Commandments in school

[Beebs52]

I am a Christian, but regarding the recent Texas law re posting commandments my questions are,

Establishment clause references federal imposition of religion. If you accept fed funds are you violating that clause?

If it's state's rights do you need to abolish Dept of Educ if funds are used or just stop accepting them?

I don't personally think any religious whatever should be posted in schools. Doesn't preclude teaching about them, but promoting, no. Otherwise one could say all other creeds should be posted.

Serious questions

[silverscreenselect]

Establishment clause references federal imposition of religion. If you accept fed funds are you violating that clause?

The 14th Amendment makes the guarantees contained in the Bill of Rights, including freedom of speech and religion, applicable to the states as well.

[Beebs52]

Would you say Tx posting commandments equals establishing a religion?

[silverscreenselect]

Would you say Tx posting commandments equals establishing a religion?

In a 1980 Kentucky case, the Supreme Court said that posting the Ten Commandments in school did constitute an establishment of religion. In addition to secular prohibitions against theft, murder, and adultery, the Commandments include statements that "Thou shalt not have any other Gods before Me" and a requirement to remember the Sabbath. I'd also note that different versions of the Bible have different versions of the Ten Commandments. The Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant versions all differ somewhat. (https://mirwriter.wordpress.com/2016/02 ... rotestant/) So, whichever version appears in the school would constitute an establishment of that particular religion.

[elwoodblues]

One irony here is that many of the people who want the Ten Commandments in schools also support a President who breaks at least seven of them before breakfast every morning.

[Beebs52]

I agree. Think they're promoting King James version. Whatever.
Back in the day I objected to someone upset about a Christmas tree in a school play. No one worships trees, except, well...I won.
They will need to defend against other religions' lack of representation.
So.

[Beebs52]

Another thing, who in the school will be explaining the commandments to young kids? And in what context? Many of the tenets can be explained in civics, but some not so much.

[Beebs52]

One irony here is that many of the people who want the Ten Commandments in schools also support a President who breaks at least seven of them before breakfast every morning.

Do you actually know which seven?

[elwoodblues]

One irony here is that many of the people who want the Ten Commandments in schools also support a President who breaks at least seven of them before breakfast every morning.

Do you actually know which seven?

It was a joke I thought of when the commandments in schools thing started, and I wanted to see how it would go over in a mostly pro-Trump forum.

[Beebs52]

One irony here is that many of the people who want the Ten Commandments in schools also support a President who breaks at least seven of them before breakfast every morning.

Do you actually know which seven?

It was a joke I thought of when the commandments in schools thing started, and I wanted to see how it would go over in a mostly pro-Trump forum.

You are funny. This is not a pro Trump forum! Snort.

[kroxquo]

I am a Christian, but regarding the recent Texas law re posting commandments my questions are,

Establishment clause references federal imposition of religion. If you accept fed funds are you violating that clause?

If it's state's rights do you need to abolish Dept of Educ if funds are used or just stop accepting them?

I don't personally think any religious whatever should be posted in schools. Doesn't preclude teaching about them, but promoting, no. Otherwise one could say all other creeds should be posted.

Serious questions

Before I retired this year, North Carolina considered a similar bill but it never went anywhere. But I considered how I would respond in my classroom if it had passed and decided I would post the Ten Commandments and right next to them would be the Seven Pillars of Islam, Buddhism's Eightfold Noble Path, and whatever other precepts I could find in order to avoid any impression of promoting one religion over the other.

[mrkelley23]

Politicians politicking. Each trying to outdo the other when it comes to performative religion.

IMO, it's pretty much on the same level as forcing people to include their pronouns in their bios.

Can I say thank you to beebs and others who will actually point out stuff that they disagree with, even when it comes from an administration they generally agree with? That's difficult to do, as I know from personal experience.

[BackInTex]

Politicians politicking. Each trying to outdo the other when it comes to performative religion.

IMO, it's pretty much on the same level as forcing people to include their pronouns in their bios.

Can I say thank you to beebs and others who will actually point out stuff that they disagree with, even when it comes from an administration they generally agree with? That's difficult to do, as I know from personal experience.

I haven't commented on this because I think the whole thing is silly, foolish, whatever. Most of the "Christian" politicians pushing this are not, IMO, Christian. They are marketing for votes. I would prefer they return accountability to the schools, including corporal punishment. Give kids zeroes if that is the effor they put forth. Fail them rather than pass them on to the next level. Rather than charter schools, we need "military" schools. We now have several generations of kids who were never raised by adults, no parenting, and they have little or no future because we've been soft on them. Everyone gets a chance, maybe a second chance, but after that, they are on their own. We spend too much money and effort trying to educate the uneducatable.

[tlynn78]

Politicians politicking. Each trying to outdo the other when it comes to performative religion.

IMO, it's pretty much on the same level as forcing people to include their pronouns in their bios.

Can I say thank you to beebs and others who will actually point out stuff that they disagree with, even when it comes from an administration they generally agree with? That's difficult to do, as I know from personal experience.

I haven't commented on this because I think the whole thing is silly, foolish, whatever. Most of the "Christian" politicians pushing this are not, IMO, Christian. They are marketing for votes. I would prefer they return accountability to the schools, including corporal punishment. Give kids zeroes if that is the effor they put forth. Fail them rather than pass them on to the next level. Rather than charter schools, we need "military" schools. We now have several generations of kids who were never raised by adults, no parenting, and they have little or no future because we've been soft on them. Everyone gets a chance, maybe a second chance, but after that, they are on their own. We spend too much money and effort trying to educate the uneducatable.

Agreed.

[Beebs52]

Politicians politicking. Each trying to outdo the other when it comes to performative religion.

IMO, it's pretty much on the same level as forcing people to include their pronouns in their bios.

Can I say thank you to beebs and others who will actually point out stuff that they disagree with, even when it comes from an administration they generally agree with? That's difficult to do, as I know from personal experience.

I haven't commented on this because I think the whole thing is silly, foolish, whatever. Most of the "Christian" politicians pushing this are not, IMO, Christian. They are marketing for votes. I would prefer they return accountability to the schools, including corporal punishment. Give kids zeroes if that is the effor they put forth. Fail them rather than pass them on to the next level. Rather than charter schools, we need "military" schools. We now have several generations of kids who were never raised by adults, no parenting, and they have little or no future because we've been soft on them. Everyone gets a chance, maybe a second chance, but after that, they are on their own. We spend too much money and effort trying to educate the uneducatable.

Agreed.

Lot to unpack there. Must think.

[Ritterskoop]

Would you say Tx posting commandments equals establishing a religion?

In a 1980 Kentucky case, the Supreme Court said that posting the Ten Commandments in school did constitute an establishment of religion. In addition to secular prohibitions against theft, murder, and adultery, the Commandments include statements that "Thou shalt not have any other Gods before Me" and a requirement to remember the Sabbath. I'd also note that different versions of the Bible have different versions of the Ten Commandments. The Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant versions all differ somewhat. (https://mirwriter.wordpress.com/2016/02 ... rotestant/) So, whichever version appears in the school would constitute an establishment of that particular religion.

Yep. Even the Ten Commandments aren't the same from group to group, or aren't in the same order, or aren't interpreted the same way.

I grew up in a Protestant group that believed the fourth commandment says to go to church on Saturday (the seventh day), so we did.

I decided later that the point of the rule was to have a day that isn't secular, which I think is a good premise. But to squabble over which day it should be is not productive.

(They said a pope -- Constantine? -- changed it from Saturday to Sunday way back in the day, because he could. I never verified this.)

If I were a teacher under a rule like this, I would be doing the malicious compliance things as well.

[Weyoun]

Seems like a violation of the First Amendment and precedent, which means that the Roberts court will approve it.