: Eight ways Elon Musk has misled Americans about government spending

Why DOGE's latest unemployment fraud discovery isn't what it seems

‘It’s a Heist’: Real Federal Auditors Are Horrified by DOGE -- WIRED talked to actual federal auditors about how government auditing works—and how DOGE is doing the opposite.

I couldn't let that one go. DOGE's alleged uncovering of massive fraud and waste is one of the biggest shams perpetrated on the American public.

Of course you couldn't. And you buttress your argument citing the same media that has lied to us about every controversial issue of our time. CNN, Guardian, Washi gton Post, Rolling Stone. Might as well ask Joe Biden. Or Kamala Hartis. (You can always go back and edit her answer). There no fraud in the federal government. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[silverscreenselect]

There no fraud in the federal government. Yeah, that's the ticket.

I never said there wasn't any fraud in federal government. I said that DOGE uncovered virtually no new evidence of fraud. And what they've done is to gain access to millions of sensitive records that can be used to perpetrate fraud if they fall in the wrong hand. Do you know how carefully these DOGE "watchdogs" were vetted?

As mrkelley noted, uncovering actual fraud means lawsuits to disgorge unjust enrichment and arrests. If DOGE was really doing what Trump and Musk claimed, we'd have banner headlines every single day of the administration instead of ... crickets.

And flock's reply again reinforces why I don't like to get involved in threads here. No counter evidence; just claims about fake news in the mainstream media.

[jarnon]

It’s the same in all their enforcement efforts. Trump claimed many workers were slacking off or had a side job while telecommuting. However, the law requires proof before civil servants are fired. So Trump, Musk and Vought fired probationary workers, who have fewer legal protections, en masse, letting go of valuable employees and degrading government services.

The wrongdoers, at least the successful ones, are too sly to be caught that easily. Social Security cheats don’t claim to have birth dates around 1900. MS-13 terrorists don’t work at Home Depot. So they stay free while the administration arrests whomever they can catch.

[flockofseagulls104]

There no fraud in the federal government. Yeah, that's the ticket.

I never said there wasn't any fraud in federal government. I said that DOGE uncovered virtually no new evidence of fraud. And what they've done is to gain access to millions of sensitive records that can be used to perpetrate fraud if they fall in the wrong hand. Do you know how carefully these DOGE "watchdogs" were vetted?

As mrkelley noted, uncovering actual fraud means lawsuits to disgorge unjust enrichment and arrests. If DOGE was really doing what Trump and Musk claimed, we'd have banner headlines every single day of the administration instead of ... crickets.

And flock's reply again reinforces why I don't like to get involved in threads here. No counter evidence; just claims about fake news in the mainstream media.

No, you never said there wasn't any fraud. You just copied and pasted articles from self-discredited 'news' sources telling you more anti-trump bullshit that DOGE and Musk were making things up.

No counter evidence?

How about telling us that Hunter's laptop was Russian disinfo right before the election? How about lying to us about Joe's mental health? How about editing Kamala's answers to make her look coherent? How about referring to a leaked low-level assessment of the Iran nuclear damage as another attempt to discredit trump? When will your side cut out the shit? Most of the country is on to you. Do something or propose something that is actually CONSTRUCTIVE for once, instead of destructive.

You don't like to get involved in threads here for the same reason the above average attorney bailed out. Your arguments are 5 miles wide and 1/2 inch deep, and you now have figured out you can't defend them very well. So you've left it to the lunatic whose arguments boil down to that we don't like brown skin or something. Don't blame it on me.

[silverscreenselect]

No counter evidence?

How about telling us that Hunter's laptop was Russian disinfo right before the election? How about lying to us about Joe's mental health? How about editing Kamala's answers to make her look coherent? How about referring to a leaked low-level assessment of the Iran nuclear damage as another attempt to discredit trump? When will your side cut out the shit? Most of the country is on to you. Do something or propose something that is actually CONSTRUCTIVE for once, instead of destructive.

I repeat. No counter evidence. Whatever may or may not have been on Hunter Biden's laptop has no bearing on whether or not DOGE has uncovered any fraud. Nor does an argument of Joe Biden's mental health or who leaked information about damage from the attack on Iran's nuclear facility. It's all deflection.

[flockofseagulls104]

No counter evidence?

How about telling us that Hunter's laptop was Russian disinfo right before the election? How about lying to us about Joe's mental health? How about editing Kamala's answers to make her look coherent? How about referring to a leaked low-level assessment of the Iran nuclear damage as another attempt to discredit trump? When will your side cut out the shit? Most of the country is on to you. Do something or propose something that is actually CONSTRUCTIVE for once, instead of destructive.

I repeat. No counter evidence. Whatever may or may not have been on Hunter Biden's laptop has no bearing on whether or not DOGE has uncovered any fraud. Nor does an argument of Joe Biden's mental health or who leaked information about damage from the attack on Iran's nuclear facility. It's all deflection.

Goes to relevance, credibility and patterns of behavior. Your sources of information have demonstrated extreme bias, inaccurate and slanderous reporting on anything related to this individual and unwillingness to correct their misreporting over many years. I have cited just a few examples of this. I could cite many, many more. Explain to me why I should believe any of your 'sources', sir.

[silverscreenselect]

Explain to me why I should believe any of your 'sources', sir.

You don't have to believe any of my sources. However, you do have to prove fraud, whether in a civil or criminal context. (Even in a civil context, you have to produce clear and convincing evidence of fraud.) What Trump and Musk have done is the equivalent of Joe McCarthy claiming he had the names of 57 Communists in the State Department in his notebook and then never producing the notebook.

Unless and until you show any evidence of new, substantial actual fraud unearthed by DOGE, I'm done with this discussion (as I should have been about three responses ago).

[mrkelley23]

I have, over the course of the past three months, composed seven responses to messages here in the Political Lounge. I spent time on them, documented sources, showed what I thought were convincing chains of reasoning and evidence. I let each of them simmer for about an hour, as I promised myself, before coming back to post them. In each case, when I was honest with myself, I had to admit they were at best snarky, and would convince no one. So I deleted them all.

I do not regret those actions.

[Beebs52]

This link shows a bunch of bad doers in the medicare etc billing arena. Some are from Spring/The Woodlands, podiatry. How the FUCK do you bill 90 million in fraudulent claims without someone noticing before now?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdtx/pr/ne ... d-takedown

Did you not see the media (and thus average voter) rail against Musk and his DOGE team? The left, swampy Republicans, and thus the media, don't want controls, just give-a-ways (for votes). If some of your money falls through the cracks, it's a cost of doing business.

Hmmm. This sounds like an incredibly intricate, difficult case to make. I wonder when DOJ started its investigation?

No snark here. I would imagine administration was briefed on this particular morass. Perhaps it contributed as one impetus for doje stuff.

[flockofseagulls104]

Explain to me why I should believe any of your 'sources', sir.

You don't have to believe any of my sources. However, you do have to prove fraud, whether in a civil or criminal context. (Even in a civil context, you have to produce clear and convincing evidence of fraud.) What Trump and Musk have done is the equivalent of Joe McCarthy claiming he had the names of 57 Communists in the State Department in his notebook and then never producing the notebook.

Unless and until you show any evidence of new, substantial actual fraud unearthed by DOGE, I'm done with this discussion (as I should have been about three responses ago).

Oh, poor baby.

Here's just from June.
https://x.com/DOGE/status/1940544139680272837

https://x.com/DOGE/status/1938215636003389489

https://x.com/DOGE/status/1933380569326629276

https://x.com/DOGE/status/1933249138998829216

https://x.com/DOGE/status/1932259460128579718

https://x.com/DOGE/status/1931120527806280122

https://x.com/DOGE/status/1931040711467774403

https://x.com/DOGE/status/1930109883921084536

https://x.com/DOGE/status/1929040977404014855

[mrkelley23]

Did you not see the media (and thus average voter) rail against Musk and his DOGE team? The left, swampy Republicans, and thus the media, don't want controls, just give-a-ways (for votes). If some of your money falls through the cracks, it's a cost of doing business.

Hmmm. This sounds like an incredibly intricate, difficult case to make. I wonder when DOJ started its investigation?

No snark here. I would imagine administration was briefed on this particular morass. Perhaps it contributed as one impetus for doje stuff.

What prompted this was BiT's post, saying that "the left, swamp Repubs, blah blah blah" weren't interested in fixing the fraud. This investigation was begun in 2023, under the Biden DOJ, and most of the heavy lifting was done during that administration. It bothers me when the Trump administration continually tries to take credit for things that should really be duly credited to both sides.

[mrkelley23]

Hmmm. This sounds like an incredibly intricate, difficult case to make. I wonder when DOJ started its investigation?

No snark here. I would imagine administration was briefed on this particular morass. Perhaps it contributed as one impetus for doje stuff.

What prompted this was BiT's post, saying that "the left, swamp Repubs, blah blah blah" weren't interested in fixing the fraud. This investigation was begun in 2023, under the Biden DOJ, and most of the heavy lifting was done during that administration. It bothers me when the Trump administration continually tries to take credit for things that should really be duly credited to both sides.

And in fairness, I should also point out that the Biden administration continued many of the policies begun under Trump 1.0, and never gave credit there either, e.g. tariffs, etc.

[silverscreenselect]

Oh, poor baby.

Here's just from June.

I didn't see any examples of fraud there. Leaving aside all the evidence that DOGE claims of "savings" are in many cases, overly optimistic maximum estimates, sheer guesses, inaccuracies, gross exaggerations, filled with math errors, contracts that were expiring or had otherwise already been scheduled for termination or others that were legally non-cancellable due to contractual provisions, most of what is labeled "waste" is a difference of opinion as to what we should be spending money on. Many people feel that providing aid to combat famine in third-world countries is a worthy expenditure of US funds; others do not. Similarly helping fund Boys and Girls Clubs in this country is not considered a proper use of funds by some. That doesn't mean that the spending is "wasteful" in the sense most people think of waste.

[Beebs52]

No snark here. I would imagine administration was briefed on this particular morass. Perhaps it contributed as one impetus for doje stuff.

What prompted this was BiT's post, saying that "the left, swamp Repubs, blah blah blah" weren't interested in fixing the fraud. This investigation was begun in 2023, under the Biden DOJ, and most of the heavy lifting was done during that administration. It bothers me when the Trump administration continually tries to take credit for things that should really be duly credited to both sides.

And in fairness, I should also point out that the Biden administration continued many of the policies begun under Trump 1.0, and never gave credit there either, e.g. tariffs, etc.

Thank you. As if any prezzes credit their predecessors. Snort

[Bob Juch]

This link shows a bunch of bad doers in the medicare etc billing arena. Some are from Spring/The Woodlands, podiatry. How the FUCK do you bill 90 million in fraudulent claims without someone noticing before now?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdtx/pr/ne ... d-takedown

Did you not see the media (and thus average voter) rail against Musk and his DOGE team? The left, swampy Republicans, and thus the media, don't want controls, just give-a-ways (for votes). If some of your money falls through the cracks, it's a cost of doing business.

How does reducing the number of government employees who detect and prosecute fraud help?

[flockofseagulls104]

Oh, poor baby.

Here's just from June.

I didn't see any examples of fraud there. Leaving aside all the evidence that DOGE claims of "savings" are in many cases, overly optimistic maximum estimates, sheer guesses, inaccuracies, gross exaggerations, filled with math errors, contracts that were expiring or had otherwise already been scheduled for termination or others that were legally non-cancellable due to contractual provisions, most of what is labeled "waste" is a difference of opinion as to what we should be spending money on. Many people feel that providing aid to combat famine in third-world countries is a worthy expenditure of US funds; others do not. Similarly helping fund Boys and Girls Clubs in this country is not considered a proper use of funds by some. That doesn't mean that the spending is "wasteful" in the sense most people think of waste.

Oh, of course YOU don't see any examples of fraud there. It could never happen that anyone would find a way to cheat our government.

DOGE must be lying about 110+ year olds collecting unemployment checks.

After all, it cannot possibly be fraud, since there are 881 people over 114 years old on the Georgia voter roll (want the list? I can give it to you), and that list is the cleanest in the country, according to our SOS, Brad Rattensperger. And shit, he's a Republican*, so he must know! If Brad says these people can vote, then they damn well should be paid unemployment, right. And Social Security too!



Damn, SSS, how dare I insinuate there's any fraud in the government? $2XX Million for some consultant or other in Exlaxistan to advise them the best way to get shit on a stick is genuine and unquestionably a legitimate and vital use of taxpayer money. It's not fraud. Just a difference of opinion.

Are you really this dense, SSS, or do you just pretend?

*(UPDATE: Brad can't use the "republican" designation anymore. The delegates to the State Convention threw him out of the Republican Party).

[silverscreenselect]

Oh, of course YOU don't see any examples of fraud there. It could never happen that anyone would find a way to cheat our government.

Doge unemployment ‘fraud’ discoveries are old finds from Biden era, experts say

In a series of late-night posts on X last week, Elon Musk and his so-called “department of government efficiency” revealed the seemingly startling findings of their “initial survey” into unemployment benefits. They cited examples of claimants who were deceased, between one and five years old, or not born yet. They even cited one case of someone with a listed birthday in 2154 allegedly claiming $41,000.

But there was, in reality, a “sanity check” of unemployment claims years before Doge launched its blitz of the federal government – including under Joe Biden. People previously involved with the process say Doge’s claims are lifted from it. “They’re coming up like they uncovered something brand-new,” Andrew Stettner, who served as the director of unemployment insurance modernization at the US Department of Labor in the Biden administration, told the Guardian. “Going back in 2020 to say there was a lot of fraud – that’s the definition of old news.” Though Doge and Musk failed to cite the survey, or the agency it came from, the US Department of Labor’s office of inspector general is tasked with auditing state unemployment benefit systems. “They got some access to data from the Department of Labor and office of inspector general, and are trying to make conclusions without doing a full audit or understanding the content,” said Stettner.

Elizabeth Pancotti, managing director of policy and advocacy at the economic thinktank Groundwork Collaborative, said: “What you have is the issue of an outside person who doesn’t know anything coming in and claiming that everything’s broken. The public should be really skeptical of Elon Musk’s claims.“For the most part, he and his gaggle of 20-year-olds are going to these federal agencies of staff who have been there for five, 10, 15, 20 years working on these programs,” added Pancotti. “For the most part, these programs work as intended. “And now you have people coming in, spending five minutes looking at them and claiming that there’s widespread fraud, or they’re broken or they could be fixed in these ways.”

“This is a risk the department has already known about,” Stettner explained. “It’s already been written about. The department has put in additional cross-checks through our department integrity data analysis to flag these claims. Under the Biden administration, $2bn was allocated to state unemployment systems to improve fraud prevention and detection.

The office of inspector general at the US Department of Labor under the Biden administration had already identified the potential fraud of unemployment insurance from March 2020 to April 2022 in areas such as multi-state claims, deceased persons, federal prisoners, claims from people under the age of 14 or claims from those older than 100, or the use of suspicious emails used in claims. More than 2,000 convictions were secured following work by the office from April 2020 to January 2025, resulting in recovered funds of $1.1bn.

To sum up, this fraud largely occurred under Biden and was detected and often prosecuted. They also implemented additional fraud detection and prevention procedures. Biden did a better job of detecting and prosecuting fraud than occurred under Trump 45. To the extent that any new fraud occurred between January and April 2025, it's fair to assume the same fraud detection safeguards that were in place would detect those too.

[Beebs52]

"Biden did a better job of detecting and prosecuting fraud than occurred under Trump 45"

Oh. Okay

[flockofseagulls104]

The Guardian and 'experts'?

Where do you find the gall to be so publicly obtuse?

[silverscreenselect]

The Guardian and 'experts'?

Where do you find the gall to be so publicly obtuse?

Andrew Stettner: Former Director Office of Unemployment Insurance Modernization, Department of Labor; Deputy Director for Policy, Office of UI Modernization

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-stettner-84812a9/

Elizabeth Pancotti: Former Labor Policy Director, United States Senate; Senior Budget Analyst, United States Senate

https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-p ... 7027b21a3/

US Department of Labor Alert Memorandum 9/25/2023: "The purpose of this memorandum is to alert the Employment and Training Administration (ETA) to a concern the Office of Inspector General (OIG) has determined needs immediate attention. The OIG has identified nearly $1.3 billion in potentially fraudulent unemployment insurance (UI) payments made during the pandemic in two high-risk age categories, to individuals with Social Security numbers: (1) of children under the age of 14 and (2) of elderly persons 100 years of age or older. The OIG previously identified more than $45.6 billion in potentially fraudulent UI pandemic benefits paid in four other high-risk areas.This memorandum builds on our previous work, identifying additional risk within state UI claims data for agency action."

https://www.oig.dol.gov/public/reports/ ... 03-315.pdf

US DOL Memorandum 9/6/2023: "Many of the claims identified in [the draft of the 9/25/2023 memorandum] were not payments to individuals over 100 years of age, but rather “pseudo records” of previously identified fraudulent claims, where the date of birth was changed significantly to help the state identify these records and protect innocent victims from having future claims denied.

https://www.oig.dol.gov/public/reports/ ... 3-315x.pdf

US DOL Office of Inspector General 1/8/2025: More Than 2,000 Individuals Charged for Unemployment Insurance Fraud Since the COVID-19 Pandemic Began: "Inspector General Larry D. Turner of the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) today announced that the Office of Inspector General’s (OIG) efforts to combat unemployment insurance (UI) fraud have resulted in over 2,000 individuals being charged with crimes since the COVID-19 pandemic began in March 2020."

https://www.oig.dol.gov/public/Press%20 ... 5_0108.pdf

Whenever Flock is challenged by actual documentation that disproves his contentions, he resorts to his old standby of shouting variations of "Fake News" while ignoring that his own sources are woefully inadequate. Flock's DOGE wizards obviously got their "scoop" from the same sources where I got mine, various DOL public documents. Admittedly, I had a bit of an advantage having the benefit of the Guardian's prior research, but I feel confident that I could have found the information on my own by myself with at most a few hours of research. There's a lot more interesting information in the memos I cited if anyone is interested (which I'm sure Flock isn't since it all disproves his neat little DOGE claims).

It's no surprise that fraudulent unemployment insurance claims skyrocketed during the COVID pandemic when a lot of people were desperate for money.

[flockofseagulls104]

So what is your overall point, sss? There is no fraud in the federal government? Go for it.
That's the argument you want to have after all the stuff that has happened even in just the past two weeks? Is that all you got?

Pretty wide and very shallow.