Manny To The Dodgers!?!?

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#1 Post by **littlebeast13** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:43 pm

Three way trade with Pittsburgh.

Manny to the Dodgers

Jason Bay to the Sawx

4 minor leaguers to Pittsburgh...

Don't know if it's official yet....

lb13

gsabc · #2 Post by **gsabc** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:52 pm

GBAGL. Try dogging it out there.

nitrah55 · #3 Post by **nitrah55** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:59 pm

It is now possible to pitch around David Ortiz.

This is like trading one and a half players.

5LD · #4 Post by **5LD** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:39 pm

I am 5littleducks. And I approve this trade.

Go Yankees!

T_Bone0806 · #5 Post by **T_Bone0806** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:53 pm

Poor Joe Torre.

Poor Poor Joe Torre.

His blood pressure just went up 75 points.

tanstaafl2 · #6 Post by **tanstaafl2** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:06 pm

5LD wrote:I am 5littleducks. And I approve this trade.

Go Yankees!

Go Rays!!!!

Hell, it could be the BJ's or the O's for all I care. Anybody but the BoSox or the Damnedyankees.

gsabc · #7 Post by **gsabc** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:22 pm

T_Bone0806 wrote:Poor Joe Torre.

Poor Poor Joe Torre.

His blood pressure just went up 75 points.

Nah. Manny will give the Dodgers two good months. He's playing for next year's contract now. Torre will know what he's getting, a rent-a-player to try to win the World Series this year.

Whatever the reason, Manny turned into Rajah, phoning it in because he felt slighted by management. Show him the money, and he'll suddenly snap out of it. Just watch. He'll hit another 25 homers this year, will run out every grounder, and use both hands in catching the fly balls hit his way. None of which would have happened if he stayed with the Red Sox.

gsabc · #8 Post by **gsabc** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:24 pm

nitrah55 wrote:It is now possible to pitch around David Ortiz.

This is like trading one and a half players.

Not necessarily. Stick Youkilis and Lowell around Manny as 3-4-5 hitters, and you ain't pitchin' around nobody. Maybe not the power, but you've certainly got the hits coming.

dodgersteve182 · #9 Post by **dodgersteve182** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:34 pm

http://tinyurl.com/6acj92

Wow! The first bona fide "slugger" the Dodgers have obtained since Jimmy Wynn! With the added humidity L.A. has been experiencing this summer, I wouldn't park in the preferred season parking lots in the outfield again! You might get your windshield broken by a homerun ball!

Freeway Series likely this year in SoCal! The Angels move into Fenway and boot Manny out, now we'll see if Petitte suffers a similar fate from the whopping they are giving him tonight. Yanks are getting desperate for sure along with the BoSox! I heard "Cash"man is looking south for new arms, no not Florida but Mexico. "Hey anyone named Fernando down here"? It's doubtful that someone from another country is going to rescue the Yanks this late in the season, and Pudge is running out of offensive prowess at this 11th hour of his career.

Jeemie · #10 Post by **Jeemie** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:51 pm

I think the Pirates made out quite well in this deal- four prospects- one of them a top 15 prospect and two others in the top 50- for Jason Bay, a decent, not great, player.

Then again, the third team that's wheeled in to facilitate the transfer of a star player from one team to another usually DOES make out well.

KillerTomato · #11 Post by **KillerTomato** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:01 pm

An open letter to the Pittsburgh Pirates:

I am a Pittsburgher.

I have been a fan of the Pittsburgh Pirates for 45 years.

I've seen some great teams, and some great players in my life pass through Forbes Field, and Three Rivers Stadium, and PNC Park. I've seen Bill Mazeroski, and Roberto Clemente, and Willie Stargel, and Manny Sanguillen, and Barry Bonds, and Bobby Bonilla all wear the Black and Gold. Not to mention about 100 other good-to-great players.

In the last 16 years, I've seen some truly awful Pirates teams go by. Year after year, we fans were told to bide our time. Every time we got a player with potential, by the end of July that player would head to some other team, and we'd get "prospects". "Relax," they said, "we need to build up our farm system, get some depth, get healthy....but look, these prospects are going to be GREAT for the Buccos! Give us time!"

So I gave you guys 16 years. And every time one of those great "prospects" actually DID pan out and become a good player, what did you do? You backloaded his contract, so that he became too damn expensive to keep; and you traded him for more "prospects." The fact is, the vast majority of these "prospects" never amounted to a hill of beans. And the ones who did never lasted long. Aramis Ramirez. Jason Schmidt. Oliver Perez. And just a few weeks ago, Xavier Nady. As soon as anyone we acquired -- "prospect" or proven player -- started to contribute, you traded to add "depth" to the farm system that never actually got deeper. And I still went to see the games. I spent money to sit in good seats, and money on dogs and beer, and even some money on "souvenirs".

Then you allowed Dave Littlefield to trade Rajai Davis (who isn't missed) for Matt Morris: an over-the-hill, struggling, incredibly expensive pitcher with zero potential to actually improve or add anything to the team. And we swallowed his $9.5 million salary when we let him go. We were 20 games under .500 at the time, and our total salary was just $35 million; what the hell was the thinking? But still, I went. I plunked down $20 or whatever, and $7 for beer and $5 for a dog that was first heated up on Opening Day.

And now, we've lost Jason Bay, so shortly after seeing Nady go. On the plus side, John Grabow is still in Black and Gold; that's not a very big plus side. But most importantly, you've trotted out the old "Relax, we need to rebuild our farm system!" chestnut again. Guess what? We no longer believe you. We're tired of sub-0.500 baseball. We're tired of seeing our team become just the AAA team for the rest of Major League Baseball. And we're tired of managment not realizing that all we really needed to avoid our 16th straight season under 0.500 wasn't more "prospects"...it was some solid pitching. Did we get any in either of our big trades? Nope. We got "prospects". So you wanna know how many games I'll see the rest of this season (I've seen a couple already)? The "prospects" of seeing me at PNC Park again this season, or next season, or any season until things turn around, aren't good.

KT, who may just become a White Sox fan for the rest of this year.

Jeemie · #12 Post by **Jeemie** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:11 pm

KT- I'm sorry- but this was a great trade for the Pirates.

They weren't going to win with Jason Bay and a barren farm system...they just might win without him.

To get four prospects- including one blue-chipper and two near blue-chippers- for a guy who still has problems hitting with runners in scoring position was nothing short of a steal.

I will agree that I'm not as fond of the Nady/Marte deal, but this one was a gem of a deal, and shows that, unlike Littlefield, Huntington actually has a plan (there's a reason the farm system never got better under Littlefield- he rarely traded for prospects- instead he traded for retreads).

KillerTomato · #13 Post by **KillerTomato** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:27 pm

Jeemie wrote: To get four prospects- including one blue-chipper and two near blue-chippers- for a guy who still has problems hitting with runners in scoring position was nothing short of a steal.

I will agree that I'm not as fond of the Nady/Marte deal, but this one was a gem of a deal, and shows that, unlike Littlefield, Huntington actually has a plan (there's a reason the farm system never got better under Littlefield- he rarely traded for prospects- instead he traded for retreads).

No, there was plenty of trading for prospects. Just none of them were any good, and if they were, they weren't here long. There was also plenty of trading for retreads, and none of them were any good either.

The problem is that we've been falling for the "Look! Prospects!" crap for too long. And yes, our farm system is execrable, but anyone who expects these four guys (or any other "prospects" the Buccos pick up) to either do well, or last in the Pirates system for more than 2 years is dreaming. I've sucked down that Kool-Aid for too long, and I refuse to partake any longer.

So while the trade looks good on paper, it'll most likely end up the same as every other trade: a bust. But the "prospects" we'll get for these guys next year, or in 2010, THOSE guys will REALLY add depth to the Curve, trust me.

Jeemie · #14 Post by **Jeemie** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:48 pm

KillerTomato wrote:
Jeemie wrote: To get four prospects- including one blue-chipper and two near blue-chippers- for a guy who still has problems hitting with runners in scoring position was nothing short of a steal.

I will agree that I'm not as fond of the Nady/Marte deal, but this one was a gem of a deal, and shows that, unlike Littlefield, Huntington actually has a plan (there's a reason the farm system never got better under Littlefield- he rarely traded for prospects- instead he traded for retreads).

No, there was plenty of trading for prospects. Just none of them were any good, and if they were, they weren't here long. There was also plenty of trading for retreads, and none of them were any good either.

The problem is that we've been falling for the "Look! Prospects!" crap for too long. And yes, our farm system is execrable, but anyone who expects these four guys (or any other "prospects" the Buccos pick up) to either do well, or last in the Pirates system for more than 2 years is dreaming. I've sucked down that Kool-Aid for too long, and I refuse to partake any longer.

So while the trade looks good on paper, it'll most likely end up the same as every other trade: a bust. But the "prospects" we'll get for these guys next year, or in 2010, THOSE guys will REALLY add depth to the Curve, trust me.

Not that I'm guaranteeing anything, but trust ME, this is different this time.

I've watched enough baseball to know....and I wasn't sucked in by Littlefield's garbage.

These players WILL be different...Littlefield NEVER got anyone of this caliber before.

You also have to remember that during Littlefield's tenure, the young guys were never allowed to play to prove themselves...the team always brought in retreads instead of throwing in the young guys.

That has also changed this year.

Again- there are no guarantees, and I will be the first to say I'll believe it when I see it...but this was a fundamentally different trade than the kind Littlefield used to make.

Couple it with the drafting of an actual five-tool player, even though he was a Boras client, and I can actually see the changes. They NEVER would have drafted Alvarez under the old regime.

Here's Fanny! · #15 Post by **Here's Fanny!** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:52 pm

Jeemie wrote:
KillerTomato wrote:
Jeemie wrote: To get four prospects- including one blue-chipper and two near blue-chippers- for a guy who still has problems hitting with runners in scoring position was nothing short of a steal.

I will agree that I'm not as fond of the Nady/Marte deal, but this one was a gem of a deal, and shows that, unlike Littlefield, Huntington actually has a plan (there's a reason the farm system never got better under Littlefield- he rarely traded for prospects- instead he traded for retreads).

No, there was plenty of trading for prospects. Just none of them were any good, and if they were, they weren't here long. There was also plenty of trading for retreads, and none of them were any good either.

The problem is that we've been falling for the "Look! Prospects!" crap for too long. And yes, our farm system is execrable, but anyone who expects these four guys (or any other "prospects" the Buccos pick up) to either do well, or last in the Pirates system for more than 2 years is dreaming. I've sucked down that Kool-Aid for too long, and I refuse to partake any longer.

So while the trade looks good on paper, it'll most likely end up the same as every other trade: a bust. But the "prospects" we'll get for these guys next year, or in 2010, THOSE guys will REALLY add depth to the Curve, trust me.
Not that I'm guaranteeing anything, but trust ME, this is different this time.

I've watched enough baseball to know....and I wasn't sucked in by Littlefield's garbage.

These players WILL be different...Littlefield NEVER got anyone of this caliber before.

You also have to remember that during Littlefield's tenure, the young guys were never allowed to play to prove themselves...the team always brought in retreads instead of throwing in the young guys.

That has also changed this year.

Again- there are no guarantees, and I will be the first to say I'll believe it when I see it...but this was a fundamentally different trade than the kind Littlefield used to make.

Couple it with the drafting of an actual five-tool player, even though he was a Boras client, and I can actually see the changes. They NEVER would have drafted Alvarez under the old regime.

I used to love the Pirates. They were my National League team (along with the Cardinals) BITD when I followed baseball. Stargell, Candelaria, Tekulve, Parker, those guys.

I think I still might have an old yellow and black "We are Family" t-shirt around here somewhere.

I didn't know that they weren't still at Three Rivers and it makes me a little sad to hear how they've fallen upon hard times (apparently quite some time ago).

sunflower · #16 Post by **sunflower** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:06 pm

I wonder if his new team will actually make him wear his glove when in the outfield, or pay attention to the game at all. He's always irritated me.

#17 Post by **littlebeast13** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:09 pm

sunflower wrote:I wonder if his new team will actually make him wear his glove when in the outfield, or pay attention to the game at all. He's always irritated me.

I've heard Dodger fans are quite laid back, but even they got tired of J.D. Drew's lazy antics. Then again, Manny at least has personality, which should play well there. Drew's about as exciting as a wet piece of cardboard....

lb13

ulysses5019 · #18 Post by **ulysses5019** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:44 pm

littlebeast13 wrote:
sunflower wrote:I wonder if his new team will actually make him wear his glove when in the outfield, or pay attention to the game at all. He's always irritated me.

I've heard Dodger fans are quite laid back, but even they got tired of J.D. Drew's lazy antics. Then again, Manny at least has personality, which should play well there. Drew's about as exciting as a wet piece of cardboard....

lb13

Did something happen before the trade deadline? I haven't been to any Dodger games this year but I've been to two Angel Games. Go Halos!

Snaxx · #19 Post by **Snaxx** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:37 pm

Three years ago I sent KT (and Jeemie too IIRC) a Concentration game from PNC Park based on the Pirates' lineup vs the Cubs. Now it could be called Who is Still a Pirate?

http://flickr.com/photos/jacorbett70/2729806357/

click on the magnifying glass w/ All Sizes to view full size.

The lineup:

Spoiler

Freddy Sanchez
Rob Mackowiak
Jason Bay
Craig Wilson
Daryle Ward
Ty Wigginton
Humberto Cota
Jack Wilson
Kip Wells (P)

And where they are now

Spoiler

Freddy Sanchez - PIRATES
Rob Mackowiak - Louisville Bats AAA (Reds)
Jason Bay - Red Sox
Craig Wilson - Mariners
Daryle Ward - Cubs
Ty Wigginton - Astros
Humberto Cota - Colorado Springs Sky Sox AAA (Rockies) also suspended 50 games
Jack Wilson - PIRATES
Kip Wells (P) - Cubs

_______
The last season at Yankee Stadium

ToLiveIsToFly · #20 Post by **ToLiveIsToFly** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:42 pm

KillerTomato wrote:
Jeemie wrote: To get four prospects- including one blue-chipper and two near blue-chippers- for a guy who still has problems hitting with runners in scoring position was nothing short of a steal.

I will agree that I'm not as fond of the Nady/Marte deal, but this one was a gem of a deal, and shows that, unlike Littlefield, Huntington actually has a plan (there's a reason the farm system never got better under Littlefield- he rarely traded for prospects- instead he traded for retreads).

No, there was plenty of trading for prospects. Just none of them were any good, and if they were, they weren't here long. There was also plenty of trading for retreads, and none of them were any good either.

The problem is that we've been falling for the "Look! Prospects!" crap for too long. And yes, our farm system is execrable, but anyone who expects these four guys (or any other "prospects" the Buccos pick up) to either do well, or last in the Pirates system for more than 2 years is dreaming. I've sucked down that Kool-Aid for too long, and I refuse to partake any longer.

So while the trade looks good on paper, it'll most likely end up the same as every other trade: a bust. But the "prospects" we'll get for these guys next year, or in 2010, THOSE guys will REALLY add depth to the Curve, trust me.

The difference between Littlefield and Huntington is like the difference between Billy Joel and, well, someone who doesn't suck.

There's "prospects", and there's real prospects. As a Cubs fan, I miss the annual fleecing of Dave Littlefield. But it's tough to compete in a small market in the big leagues, and one of the realities is that you need players who are both good and cheap.

Craig Hansen is a decent reliever right now. Brandon Moss will be starting, and for a good reason. I don't know much about Bryan Morris, but Andy LaRoche will be in the All-Star in the next year or two. And not just because they have to send someone on the Bucs - he'll deserve it.

I predict it'll be tough to compete in the NL Central for a while now - the Brewers are run by very smart people, my Cubbies are filthy rich, and the Cardinals have an excellent track record of success. But the Bucs will be in the middle of the pack fairly soon - be thankful you don't have to root for a team run by Ed Wade or managed by Dusty Baker. You'll be looking down at them for a long time.

WWTBAM Bored

Manny To The Dodgers!?!?

Manny To The Dodgers!?!?

Pirates where they are now