This is just wrong

[silverscreenselect]

The existence of a single case of someone who claims to have changed their orientation destroys the notion of immutability.

What people claim and what can be scientifically demonstrated are two different things. I can claim I can fly when no one's watching but that doesn't change the laws of physics.

The problem is that sexual "orientation" isn't an all or nothing situation. Various people can be attracted to both sexes in different degrees. Gay people can live heterosexual lives... they've done so for centuries. That doesn't change what or who physically stimulates them and to what extent.

[TheCalvinator24]

Of course, the whole discussion has ignored the fact that there is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is a genetically-determined characteristic in the first place. Until and unless a genetic source can be proved, the entire "born gay" position is based on nothing more than anecdotal claims, as well.

mrkelley, I disagree that anyone has ever changed his or her race or gender (although sex is really the correct term anyway).

One can change the external features that we often associate with a particular sex, but quite simply, crafting a faux-penis does not turn a woman into a man and likewise lopping off a penis and crafting a faux-vagina does not turn a man into a woman.

[Bob78164]

Of course, the whole discussion has ignored the fact that there is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is a genetically-determined characteristic in the first place. Until and unless a genetic source can be proved, the entire "born gay" position is based on nothing more than anecdotal claims, as well.

When did you make the choice to be interested in women instead of men? Because if people aren't born gay, they're not born straight either. --Bob

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

RULE 603. OATH OR AFFIRMATION TO TESTIFY TRUTHFULLY

Before testifying, a witness must give an oath or affirmation to testify truthfully. It must be in a form designed to impress that duty on the witness’s conscience.

Notes

(Pub. L. 93–595, §1, Jan. 2, 1975, 88 Stat. 1934; Mar. 2, 1987, eff. Oct. 1, 1987; Apr. 26, 2011, eff. Dec. 1, 2011.)

Notes of Advisory Committee on Proposed Rules

The rule is designed to afford the flexibility required in dealing with religious adults, atheists, conscientious objectors, mental defectives, and children. Affirmation is simply a solemn undertaking to tell the truth; no special verbal formula is required. As is true generally, affirmation is recognized by federal law. “Oath” includes affirmation, 1 U.S.C. §1; judges and clerks may administer oaths and affirmations, 28 U.S.C. §§459, 953; and affirmations are acceptable in lieu of oaths under Rule 43(d) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Perjury by a witness is a crime, 18 U.S.C. §1621.

RULE 610. RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OR OPINIONS

Evidence of a witness’s religious beliefs or opinions is not admissible to attack or support the witness’s credibility.

Notes

(Pub. L. 93–595, §1, Jan. 2, 1975, 88 Stat. 1936; Mar. 2, 1987, eff. Oct. 1, 1987; Apr. 26, 2011, eff. Dec. 1, 2011.)

Notes of Advisory Committee on Proposed Rules

While the rule forecloses inquiry into the religious beliefs or opinions of a witness for the purpose of showing that his character for truthfulness is affected by their nature, an inquiry for the purpose of showing interest or bias because of them is not within the prohibition. Thus disclosure of affiliation with a church which is a party to the litigation would be allowable under the rule. Cf. Tucker v. Reil, 51 Ariz. 357, 77 P.2d 203 (1938). To the same effect, though less specifically worded, is California Evidence Code §789. See 3 Wigmore §936.

Since this started with a the oath of office, posted by a lawyer, I thought I would I would share some of the Federal Rules of Evidence adopted in 1975.

[BackInTex]

Because if people aren't born gay, they're not born straight either. --Bob

You're getting close.

[silverscreenselect]

Until and unless a genetic source can be proved, the entire "born gay" position is based on nothing more than anecdotal claims, as well.

Whether or not one is "born" gay is beside the point. The question is whether it's a quality that one can readily change. People who lose an arm or a leg aren't born that way either but once it happens, it can't be changed.

There are tests (primarily used with pederasts) that measure people's physiological reactions when subjected to certain stimuli (not just the obvious male one, but things like dilation of the eyes). People don't change their sexual orientation. Most people can choose with whom they will engage in sexual activity or enter into a marriage or marriage-like union (which isn't always the same thing as having sex with the other person). Because a lot of people are bisexual to a certain extent, they may find it easier to forego homosexual activities in favor of heterosexual ones, but the desires are still there. If they weren't, you wouldn't have all those conservative religious types who get caught with other guys.

[jarnon]

I researched the history of the enlistment oath, and found this informative article, written by an Air Force officer. In particular, it explains why "so help me God" was added in 1962 (shortly after "under God" was inserted in the Pledge of Allegiance).

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airc ... eskel.html

[Bob Juch]

Before testifying, a witness must give an oath or affirmation to testify truthfully. It must be in a form designed to impress that duty on the witness’s conscience.

So if the witness does not believe in God, swearing to God to tell the truth is not the proper form.

[elwoodblues]

I chose to be straight around the time that Farrah Fawcett poster came out.

[littlebeast13]

I chose to be straight around the time that Farrah Fawcett poster came out.

Just imagine if you had seen the Tino album first....



lb13

[elwoodblues]

I chose to be straight around the time that Farrah Fawcett poster came out.

Just imagine if you had seen the Tino album first....



lb13

Not that there's anything wrong with it...

[Bob78164]

I chose to be straight around the time that Farrah Fawcett poster came out.

Just imagine if you had seen the Tino album first....



lb13

Careful! Are you trying to get him to switch teams? --Bob

[Bob Juch]

I chose to be straight around the time that Farrah Fawcett poster came out.

I never knew it was in the closet.

[Bob78164]

The Air Force backed down. --Bob