Question re war

[Beebs52]

I think we should pray for the administration to do what's most expeditious for our country, NATO and Ukraine.

[Bob Juch]

I think we should pray for the administration to do what's most expeditious for our country, NATO and Ukraine.

Sanctions are not immediately effective.

[Bob78164]

I think we should pray for the administration to do what's most expeditious for our country, NATO and Ukraine.

The most effective policies available to us (sanctions) will certainly come with a price that each and every one of us will feel. Each of us will have to answer the question: Are we, personally, willing to pay the price in higher energy costs or inflation that Russia's pushback will inevitably cause us? The answer to that question, much more than prayer, will help determine America's course through this conflict. --Bob

[Spock]

I do know one thing that I would not have done. I would not have done everything in my power from the first moments of my administration (as the Biden Admin did)to shut down domestic oil and gas production thus raising oil prices and enriching a Petro-state (Russia) and giving Putin more foreign power flexibility.

Apparently you've missed the news that the United States has achieved energy independence. In other words, you have your facts wrong. Again. --Bob

Bob, did you read this? I certainly hope if you ever get to argue a case in a trial you don't do something like this..

That had swung to a 650,000 barrel per day surplus in 2020, and preliminary numbers for 2021 show trade pretty much in balance last year.

Let me summarize for you....during Trump (2020) we had a surplus and crossed that "energy independent line, fairly significantly. Now in 2021, yes we're still energy independent but we are slipping back to the days we weren't under Biden. Went from a 650,000 bpd surplus to break even.

The one thing that saves United States oil and gas production from those of Bob#'s ilk within the Biden Admin who have been using everything in their power to handicap the industry from the first moments of the Biden Admin is that so much of our production comes from private lands and it is thus harder to shut down.

In the first moments of the Biden Administration, they went hard after the low-hanging fruit by shutting down pipelines and federal oil and gas leasing. Thank God that so much of our production is on private lands and thus harder for the Bob#'s ilk within the Biden Admin to shut down.

[Bob78164]

Let me summarize for you....during Trump (2020) we had a surplus and crossed that "energy independent line, fairly significantly. Now in 2021, yes we're still energy independent but we are slipping back to the days we weren't under Biden. Went from a 650,000 bpd surplus to break even.

Seems to me I remember that something occurred in 2020 that slowed down our economy, and with it, our energy needs. Don't tell me what, it'll come to me . . . . --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

Although the devil is in the details which understandably Biden did not go into in his speech but will presumably be laid out in more detail in subsequent press releases, I was disappointed by what seemed like relatively moderate sanctions. But it was obviously clear that to a large extent, Biden was hemmed in by how far the NATO allies were willing to go, especially with the SWIFT system. I wasn't disappointed by the lack of sanctions against Putin himself. He's got enough money to last ten lifetimes and won't be moved by the thought of losing some of it.

My gut feel is that the ultimate goal here is regime change in Moscow by putting pressure on those around Putin. I've recently read and reviewed a book about the runup to the Third Reich in the late 1930s, and there was a substantial resistance movement to Hitler at that time. What eventually thwarted them was the lack of any real support from specifically Great Britain. If we've got that sort of back-back-back channel negotiations going on, nobody is going to admit it.

We also clearly have a lot of inside information about Russian government plans and that probably includes details regarding troop movements. Relaying that to the Ukrainians will make the occupation that much more painful to the Russians in terms of manpower and equipment losses.

[wbtravis007]

Apparently you've missed the news that the United States has achieved energy independence. In other words, you have your facts wrong. Again. --Bob

Bob, did you read this? I certainly hope if you ever get to argue a case in a trial you don't do something like this..

That had swung to a 650,000 barrel per day surplus in 2020, and preliminary numbers for 2021 show trade pretty much in balance last year.

Let me summarize for you....during Trump (2020) we had a surplus and crossed that "energy independent line, fairly significantly. Now in 2021, yes we're still energy independent but we are slipping back to the days we weren't under Biden. Went from a 650,000 bpd surplus to break even.

The one thing that saves United States oil and gas production from those of Bob#'s ilk within the Biden Admin who have been using everything in their power to handicap the industry from the first moments of the Biden Admin is that so much of our production comes from private lands and it is thus harder to shut down.

In the first moments of the Biden Administration, they went hard after the low-hanging fruit by shutting down pipelines and federal oil and gas leasing. Thank God that so much of our production is on private lands and thus harder for the Bob#'s ilk within the Biden Admin to shut down.

Halted new leases on public lands. Any existing leases or land held by production were not affected. Anybody happen to know an estimate of how many more barrels or MCF's would have been produced under "new leases" by now? Or how much the production of oil or gas has been affected by the pipeline decisions? I don't, but I'd be very surprised if those estimates would amount to enough to materially impact the price of oil or natural gas today.

[Spock]

Bob, did you read this? I certainly hope if you ever get to argue a case in a trial you don't do something like this..



Let me summarize for you....during Trump (2020) we had a surplus and crossed that "energy independent line, fairly significantly. Now in 2021, yes we're still energy independent but we are slipping back to the days we weren't under Biden. Went from a 650,000 bpd surplus to break even.

The one thing that saves United States oil and gas production from those of Bob#'s ilk within the Biden Admin who have been using everything in their power to handicap the industry from the first moments of the Biden Admin is that so much of our production comes from private lands and it is thus harder to shut down.

In the first moments of the Biden Administration, they went hard after the low-hanging fruit by shutting down pipelines and federal oil and gas leasing. Thank God that so much of our production is on private lands and thus harder for the Bob#'s ilk within the Biden Admin to shut down.

Halted new leases on public lands. Any existing leases or land held by production were not affected. Anybody happen to know an estimate of how many more barrels or MCF's would have been produced under "new leases" by now? Or how much the production of oil or gas has been affected by the pipeline decisions? I don't, but I'd be very surprised if those estimates would amount to enough to materially impact the price of oil or natural gas today.

Oh, I forgot about Biden's initial nominee for the Comptroller of the Currency who advocated that Oil and Gas companies be driven to bankruptcy. While I believe her nomination was withdrawn, it shows the attitude toward oil and gas production within the Biden Admin. And no. These weren't ancient comments, they were from February 2021 (I think).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... krupt.html

[kroxquo]

I hate to be a doomsayer, but I think Welensky has less than a week to live.

[Beebs52]

I hate to be a doomsayer, but I think Welensky has less than a week to live.

Zelensky?

[Spock]

I hate to be a doomsayer, but I think Welensky has less than a week to live.

Zelensky?

Zelensky is apparently lashing out at the West as he realizes they are fighting alone.

>>>""We are left alone in defense of our state. Who is ready to fight with us? I don’t see it. Who is ready to guarantee Ukraine’s accession to Nato? Everyone is afraid," added Zelensky.

"I asked the 27 leaders of Europe whether Ukraine should be in Nato. I asked directly. They are all afraid. And we are not afraid," he said."<<<<

I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and I figure in the heat of the moment he forgot about the support of people like SSS and the Bobs who have spent years talking tough about Putin/Trump on obscure internet message boreds. As time goes by, he will remember they are in his corner.

[kroxquo]

I hate to be a doomsayer, but I think Welensky has less than a week to live.

Zelensky?

D'oh!

[Estonut]

If Donny were still in office, the Russian Army would already be camped out in Kyiv with Donny sending Putin fanboy messages and the European response (absent American leadership) in total disarray.

The Russians had 4 years under Trump to get to Kyiv, yet they didn't move any troops until Biden took over. They most likely decided to invade once they saw how Biden handled the situation in Afghanistan.

I’m curious about what you think Trump would be doing now or that Putin might have thought that he would do that would have deterred him. Conventional war? Nuclear? Or something else that I’m not thinking of? What would you be in favor of doing or threatening?

Trump kept Putin from invading Ukraine by sanctioning Nord Stream 2:
Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline

It pissed off the Germans at the time.

Then, Biden removed said sanctions:
U.S. waives sanctions on Nord Stream 2 as Biden seeks to mend Europe ties

Russia's state energy company, Gazprom (GAZP.MM), and its Western partners are racing to finish the pipeline to send natural gas under the Baltic Sea. The project, now about 95% complete, would bypass Ukraine, depriving it of lucrative transit fees and potentially undermining its struggle against Russian aggression.

Now, Biden reinstated said sanctions:
Biden imposes Nord Stream 2 sanctions

President Biden on Wednesday announced sanctions against the company behind a controversial Russian natural gas pipeline in response to Moscow's decision to send troops into eastern Ukraine.

Biden said in a statement that his administration would put sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG, the parent company of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, and its corporate officers.

"These steps are another piece of our initial tranche of sanctions in response to Russia’s actions in Ukraine. As I have made clear, we will not hesitate to take further steps if Russia continues to escalate," Biden said.

Last year, the Biden administration waived sanctions on the pipeline — generating pushback from Democrats and Republicans alike, who said it should take a harder line on Russia.

The administration’s decision to waive sanctions on the pipeline was widely viewed as a move meant to appease Germany after relations faltered under the previous Trump administration.

But following Russia's incursion into breakaway regions in Ukraine this week, Germany also turned against the pipeline. On Tuesday, it announced that it would block its certification.

Now, Germany is with us. I'm not one who believes that Biden's flip-flop makes him appear stronger to our adversaries.

[Spock]

Glad to see the Biden Administration remains focused on its #1 priority. Handicapping US Oil and Gas production.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=winp-st

Some may quibble with my designation as its #1 priority, but given their actions within the first moments of the administration I am driven to believe that is their #1 priority.

[Bob78164]

Glad to see the Biden Administration remains focused on its #1 priority. Handicapping US Oil and Gas production.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=winp-st

Some may quibble with my designation as its #1 priority, but given their actions within the first moments of the administration I am driven to believe that is their #1 priority.

I'm glad to see the Biden Administration is actually trying to do something about climate change. We owe our kids and grandkids a livable planet. And thanks to fossil-fuel apologists, mostly within the Republican Party, we're in the process of welching on that debt.

That pisses me off to no end. But that's nothing compared to how my kid, who will have to live with the results long after I'm gone, feels about it. That will probably have political consequences when the states that have contributed the most to climate change, particularly politically, also bear the brunt of the flooding. The rest of the country may not be as willing as it once was to support disaster relief. Particularly when those states' elected representatives are already casting votes against disaster relief for other areas. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

Ukrainian ambassador says Russian platoon surrendered to Ukrainian forces
BY JOSEPH CHOI

Ukrainian Ambassador to the U.S. Oksana Markarova said on Thursday that a platoon of Russian soldiers surrendered to the Ukrainian military, saying they "didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians."

At a press briefing, Markarova said, "Just before I came here, we got information from our chief commander that one of the platoons of the 74th motorized brigade from Kemerovo Oblast surrendered."
"They didn't know that they were brought to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians. They thought they were doing something else there," she added.

[wbtravis007]

The Russians had 4 years under Trump to get to Kyiv, yet they didn't move any troops until Biden took over. They most likely decided to invade once they saw how Biden handled the situation in Afghanistan.

I’m curious about what you think Trump would be doing now or that Putin might have thought that he would do that would have deterred him. Conventional war? Nuclear? Or something else that I’m not thinking of? What would you be in favor of doing or threatening?

Trump kept Putin from invading Ukraine by sanctioning Nord Stream 2:
Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline

It pissed off the Germans at the time.

Then, Biden removed said sanctions:
U.S. waives sanctions on Nord Stream 2 as Biden seeks to mend Europe ties

Russia's state energy company, Gazprom (GAZP.MM), and its Western partners are racing to finish the pipeline to send natural gas under the Baltic Sea. The project, now about 95% complete, would bypass Ukraine, depriving it of lucrative transit fees and potentially undermining its struggle against Russian aggression.

Now, Biden reinstated said sanctions:
Biden imposes Nord Stream 2 sanctions

President Biden on Wednesday announced sanctions against the company behind a controversial Russian natural gas pipeline in response to Moscow's decision to send troops into eastern Ukraine.

Biden said in a statement that his administration would put sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG, the parent company of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, and its corporate officers.

"These steps are another piece of our initial tranche of sanctions in response to Russia’s actions in Ukraine. As I have made clear, we will not hesitate to take further steps if Russia continues to escalate," Biden said.

Last year, the Biden administration waived sanctions on the pipeline — generating pushback from Democrats and Republicans alike, who said it should take a harder line on Russia.

The administration’s decision to waive sanctions on the pipeline was widely viewed as a move meant to appease Germany after relations faltered under the previous Trump administration.

But following Russia's incursion into breakaway regions in Ukraine this week, Germany also turned against the pipeline. On Tuesday, it announced that it would block its certification.

Now, Germany is with us. I'm not one who believes that Biden's flip-flop makes him appear stronger to our adversaries.

This doesn't really answer the question that I posed, but I'll ask it again in the other thread that I started, in response to your comments posted in that thread last night.

What you appear to be asserting is that Biden projected weakness compared to Trump, and that that is what motivated Putin to make this move now, instead of while Trump was president. That's debatable, but it requires trying to get into Putin's head -- the kind of thing that you usually seem more likely to criticize others for doing instead of indulging in such speculation yourself. I'm not going to bother trying to detail all of the reasons that I would disagree with your conclusion, but I will just say that I think that a more plausible explanation of Putin's timing is that he thought that he would be able to achieve his goals with less effort and cost with Trump in office, and that Trump's defeat required a different approach. That would better explain why he undertook all of those efforts to influence the election in Trump's favor.

As I said, I'll repeat my question here in the other thread. Just a couple of other quick points here regarding your comments about the pipeline.

You say:
Trump kept Putin from invading Ukraine by sanctioning Nord Stream 2: (and then posted your link).

First, I honestly have no idea what you're trying to suggest as the basis of that conclusion -- meaning, how would the imposition of the sanctions have anything to do with that result?

Second, Trump did not veto the bi-partisan legislation passed by Congress imposing those sanctions, so if you want to call them Trump's sanctions, so be it. Anyway, if anything, it would seem to me to be more logical to suggest that sanctions in place would be less of a deterrent to an invasion of Ukrane than the threat of the re-imposition of those sanctions once they were relaxed.

[Bob78164]

In the first moments of the Biden Administration, they went hard after the low-hanging fruit by shutting down pipelines and federal oil and gas leasing. Thank God that so much of our production is on private lands and thus harder for the Bob#'s ilk within the Biden Admin to shut down.

I suspected as much, but now I know. Once again, you have your facts wrong, probably because you're still getting them from Fox propaganda. As it happens, President Biden's Administration has approved drilling permits on public lands at a rate faster than Donny did, an average of approximately 100 extra approvals per month.

President Biden's actions (which in any event haven't taken effect) apply to new leases, not to new drilling permits on existing leases. It takes years to go from a lease to actual extraction. That's years in which we can continue to transition from a fossil-fuel economy that has become increasingly unsustainable.

By the way, it's also utterly infeasible to export American natural gas (the primary import that Europe needs from Russia) to Europe. The infrastructure simply doesn't exist to do so on the necessary scale, and it would take years to create it, by which time Europe will likely have taken significant steps toward weaning itself from that dependence. --Bob

[Beebs52]

I think it might already?

https://www.dieselgasturbine.com/news/u ... he%20month.

[Bob Juch]

I’m curious about what you think Trump would be doing now or that Putin might have thought that he would do that would have deterred him. Conventional war? Nuclear? Or something else that I’m not thinking of? What would you be in favor of doing or threatening?

Trump kept Putin from invading Ukraine by sanctioning Nord Stream 2:
Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline

It pissed off the Germans at the time.

Then, Biden removed said sanctions:
U.S. waives sanctions on Nord Stream 2 as Biden seeks to mend Europe ties

Russia's state energy company, Gazprom (GAZP.MM), and its Western partners are racing to finish the pipeline to send natural gas under the Baltic Sea. The project, now about 95% complete, would bypass Ukraine, depriving it of lucrative transit fees and potentially undermining its struggle against Russian aggression.

Now, Biden reinstated said sanctions:
Biden imposes Nord Stream 2 sanctions

President Biden on Wednesday announced sanctions against the company behind a controversial Russian natural gas pipeline in response to Moscow's decision to send troops into eastern Ukraine.

Biden said in a statement that his administration would put sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG, the parent company of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, and its corporate officers.

"These steps are another piece of our initial tranche of sanctions in response to Russia’s actions in Ukraine. As I have made clear, we will not hesitate to take further steps if Russia continues to escalate," Biden said.

Last year, the Biden administration waived sanctions on the pipeline — generating pushback from Democrats and Republicans alike, who said it should take a harder line on Russia.

The administration’s decision to waive sanctions on the pipeline was widely viewed as a move meant to appease Germany after relations faltered under the previous Trump administration.

But following Russia's incursion into breakaway regions in Ukraine this week, Germany also turned against the pipeline. On Tuesday, it announced that it would block its certification.

Now, Germany is with us. I'm not one who believes that Biden's flip-flop makes him appear stronger to our adversaries.

This doesn't really answer the question that I posed, but I'll ask it again in the other thread that I started, in response to your comments posted in that thread last night.

What you appear to be asserting is that Biden projected weakness compared to Trump, and that that is what motivated Putin to make this move now, instead of while Trump was president. That's debatable, but it requires trying to get into Putin's head -- the kind of thing that you usually seem more likely to criticize others for doing instead of indulging in such speculation yourself. I'm not going to bother trying to detail all of the reasons that I would disagree with your conclusion, but I will just say that I think that a more plausible explanation of Putin's timing is that he thought that he would be able to achieve his goals with less effort and cost with Trump in office, and that Trump's defeat required a different approach. That would better explain why he undertook all of those efforts to influence the election in Trump's favor.

As I said, I'll repeat my question here in the other thread. Just a couple of other quick points here regarding your comments about the pipeline.

You say:
Trump kept Putin from invading Ukraine by sanctioning Nord Stream 2: (and then posted your link).

First, I honestly have no idea what you're trying to suggest as the basis of that conclusion -- meaning, how would the imposition of the sanctions have anything to do with that result?

Second, Trump did not veto the bi-partisan legislation passed by Congress imposing those sanctions, so if you want to call them Trump's sanctions, so be it. Anyway, if anything, it would seem to me to be more logical to suggest that sanctions in place would be less of a deterrent to an invasion of Ukrane than the threat of the re-imposition of those sanctions once they were relaxed.

Fact-check: Did Trump, Biden sanction Russia?

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/po ... 735826001/

Kayleigh McEnany: “President Trump sanctioned Russia. President Biden gave them a pipeline.”

PolitiFact's ruling: Mostly False

[Bob78164]

I think it might already?

https://www.dieselgasturbine.com/news/u ... he%20month.

Not on the scale they currently need. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

One of my clients is a major U.S. natural gas supplier. Today they sent out a company-wide alert saying they were being targeted by malware and reiterated the warning about opening suspicious emails and clicking on web links.

[Beebs52]

I think it might already?

https://www.dieselgasturbine.com/news/u ... he%20month.

Not on the scale they currently need. --Bob

By the way, it's also utterly infeasible to export American natural gas (the primary import that Europe needs from Russia) to Europe
I guess you need to qualify and quantify your response.

[Bob78164]

I think it might already?

https://www.dieselgasturbine.com/news/u ... he%20month.

Not on the scale they currently need. --Bob

By the way, it's also utterly infeasible to export American natural gas (the primary import that Europe needs from Russia) to Europe
I guess you need to qualify and quantify your response.

Read my next sentence. --Bob

[Bob Juch]