Re: 2000 Mules

[earendel]

And you want to know what I think of the SEB voting to send Elon Musk a letter of reprimand? I guess that is one of 70 cases they heard on Wed and Thur. I didn't pay much attention to it. But if you ask me, I think he probably deserved it. Sara Ghazal, the only dem on the board, wasn't in attendence this month, so it was 3 conservative members who voted (Fervier, the RINO chair, doesn't usually vote). So it was obviously not handled in a partisan manner.

I think it shows either what is important to you, or it shows where you get your information that you think that was even a minor takeaway of what is happening relating to GA elections. It reeks of TDS.

Yes, that's all I wanted. I have no opinion regarding the other things you tagged.

Yeah, that is the big problem. They count on the indifference and the willing ignorance of the dumb masses (in the words of Gabriel Sterling, Raffensperger's replacement candidate for SOS) to get away with stealing elections. Have a good day, don't let the corruption bother you.

Since I don't live in Georgia there isn't anything I can do about the George board of elections. Saying I have no opinion isn't the same as saying I don't care. And let me add that I admire your tenacity regarding the issue.

[flockofseagulls104]

Yes, that's all I wanted. I have no opinion regarding the other things you tagged.

Yeah, that is the big problem. They count on the indifference and the willing ignorance of the dumb masses (in the words of Gabriel Sterling, Raffensperger's replacement candidate for SOS) to get away with stealing elections. Have a good day, don't let the corruption bother you.

Since I don't live in Georgia there isn't anything I can do about the George board of elections. Saying I have no opinion isn't the same as saying I don't care. And let me add that I admire your tenacity regarding the issue.

Thanks. But it is not limited to Georgia. I know at least PA, AZ and CO have had similar issues. I just know the inside story of my home state. And it is very frightening.

[Beebs52]

Yeah, that is the big problem. They count on the indifference and the willing ignorance of the dumb masses (in the words of Gabriel Sterling, Raffensperger's replacement candidate for SOS) to get away with stealing elections. Have a good day, don't let the corruption bother you.

Since I don't live in Georgia there isn't anything I can do about the George board of elections. Saying I have no opinion isn't the same as saying I don't care. And let me add that I admire your tenacity regarding the issue.

Thanks. But it is not limited to Georgia. I know at least PA, AZ and CO have had similar issues. I just know the inside story of my home state. And it is very frightening.

I will echo Ear re your tenacity, and I also applaud your lack of cynicism. I mean that.

[flockofseagulls104]

Since I don't live in Georgia there isn't anything I can do about the George board of elections. Saying I have no opinion isn't the same as saying I don't care. And let me add that I admire your tenacity regarding the issue.

Thanks. But it is not limited to Georgia. I know at least PA, AZ and CO have had similar issues. I just know the inside story of my home state. And it is very frightening.

I will echo Ear re your tenacity, and I also applaud your lack of cynicism. I mean that.

I am just small part of it, but a group of patriots in GA have persevered for several years against political pushback, fake news, lawfare, personal demonization and general indifference. And we are finally getting the evidence we have compiled and documented seriously examined by parties that can do something about it. We are hopeful that our work will make it so we can trust our elections to be accurate, no matter who prevails.

You want to know why I am so adamant about this? Here is some of the evidence I can personally vouch for. I have personally validated every number in these reports. I do not rely on any 'expert' or any reporter to give me this information. I have done all the work MYSELF. All the data is from publicly available sources, direct from the Secretary of State's website. And it's not even about 2020. It is still happening. Anyone with any database experience can validate it for themselves. This is just from voter rolls and the voter history files. It does not tell us whether the results of the election are correct. But it verifies the unacceptable condition our voter rolls are in. Our entire election should be verifiable in this way by anyone. It ain't. They do not give us the numbered list of voters, eligible voter list or the cast vote records. So we have to go by what they tell us. That is unacceptable.

If this were any private sector company, the officers of the company would be in jail right now.

USA 2022 election scorecard.
USA 2024 election scorecard.

Either look at the evidence and take my word on it or not. That is why I am adamant. If it in any way convinces you, one thing you can do is contact your Senator and urge them to get the Save America Act passed. It will address some of the problems.

[jarnon]

Flock, I was just watching a webinar by Indivisible. In the Q&A, somebody remarked that the Post Office plans to postmark mail-in ballots when they’re processed at regional facilities rather than when they’re dropped off, resulting in valid ballots being rejected. Do you think that’s fair? The person plans to hand-deliver ballots from nursing home residents and other disabled voters to avoid postal delays. Isn’t that what you call “harvesting” and being a “mule”? I suppose it’s legal in some places.

[flockofseagulls104]

Flock, I was just watching a webinar by Indivisible. In the Q&A, somebody remarked that the Post Office plans to postmark mail-in ballots when they’re processed at regional facilities rather than when they’re dropped off, resulting in valid ballots being rejected. Do you think that’s fair? The person plans to hand-deliver ballots from nursing home residents and other disabled voters to avoid postal delays. Isn’t that what you call “harvesting” and being a “mule”? I suppose it’s legal in some places.

Indivisible is a an organization that pretends it is local, when it is a national propaganda organization with an unlimited quantity of lawyers and unlimited funds that come from sources that are not friendly to the United States or it's republic. They do everything they can to undermine any republican or conservative candidate or cause. They even got involved in campaigning to deny my election to the election board.

Do I think what you described is fair?

I think mail in voting is the most insecure and fraud-ripe method there is. There is no valid chain of custody. Even Jimmy Carter agreed with that. Mail-in voting should be limited specifically to absentee ballots when there is a valid excuse or to overseas votes. And even then it should have a lot more security to it and ID proof and signatures must be validated. And if a mail in ballot is to be used, it needs to be received and counted by 7pm on Election day. NO EXCEPTIONS, like in California where they are counting them for weeks until they can finagle the results they want.

Havesting is illegal in Georgia, but in GA, election laws are mere suggestions that are cited only when it favors one party. But it is legal in many states. Particularly in the states where you don't have to present an ID to vote. Imagine that?

[jarnon]

This Wisconsin man went to extreme lengths to prove that mail-in voting is vulnerable to fraud.

Man who ordered ballots without consent found guilty of fraud and identity theft

He made sure he’d be caught and get in the news by using the names of local officials. Considering his advanced age (same as mine!) and confession (I suppose he asked for a jury trial instead of pleading guilty to get more publicity for his cause), I hope he gets off with probation and a fine.

[silverscreenselect]

Article in Time Magazine, after noting that Trump, Melania, and Barron all voted by mail in this week's special election, even though Trump was at Mar-a-Lago during the early voting period and could have voted in person.

Trump Claims Mail-In Voting Is ‘Corrupt.’ But Research Indicates Fraud Is Very, Very Rare

President Donald Trump has been going after mail-in voting for years, baselessly characterizing it as a source of widespread fraud in U.S. elections.

Voting by mail in the U.S. dates back to the Civil War, and has become more widespread in recent years even as Trump has publicly crusaded against it. According to the National Vote at Home Institute, more than 250 million votes were cast through mail-in ballots across all 50 states between 2000 and 2020. In 2024 alone, the U.S. Postal Service processed more than 99.2 million ballots. For some voters, including those with disabilities, the elderly, students studying away from their home states, or military personnel stationed outside of the U.S., it can be the only convenient way—or, in some cases, the only way at all—to participate in elections.

Despite Trump’s criticisms, states have numerous safeguards in place to protect against fraud in mail-in voting, and research indicates that instances of such fraud are exceedingly rare. Research published by the Brookings Institute in November found that cases of mail-in voting fraud account for merely 0.000043% of all ballots cast by mail, equivalent to roughly four out of every 10 million. The research focused on four of the five most recent general elections: those in 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022. To make its calculations, Brookings drew on a Heritage Foundation database of election fraud cases that “ended in a finding that the individual engaged in wrongdoing,” identifying cases in which people were charged with fraud related to mail-in voting. In the 2020 election, in which a record number of Americans voted by mail and which Trump has repeatedly claimed he lost as a result of voter fraud, the researchers calculated that those cases comprised just 0.000051% of the mail ballots cast.

An Associated Press survey of state and election officials in both Democratic- and Republican-run states also found no cases of fraud, vandalism, or theft related to the expanded use of drop boxes for mailed ballots in that year’s election—which Trump and other Republicans raised concerns about being a potential source of fraud—that could have impacted the outcome.

Another study from 2020, published by the American Statistical Association, estimated the change in the reported number of voter fraud cases after states switched to conducting elections by mail. Comparing the number of voter fraud cases in states where a large portion of voters receive ballots by mail to that in other states, the study found “no evidence that voting by mail increases the risk of voter fraud overall.” Earlier research produced similar findings. An investigation conducted in 2012 by the News21 reporting project, for instance, found just 491 alleged cases of absentee ballot fraud since 2000—a period in which hundreds of millions of votes were cast around the country—based on an analysis including hundreds of interviews and thousands of public records. Although the investigators found that voters frequently make mistakes, such as voting twice or in the wrong precinct, they concluded that few cases revealed a coordinated effort to fraudulently alter election results.

States employ multiple tools to combat mail-in voting fraud. According to a Brennan Center analysis, the main method used to counter fraud is identity verification. Voters sending in mail-in ballots are required to include their personal details on the ballot envelope. Those details are then cross-referenced with voter rolls to ensure that identifying information such as birth dates, addresses, social security numbers, or drivers’ licenses numbers match. In most states, voters also must sign the envelopes, and their signatures can be cross-referenced with those in registration databases as well. Most ballot envelopes additionally include bar codes, which allow officials to detect duplicate ballots.

Many states also offer secure drop-off locations and ballot boxes for voters intended to help prevent ballots going astray or being tampered with in the transfer between voters and election officials. Many of these boxes are placed outside of government buildings and monitored by security cameras. States also often require the boxes to be equipped with certain locks or seals.

After elections, most states also carry out post-election audits, in which they review voting records, equipment, and certain individual ballots to ensure the results are accurate and identify any irregularities. All but one state require some form of a post-election audit: 31 states and Washington D.C. require the audit to be completed before an election is certified; nine states perform the audit following the certification of an election; and nine states do not specify a deadline for the audit. Alabama is the one state that does not require post-election audits. Both state and federal laws impose significant penalties for people who are found to have committed mail-in voting fraud. On the federal level, each act of fraud can carry up to five years in prison and a fine of $10,000. State penalties, which vary under different states’ laws, would also apply in such cases.

To sum up, mail-in voter fraud is very rare. From 2000 to 2012, there were fewer than 500 cases of voter fraud by mail nationwide. That's less than one case per state per year. And, by the way, the Heritage Foundation referred to in the article is a conservative think tank, not one likely to try to skew the results to minimize voter fraud cases.

[flockofseagulls104]

From 2000 to 2012, there were fewer than 500 cases of voter fraud by mail nationwide.

That have been found and admitted to. That means precisely NOTHING. If just one exists, the potential for more is unlimited. What you are actually saying is we have found 500 needles in a big haystack. According to you, that's all there are. How can you say that and be so arrogant in your position? Because Brad Raffensperger tells you so?

Voter fraud by mail is very easy to conceal and very difficult to identify and prove, especially with the opaque election system that we've allowed to be installed. There is NO CHAIN OF CUSTODY. And mail fraud is just one of many vulnerabilities that HAVE BEEN EXPLOITED by bad actors. Just last month, here in GA, a case of a non-citizen in DeKalb County who has voted in more than a dozen elections was referred to the AG by the State Election Board. And 11 more non-citizens on the voter roll were found. These cases are discovered through a lot of hard work and research, mostly by PRIVATE CITIZENS. The officials that are responsible for the system don't really seem to give a shit. And there is no way to verify the results of any election, other than actually hand-counting the ballots, which the election officials will move heaven and earth to prevent from ever happening.

But I know nothing will penetrate the narrative that has been planted so deeply in your brain.

[silverscreenselect]

From 2000 to 2012, there were fewer than 500 cases of voter fraud by mail nationwide.

That have been found and admitted to. That means precisely NOTHING. If just one exists, the potential for more is unlimited. What you are actually saying is we have found 500 needles in a big haystack. According to you, that's all there are.

I'm sure there were more cases that slipped through. The question is how many orders of magnitude it would have to be to make a significant difference.

Research published by the Brookings Institute in November found that cases of mail-in voting fraud account for merely 0.000043% of all ballots cast by mail, equivalent to roughly four out of every 10 million.

Suppose that only 10% of the fraud cases got caught. That would mean there were 40 cases of fraud out of every 10 million mail-in ballots. And people who perpetrate this type of fraud don't tend to be the sharpest cards out there, which is how they get caught.

The purpose of the so-called SAVE Act and similar measures is not and has never been vote security. It's vote suppression, and it's the only hope the Republicans have in the upcoming elections since so many people have seen through Trump's bogus agenda.

[flockofseagulls104]

From 2000 to 2012, there were fewer than 500 cases of voter fraud by mail nationwide.

That have been found and admitted to. That means precisely NOTHING. If just one exists, the potential for more is unlimited. What you are actually saying is we have found 500 needles in a big haystack. According to you, that's all there are.

I'm sure there were more cases that slipped through. The question is how many orders of magnitude it would have to be to make a significant difference.

Research published by the Brookings Institute in November found that cases of mail-in voting fraud account for merely 0.000043% of all ballots cast by mail, equivalent to roughly four out of every 10 million.

Suppose that only 10% of the fraud cases got caught. That would mean there were 40 cases of fraud out of every 10 million mail-in ballots. And people who perpetrate this type of fraud don't tend to be the sharpest cards out there, which is how they get caught.

The purpose of the so-called SAVE Act and similar measures is not and has never been vote security. It's vote suppression, and it's the only hope the Republicans have in the upcoming elections since so many people have seen through Trump's bogus agenda.

I'm sorry SSS, but you are putting out moronic excuses. Mail in fraud is just one of many types of voter fraud that have been PROVEN with reproducible and verifiable evidence. Your party, 10-20 years ago, knew that. When Garland Favorito started VOTERGA, most of his support came from DEMOCRATS!!!! Now they have abandoned the idea of election integrity completely and are the most ardent opponents of ANYTHING that will make our elections transparent, verifiable by the general public, and lawful. Them and the asshats like Raffensperger.

What the SAVE AMERICA ACT does is require photo IDs when voting. If you have been paying attention, we in Georgia passed a law requiring just that. The woke crowd removed the basball All Star game from Atlanta because of that. The result was exactly the opposite of what the 'experts' you rely on predicted. We have had record turnout for every election since.

It also requires that ONLY US CITIZENS can vote in US Elections. Is that a problem for you? Your party's ridiculous claims that it would 'disenfrancise' anybody is incredibly stupid, insulting and hypocritical. But that's how stupid you think your constituents are. You need ID to do ANYTHING in 2026. Even go to a Jon Assoff rally.

I am tired of trying to knock some sense into you.

[silverscreenselect]

Mail in fraud is just one of many types of voter fraud that have been PROVEN with reproducible and verifiable evidence.

Reproducible and verifiable, yet has never been reproduced or verified to the satisfaction of any fact-finding tribunal anywhere in the United States.

And in case you weren't aware, we already have federal and state laws in every state on the books prohibiting voting by non-US citizens. The problem isn't photo ID, it's the type of photo ID that's acceptable.

[flockofseagulls104]

Mail in fraud is just one of many types of voter fraud that have been PROVEN with reproducible and verifiable e9vidence.

Reproducible and verifiable, yet has never been reproduced or verified to the satisfaction of any fact-finding tribunal anywhere in the United States.

And in case you weren't aware, we already have federal and state laws in every state on the books prohibiting voting by non-US citizens. The problem isn't photo ID, it's the type of photo ID that's acceptable.

Please refer to Curling v Raffensberger. 2 accepted subject matter experts provided testimony and evidence that was undisputed and unrefuted. Judge Amy Totenberg sat on it nervously for more than a year then suddenly decided the plaintiffs somehow didn't have standing so that she didn't have to rule on the evidence. But the evidence is on the record. You should review it, counselor, before making any more ignorant pronouncements. And that's just one case of many that used legal weasel moves to avoid the reality of the situation.
Elections aren't, but you certainly are certifiable
Yeah, it's illegal for non citizens to vote. Right. Yet there are probably more than 20 million people in this country illegally. Did that stop the dems from letting them in? Do you think the fact that it's illegal keeps them from getting them to vote when needed?

Geez do you really think other people buy that bullshit you people are shoveling

[silverscreenselect]

Yeah, it's illegal for non citizens to vote. Right. Yet there are probably more than 20 million people in this country illegally. Did that stop the dems from letting them in? Do you think the fact that it's illegal keeps them from getting them to vote when needed?

You know what's truly amazing about all these vast illegal voting conspiracies that exist in your mind? You would think that the people who get involved in them would tend to be the sort who would be involved in various other types of crime as well. And non-sophisticated, lower end criminals get caught. Often. And when they get caught, they look to cut a deal.

But despite all these thousands of non-citizen voters and others involved in all these fraudulent voting schemes, not one of them has ever come forward and offered to rat out others in exchange for a deal. And we're talking about red states and purple states in addition to blue states. Don't you think that DOJ and red state prosecutors would love to be able to make a case against somebody to prove your point?

So, either all these non-citizen voters have to be the most careful or luckiest people around or they have a loyalty to their Democratic bosses that's superior to what mobsters and cartel members have.

Yeah. Right.

[flockofseagulls104]

You know what's truly amazing about all these vast illegal voting conspiracies that exist in your mind? You would think that the people who get involved in them would tend to be the sort who would be involved in various other types of crime as well.

How right you are! I don't know why everybody says you're so dumb. THE SWAMP! The Dems and the RINOs. They're not only very smart, but they control all the machinery, have the motivation, money and access to do what needs to be done and has the power to shut people up about it.

Don't you think that DOJ and red state prosecutors would love to be able to make a case against somebody to prove your point?

I don't know about the DOJ and Bondi. I have no idea what the hell she is doing. But in GA there are very few, if any, prosecuters that want to subject themselves to the lawfare from Elias and Soros. But the DOJ now has the Fulton ballots. Let's see what, if anything, they do with them. We got another courtroom drama tomorrow in front of what looks like a corrupted judge.

So, yeah, SSS. Right.

[silverscreenselect]

I don't know about the DOJ and Bondi. I have no idea what the hell she is doing. But in GA there are very few, if any, prosecuters that want to subject themselves to the lawfare from Elias and Soros. But the DOJ now has the Fulton ballots. Let's see what, if anything, they do with them. We got another courtroom drama tomorrow in front of what looks like a corrupted judge.

Your self-delusion knows no end.

[flockofseagulls104]

I don't know about the DOJ and Bondi. I have no idea what the hell she is doing. But in GA there are very few, if any, prosecuters that want to subject themselves to the lawfare from Elias and Soros. But the DOJ now has the Fulton ballots. Let's see what, if anything, they do with them. We got another courtroom drama tomorrow in front of what looks like a corrupted judge.

Your self-delusion knows no end.

I have receipts, and have seen and verified receipts from others. I am the only one in this conversation who knows what they're talking about. You are just pontificating, which is what you have always done.

[tlynn78]

I don't know about the DOJ and Bondi. I have no idea what the hell she is doing. But in GA there are very few, if any, prosecuters that want to subject themselves to the lawfare from Elias and Soros. But the DOJ now has the Fulton ballots. Let's see what, if anything, they do with them. We got another courtroom drama tomorrow in front of what looks like a corrupted judge.

Your self-delusion knows no end.

You guys get more hilarious every day!

[BackInTex]

Something to think about....

ALS and perhaps fibromyalgia.

The don't exist. They are made up diseases, only in the minds of those suffering from them.

Why do I say that? Because millions of dollars have been spent researching, great minds and everything, but they have found no source or cause. Without a source or cause, something can't exist.

My point? Just because people look really hard for something and don't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is plenty of evidence ALS is real and exists. For one, my first cousin passed away a little over a year ago from it. Just like there plenty of evidence Joe Biden didn't legitimately get 81 million votes.

[mrkelley23]

Something to think about....

ALS and perhaps fibromyalgia.

The don't exist. They are made up diseases, only in the minds of those suffering from them.

Why do I say that? Because millions of dollars have been spent researching, great minds and everything, but they have found no source or cause. Without a source or cause, something can't exist.

My point? Just because people look really hard for something and don't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is plenty of evidence ALS is real and exists. For one, my first cousin passed away a little over a year ago from it. Just like there plenty of evidence Joe Biden didn't legitimately get 81 million votes.

This is an awesome post. I have rarely seen so many logical fallacies in such a short essay. I'm going to have to save this one for future classes.

[BackInTex]

Something to think about....

ALS and perhaps fibromyalgia.

The don't exist. They are made up diseases, only in the minds of those suffering from them.

Why do I say that? Because millions of dollars have been spent researching, great minds and everything, but they have found no source or cause. Without a source or cause, something can't exist.

My point? Just because people look really hard for something and don't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is plenty of evidence ALS is real and exists. For one, my first cousin passed away a little over a year ago from it. Just like there plenty of evidence Joe Biden didn't legitimately get 81 million votes.

This is an awesome post. I have rarely seen so many logical fallacies in such a short essay. I'm going to have to save this one for future classes.

Apparently you didn't read much in 2020.

You might want to take a course in satire first. Then we can discuss what you deem to be unintended logical fallacy.

[wbtravis007]

Something to think about....

ALS and perhaps fibromyalgia.

The don't exist. They are made up diseases, only in the minds of those suffering from them.

Why do I say that? Because millions of dollars have been spent researching, great minds and everything, but they have found no source or cause. Without a source or cause, something can't exist.

My point? Just because people look really hard for something and don't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is plenty of evidence ALS is real and exists. For one, my first cousin passed away a little over a year ago from it. Just like there plenty of evidence Joe Biden didn't legitimately get 81 million votes.

This is an awesome post. I have rarely seen so many logical fallacies in such a short essay. I'm going to have to save this one for future classes.

Apparently you didn't read much in 2020.

You might want to take a course in satire first. Then we can discuss what you deem to be unintended logical fallacy.

Boy, I guess I’ll have to admit that this post is so far over my pretty little head that I can’t make any sense out of it at all.

mrk, I’m curious about whether you are teaching a course on logic. If so, I’d be interested in hearing more about that.

[Weyoun]

I’m confused by the above statement.

ALS is a thing that happens, that we can appreciate certain things on histology that indicated. It’s also indicated by the nerves that are affected by it.

On the other hand, fibromyalgia is sort of a basket diagnosis for a chronic pain syndrome. The formal diagnosis involves having pain at a set number of locations in the human body. That’s it.

Now there’s some evidence there may be a pathophysiology to that as well, but we don’t know it yet.

So, those two examples really aren’t all that close to each other. Yet…

But either way, the reason we investigate these things because we see these things actually happen in people.

Regarding electoral fraud, we actually don’t see it happen. You just didn’t like how a certain election turned out. The next election didn’t bother you so much, so you stopped complaining. This was despite the guy you liking being in charge of the first election, and the guy that you dislike being in charge of the second election.

That’s it. That’s the evidence.

We’ve asked whitefailure to give one example of some sort of unlawful vote, or evidence of ballot harvesting or anything that would suggest that something occurred that would swing the election, but he has never done that.

So, no, it would not correspond to a rigorous, fact based analysis.

[BackInTex]

I’m confused.

That goes without saying.

We’ve asked whitefailure to give one example of some sort of unlawful vote, or evidence of ballot harvesting or anything that would suggest that something occurred that would swing the election, but he has never done that.

You're getting ahead of yourself.

Joe Biden got 81 million votes, without campaigning. No hype. No rallies. Just sat in his basement, napping maybe. That's the disease.

The cause would be unlawful votes, ballot harvesting, fraud. That's what's not been found.

[Beebs52]

I’m confused.

That goes without saying.

We’ve asked whitefailure to give one example of some sort of unlawful vote, or evidence of ballot harvesting or anything that would suggest that something occurred that would swing the election, but he has never done that.

You're getting ahead of yourself.

Joe Biden got 81 million votes, without campaigning. No hype. No rallies. Just sat in his basement, napping maybe. That's the disease.

The cause would be unlawful votes, ballot harvesting, fraud. That's what's not been found.

Fallacy explained. Very nice.