Anthrax suspect
Antrax suspect 2
Update on Anthrax Attack suspect
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tanstaafl2
- Posts: 3494
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Update on Anthrax Attack suspect
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
~Mark Twain
Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...
~tanstaafl2
Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
Ne Illegitimi Carborundum
Cumann na gClann Uí Thighearnaigh
~Mark Twain
Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...
~tanstaafl2
Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
Ne Illegitimi Carborundum
Cumann na gClann Uí Thighearnaigh
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themanintheseersuckersuit
- Posts: 7634
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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silvercamaro
- Dog's Best Friend
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- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:45 am
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tanstaafl2
- Posts: 3494
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:45 pm
- Location: I dunno. Let me check Google maps.
He blended right in because it is a clear and concise description of many a fine federal employee. Take me for example...silvercamaro wrote:So if this guy was such a homicidal nut job, why didn't anybody notice it during the five years or so while government investigators were persecuting the previous suspect?
I remain somewhat dubious.
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
~Mark Twain
Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...
~tanstaafl2
Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
Ne Illegitimi Carborundum
Cumann na gClann Uí Thighearnaigh
~Mark Twain
Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...
~tanstaafl2
Nullum Gratuitum Prandium
Ne Illegitimi Carborundum
Cumann na gClann Uí Thighearnaigh
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VAdame
- Posts: 1877
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:42 am
- Location: da 'Burgh!
Hey -- I resemble that remark!tanstaafl2 wrote:He blended right in because it is a clear and concise description of many a fine federal employee. Take me for example...silvercamaro wrote:So if this guy was such a homicidal nut job, why didn't anybody notice it during the five years or so while government investigators were persecuting the previous suspect?
I remain somewhat dubious.
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silvercamaro
- Dog's Best Friend
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- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:45 am
I've been reading more about this over the weekend, and I'm increasingly bothered. The person quoted in early news stories about Ivins -- the person who declared him to be "homicidal" and "sociopathic", and the one originally described as "his therapist" or "his counselor" -- turns out to be a social worker.
Not a psychiatrist, nor even a psychologist, but a social worker.
Many social workers do good stuff, and the best ones aren't paid nearly enough, but there's no way that majoring in social work in college provides enough academic background or practical training to qualify one to diagnose psychiatric conditions.
Furthermore, the "DNA evidence" that supposedly links the anthrax spores to Ivins' lab offers no recognition that the lab never made powdered anthrax, as was present in the tainted letters, nor that 27 vials of anthrax had mysteriously been lost or stolen over a period of several years.
I maintain reasonable doubt that the man driven to suicide was the person guilty of the crime.
Not a psychiatrist, nor even a psychologist, but a social worker.
Many social workers do good stuff, and the best ones aren't paid nearly enough, but there's no way that majoring in social work in college provides enough academic background or practical training to qualify one to diagnose psychiatric conditions.
Furthermore, the "DNA evidence" that supposedly links the anthrax spores to Ivins' lab offers no recognition that the lab never made powdered anthrax, as was present in the tainted letters, nor that 27 vials of anthrax had mysteriously been lost or stolen over a period of several years.
I maintain reasonable doubt that the man driven to suicide was the person guilty of the crime.
Now generating the White Hot Glare of Righteousness on behalf of BBs everywhere.
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Bob Juch
- Posts: 27071
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Is it possible that the missing anthrax was powdered?silvercamaro wrote:I've been reading more about this over the weekend, and I'm increasingly bothered. The person quoted in early news stories about Ivins -- the person who declared him to be "homicidal" and "sociopathic", and the one originally described as "his therapist" or "his counselor" -- turns out to be a social worker.
Not a psychiatrist, nor even a psychologist, but a social worker.
Many social workers do good stuff, and the best ones aren't paid nearly enough, but there's no way that majoring in social work in college provides enough academic background or practical training to qualify one to diagnose psychiatric conditions.
Furthermore, the "DNA evidence" that supposedly links the anthrax spores to Ivins' lab offers no recognition that the lab never
made powdered anthrax, as was present in the tainted letters, nor that 27 vials of anthrax had mysteriously been lost or stolen over a period of several years.
I maintain reasonable doubt that the man driven to suicide was the person guilty of the crime.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
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silvercamaro
- Dog's Best Friend
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- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:45 am
Supposedly, that particular laboratory never had nor made powdered anthrax.Bob Juch wrote:
Is it possible that the missing anthrax was powdered?
Also, since the letters were mailed from Trenton, N.J. on different dates, Ivins seemingly would have had to drive roughly 400 miles to mail each one.
All of the known evidence against Ivins is circumstantial, coupled with the dubious statement of the social worker.
I'm not saying that anything is impossible, but to me it seems unlikely.
Now generating the White Hot Glare of Righteousness on behalf of BBs everywhere.
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Buffacuse
- Posts: 1797
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W/O going into much detail, I have a family member who knows Ivins and I remember hearing him described, years ago, as "very odd."
That does not make him a killer, but coming to a group therapy session and openly talking about a plan to kill people would have made ME go to the police.
Putting everything together, I do think he was involved. I am not convinced, however, that he acted alone. I would like to see handwriting analysis of the letters/envelopes sent during the attacks compared to Ivins'. To me, that would tie things up if they match--and if not, they have some more work to do.
That does not make him a killer, but coming to a group therapy session and openly talking about a plan to kill people would have made ME go to the police.
Putting everything together, I do think he was involved. I am not convinced, however, that he acted alone. I would like to see handwriting analysis of the letters/envelopes sent during the attacks compared to Ivins'. To me, that would tie things up if they match--and if not, they have some more work to do.
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silvercamaro
- Dog's Best Friend
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All of us are "very odd" according to somebody or another.Buffacuse wrote:W/O going into much detail, I have a family member who knows Ivins and I remember hearing him described, years ago, as "very odd."
That does not make him a killer, but coming to a group therapy session and openly talking about a plan to kill people would have made ME go to the police.
Putting everything together, I do think he was involved. I am not convinced, however, that he acted alone. I would like to see handwriting analysis of the letters/envelopes sent during the attacks compared to Ivins'. To me, that would tie things up if they match--and if not, they have some more work to do.
According to this news story --
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080805/ap_ ... estigation --
the social worker made her statement to a judge on July 24. This would be after multiple interviews with investigators. Is it possible that those interviews influenced her opinions greatly? If not, then why didn't she bother to report her conclusions much earlier? I have not heard any verification of Ivin's "plan to kill people" from any one else in that therapy group? Will we? I don't know. I just don't buy the whole story at this point.
I am not anti-government, by any means, but until we the public are offered more details, I will consider the possibility that the scientist was, in essence, hounded to death, even if that was not anyone's intention. If nothing else, his suicide provides a convenient way for investigators to close an unsolved case.
Now generating the White Hot Glare of Righteousness on behalf of BBs everywhere.
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themanintheseersuckersuit
- Posts: 7634
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Ivins was innocent from the WSJ
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
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mrkelley23
- Posts: 6560
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:48 pm
- Location: Somewhere between Bureaucracy and Despair
This one seems to stink much more than Vince Foster.themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:Ivins was innocent from the WSJ
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman
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Bob Juch
- Posts: 27071
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
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- Contact:
It's easy: he borrowed the equipment!themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:Ivins was innocent from the WSJ
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26027514/
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
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silvercamaro
- Dog's Best Friend
- Posts: 9608
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:45 am
Paragraph from the MSNBC story about regulations on security clearance:
"The Army issued final rules last week that would cover workers who act in an aggressive or threatening manner. Those employees would be denied access to toxic or lethal biological agents under the revised regulations. Other potentially disqualifying personality traits include 'arrogance, inflexibility, suspiciousness, hostility . . . and extreme moods or mood swings,' according to the document."
In one way or another, I'd guess that covers almost everyone around here.
"The Army issued final rules last week that would cover workers who act in an aggressive or threatening manner. Those employees would be denied access to toxic or lethal biological agents under the revised regulations. Other potentially disqualifying personality traits include 'arrogance, inflexibility, suspiciousness, hostility . . . and extreme moods or mood swings,' according to the document."
In one way or another, I'd guess that covers almost everyone around here.
Now generating the White Hot Glare of Righteousness on behalf of BBs everywhere.
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SportsFan68
- No Scritches!!!
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I had extreme hostility and mood swings weekend before last.silvercamaro wrote:Paragraph from the MSNBC story about regulations on security clearance:
"The Army issued final rules last week that would cover workers who act in an aggressive or threatening manner. Those employees would be denied access to toxic or lethal biological agents under the revised regulations. Other potentially disqualifying personality traits include 'arrogance, inflexibility, suspiciousness, hostility . . . and extreme moods or mood swings,' according to the document."
In one way or another, I'd guess that covers almost everyone around here.
Then I got outta downtown Denver traffic.
No wonder Hickenlooper is pushing a green Democratic National Convention. He wants everybody to get there any way possible except for cars or cabs into the convention area. Can't say I blame him...
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller