Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

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jarnon
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#1 Post by jarnon » Sat Feb 15, 2025 4:45 pm

Spock wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:14 am
I am reading "Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy" by Eric Metaxas and I ran into this tidbit about Munich that I did not know before.

Bonhoeffer was anti-Nazi from the beginning as was much of his circle and were involved in various plots to take Hitler down. Most notably, Bonhoeffer was executed (as was his brother) shortly before the end of the war for his role in the July 20, 1944, plot.

Anyway, apparently (and news to me) a major anti-Hitler plot was in the works (by mostly military people) around the issues arising from Hitler's moves against Czechoslovakia when Chamberlain bailed Hitler out with his "Peace in our Time" stuff and all that. The anti-Hitler plotters were left gasping for breath as they never predicted Chamberlain bailing out Hitler in the manner he did.
More news out of Munich, and it’s all bad. (Has there ever been good news from there?)

Defense Secretary Hegseth gave a speech conceding two of Putin’s key demands: Russia retains conquered land (how much land is TBD) and Ukraine never joins NATO. Did I mention he was in Munich?

An Afghan man who was given asylum drove into a crowd, killing a mother and baby. How do Western countries balance the moral and strategic imperative to support peace-loving Afghans who have been victims of both Communism and Islamic fundamentalism, and the need to protect our own people from jihadists hiding among them?
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#2 Post by Spock » Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:14 pm

jarnon wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2025 4:45 pm
Spock wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:14 am
I am reading "Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy" by Eric Metaxas and I ran into this tidbit about Munich that I did not know before.

Bonhoeffer was anti-Nazi from the beginning as was much of his circle and were involved in various plots to take Hitler down. Most notably, Bonhoeffer was executed (as was his brother) shortly before the end of the war for his role in the July 20, 1944, plot.

Anyway, apparently (and news to me) a major anti-Hitler plot was in the works (by mostly military people) around the issues arising from Hitler's moves against Czechoslovakia when Chamberlain bailed Hitler out with his "Peace in our Time" stuff and all that. The anti-Hitler plotters were left gasping for breath as they never predicted Chamberlain bailing out Hitler in the manner he did.
More news out of Munich, and it’s all bad. (Has there ever been good news from there?)

Defense Secretary Hegseth gave a speech conceding two of Putin’s key demands: Russia retains conquered land (how much land is TBD) and Ukraine never joins NATO. Did I mention he was in Munich?

An Afghan man who was given asylum drove into a crowd, killing a mother and baby. How do Western countries balance the moral and strategic imperative to support peace-loving Afghans who have been victims of both Communism and Islamic fundamentalism, and the need to protect our own people from jihadists hiding among them?
OK, I will bite. Since the Cold War, NATO membership for Ukraine has been a solid red line for Russia. Do you understand that NATO membership for Ukraine would come at a very high risk of nuclear war? It is THAT important to Russia.

Among other sources see "A Disaster of Our Own Making: How the West Lost Ukraine" by Brandon Weichert.

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#3 Post by a1mamacat » Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:52 pm

jarnon wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2025 4:45 pm
Spock wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:14 am
I am reading "Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy" by Eric Metaxas and I ran into this tidbit about Munich that I did not know before.

Bonhoeffer was anti-Nazi from the beginning as was much of his circle and were involved in various plots to take Hitler down. Most notably, Bonhoeffer was executed (as was his brother) shortly before the end of the war for his role in the July 20, 1944, plot.

Anyway, apparently (and news to me) a major anti-Hitler plot was in the works (by mostly military people) around the issues arising from Hitler's moves against Czechoslovakia when Chamberlain bailed Hitler out with his "Peace in our Time" stuff and all that. The anti-Hitler plotters were left gasping for breath as they never predicted Chamberlain bailing out Hitler in the manner he did.
More news out of Munich, and it’s all bad. (Has there ever been good news from there?)

Defense Secretary Hegseth gave a speech conceding two of Putin’s key demands: Russia retains conquered land (how much land is TBD) and Ukraine never joins NATO. Did I mention he was in Munich?

An Afghan man who was given asylum drove into a crowd, killing a mother and baby. How do Western countries balance the moral and strategic imperative to support peace-loving Afghans who have been victims of both Communism and Islamic fundamentalism, and the need to protect our own people from jihadists hiding among them?
DUI Secretary is way out of his depth. The US does not have the authority to cede anything to Putin. I don’t think the anti-trump plotters will be deterred for long. Canada and Greenland have too many friends that are going to support us no matter what. How long before Trump alienates everyone but Putin, and has no one to come to your aid when Isis inevitably strikes again?
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#4 Post by Weyoun » Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:59 pm

What struck me about the couch-fucker’s focus on free speech was that 1) none of that is a basis for foreign policy, and if it was 2) why was he kissing Russia’s ass when they are the worst about free speech?

Oh, that’s right, his boss is a fascist. The people who financially support him wanted to become oligarchs. And he seems like a creep with some weird ideas about society that he thinks are best embodied by a premodern country that is drinking itself to death.

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#5 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Feb 17, 2025 4:59 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:59 pm
What struck me about the couch-fucker’s focus on free speech was that 1) none of that is a basis for foreign policy, and if it was 2) why was he kissing Russia’s ass when they are the worst about free speech?

Oh, that’s right, his boss is a fascist. The people who financially support him wanted to become oligarchs. And he seems like a creep with some weird ideas about society that he thinks are best embodied by a premodern country that is drinking itself to death.
Very thought provoking with a lot of new concepts put together in a very unique way. It begs the question: Is 'whitefailure' a group pejorative, or is it specifically assigned just to me?
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#6 Post by earendel » Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:37 pm

Spock wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:14 pm
OK, I will bite. Since the Cold War, NATO membership for Ukraine has been a solid red line for Russia. Do you understand that NATO membership for Ukraine would come at a very high risk of nuclear war? It is THAT important to Russia.

Among other sources see "A Disaster of Our Own Making: How the West Lost Ukraine" by Brandon Weichert.
Now it's my turn to bite. My prediction is that Trump and Putin will agree that peace can only be achieved by allowing Russia to keep the territory it's already conquered. Zelenski will refuse, and the Europeans will support him (they are already providing more aid than we are). Trump will pull US support for Ukraine and the war will continue. This little meeting in Saudi Arabia, without Ukraine or the Europeans, sounds very reminiscent of what happened in Munich in 1938. History may not repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes.
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#7 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:25 pm

earendel wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:37 pm
Spock wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:14 pm
OK, I will bite. Since the Cold War, NATO membership for Ukraine has been a solid red line for Russia. Do you understand that NATO membership for Ukraine would come at a very high risk of nuclear war? It is THAT important to Russia.

Among other sources see "A Disaster of Our Own Making: How the West Lost Ukraine" by Brandon Weichert.
Now it's my turn to bite. My prediction is that Trump and Putin will agree that peace can only be achieved by allowing Russia to keep the territory it's already conquered. Zelenski will refuse, and the Europeans will support him (they are already providing more aid than we are). Trump will pull US support for Ukraine and the war will continue. This little meeting in Saudi Arabia, without Ukraine or the Europeans, sounds very reminiscent of what happened in Munich in 1938. History may not repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes.
You are on record, ear. A very TDS inspired prediction. If it turns out to be wrong and Trump succeeds in ending this war, are you prepared to acknowledge and disavow your TDS?

And don't tell me you don't suffer from it. It is obvious from your posting record, even though you try and pose as non partisan.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary snowflake... Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... Simpleton... gullible idiot... a coward who can't face facts... insufferable and obnoxious dumbass... the usual dum dum... idolatrous donkey-person!... Mouth-breathing moron... Dildo... Inferior thinker

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#8 Post by kroxquo » Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:55 am

earendel wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:37 pm
Spock wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:14 pm
OK, I will bite. Since the Cold War, NATO membership for Ukraine has been a solid red line for Russia. Do you understand that NATO membership for Ukraine would come at a very high risk of nuclear war? It is THAT important to Russia.

Among other sources see "A Disaster of Our Own Making: How the West Lost Ukraine" by Brandon Weichert.
Now it's my turn to bite. My prediction is that Trump and Putin will agree that peace can only be achieved by allowing Russia to keep the territory it's already conquered. Zelenski will refuse, and the Europeans will support him (they are already providing more aid than we are). Trump will pull US support for Ukraine and the war will continue. This little meeting in Saudi Arabia, without Ukraine or the Europeans, sounds very reminiscent of what happened in Munich in 1938. History may not repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes.
OR - Zelensky refuses, dies "mysteriously", and a Russian puppet is installed and accepts the deal.
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#9 Post by earendel » Tue Feb 18, 2025 7:35 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:25 pm
earendel wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:37 pm
Spock wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:14 pm
OK, I will bite. Since the Cold War, NATO membership for Ukraine has been a solid red line for Russia. Do you understand that NATO membership for Ukraine would come at a very high risk of nuclear war? It is THAT important to Russia.

Among other sources see "A Disaster of Our Own Making: How the West Lost Ukraine" by Brandon Weichert.
Now it's my turn to bite. My prediction is that Trump and Putin will agree that peace can only be achieved by allowing Russia to keep the territory it's already conquered. Zelenski will refuse, and the Europeans will support him (they are already providing more aid than we are). Trump will pull US support for Ukraine and the war will continue. This little meeting in Saudi Arabia, without Ukraine or the Europeans, sounds very reminiscent of what happened in Munich in 1938. History may not repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes.
You are on record, ear. A very TDS inspired prediction. If it turns out to be wrong and Trump succeeds in ending this war, are you prepared to acknowledge and disavow your TDS?

And don't tell me you don't suffer from it. It is obvious from your posting record, even though you try and pose as non partisan.
It's possible that Trump will end the war, at least as far as the US providing support. And he'll do it by selling out the Ukrainians. Whether they choose to accept this or continue the fight is their decision. If I'm wrong, and the war ends with Ukraine regaining its lost territory, I'll be the first to applaud Trump's negotiating skills.
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#10 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:10 am

earendel wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 7:35 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:25 pm
earendel wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:37 pm

Now it's my turn to bite. My prediction is that Trump and Putin will agree that peace can only be achieved by allowing Russia to keep the territory it's already conquered. Zelenski will refuse, and the Europeans will support him (they are already providing more aid than we are). Trump will pull US support for Ukraine and the war will continue. This little meeting in Saudi Arabia, without Ukraine or the Europeans, sounds very reminiscent of what happened in Munich in 1938. History may not repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes.
You are on record, ear. A very TDS inspired prediction. If it turns out to be wrong and Trump succeeds in ending this war, are you prepared to acknowledge and disavow your TDS?

And don't tell me you don't suffer from it. It is obvious from your posting record, even though you try and pose as non partisan.
It's possible that Trump will end the war, at least as far as the US providing support. And he'll do it by selling out the Ukrainians. Whether they choose to accept this or continue the fight is their decision. If I'm wrong, and the war ends with Ukraine regaining its lost territory, I'll be the first to applaud Trump's negotiating skills.
Which lost territory? The territory they lost under Biden? Or Obama?
I missed when you posted something critical against them and their handling of Ukraine and Russia.
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#11 Post by Weyoun » Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:15 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:25 pm
earendel wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:37 pm
Spock wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:14 pm
OK, I will bite. Since the Cold War, NATO membership for Ukraine has been a solid red line for Russia. Do you understand that NATO membership for Ukraine would come at a very high risk of nuclear war? It is THAT important to Russia.

Among other sources see "A Disaster of Our Own Making: How the West Lost Ukraine" by Brandon Weichert.
Now it's my turn to bite. My prediction is that Trump and Putin will agree that peace can only be achieved by allowing Russia to keep the territory it's already conquered. Zelenski will refuse, and the Europeans will support him (they are already providing more aid than we are). Trump will pull US support for Ukraine and the war will continue. This little meeting in Saudi Arabia, without Ukraine or the Europeans, sounds very reminiscent of what happened in Munich in 1938. History may not repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes.
You are on record, ear. A very TDS inspired prediction. If it turns out to be wrong and Trump succeeds in ending this war, are you prepared to acknowledge and disavow your TDS?

And don't tell me you don't suffer from it. It is obvious from your posting record, even though you try and pose as non partisan.
I think the guy who promised to leave the board when Operation Dumbo Drop turned out to be a pile of elephant shit should be super careful about making people stand by their predictions. whitefailure, indeed.

Still waiting, by the way, for one single human being shown to be involved in election theft during the 2020 election.

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#12 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:21 am

Weyoun wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:15 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:25 pm
earendel wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:37 pm

Now it's my turn to bite. My prediction is that Trump and Putin will agree that peace can only be achieved by allowing Russia to keep the territory it's already conquered. Zelenski will refuse, and the Europeans will support him (they are already providing more aid than we are). Trump will pull US support for Ukraine and the war will continue. This little meeting in Saudi Arabia, without Ukraine or the Europeans, sounds very reminiscent of what happened in Munich in 1938. History may not repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes.
You are on record, ear. A very TDS inspired prediction. If it turns out to be wrong and Trump succeeds in ending this war, are you prepared to acknowledge and disavow your TDS?

And don't tell me you don't suffer from it. It is obvious from your posting record, even though you try and pose as non partisan.
I think the guy who promised to leave the board when Operation Dumbo Drop turned out to be a pile of elephant shit should be super careful about making people stand by their predictions. whitefailure, indeed.

Still waiting, by the way, for one single human being shown to be involved in election theft during the 2020 election. The videos are pretty much all around 5 minutes long. Is that within your attention span?
Still waiting for an explanation of 'whitefailure'.
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#13 Post by earendel » Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:01 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:10 am
Which lost territory? The territory they lost under Biden? Or Obama?
I missed when you posted something critical against them and their handling of Ukraine and Russia.
I don't recall there being much of a discussion at all. But that's neither here nor there. Russia took roughly 1/5 of Ukraine including he Crimean Peninsula. Our current Secretary of Defense has said that Ukraine must give up on recovering Russian-controlled territory, which is an "unrealistic objective" (his words). I'm sure that he is conveying Trump's sentiments. Giving in to Putin will only embolden him - perhaps the Baltic states are next. Do you honestly think that if Putin invaded Lithuania Trump would send troops to its defense in accordance with Article 5 of the NATO treaty?
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#14 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:16 pm

earendel wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:01 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:10 am
Which lost territory? The territory they lost under Biden? Or Obama?
I missed when you posted something critical against them and their handling of Ukraine and Russia.
I don't recall there being much of a discussion at all. But that's neither here nor there. Russia took roughly 1/5 of Ukraine including he Crimean Peninsula. Our current Secretary of Defense has said that Ukraine must give up on recovering Russian-controlled territory, which is an "unrealistic objective" (his words). I'm sure that he is conveying Trump's sentiments. Giving in to Putin will only embolden him - perhaps the Baltic states are next. Do you honestly think that if Putin invaded Lithuania Trump would send troops to its defense in accordance with Article 5 of the NATO treaty?
Neither here nor there? So why is it here and now for you? Only in the sense that it is something that you can hypothetically pin on Trump is why.

And on what are you basing your insane idea about Putin invading the Baltic States? Because some leftist 'expert' mentioned it somewhere? One of those experts that claimed Hunter's laptop was Russian Disinformation? Or is it from some leftist NGO that got millions from USAID?

You are showing yourself for the extremist you are, ear. Let's talk when Putin invades Lithuania. It won't be when Trump is President.
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#15 Post by elwoodblues » Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:39 pm

On the news this evening Trump claimed that Ukraine, the country that was invaded as you may recall, was the one that started the war. And don't say he didn't because there is video of him saying it.

I realize that we all know he lies about everything. It is part of his act. But it is pretty obvious which side he is on.

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#16 Post by BackInTex » Tue Feb 18, 2025 7:41 pm

elwoodblues wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:39 pm
I realize that we all know he lies about everything.
You realize what? You don't know that, because it's not true. Does he lie a lot? Sure, he's a politician. So is Biden. And so did Biden. So did Obama, Bush, Clinton, on down the line.

I realize we all know you believe the lies you want, and ignore the truth you don't like.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#17 Post by Weyoun » Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:00 pm

All people lie. Most don’t manage to lie about something with international implications that could change the course of world history. I would add them most of them don’t lie in a way that can be so easily disproven, also.

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#18 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:27 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:00 pm
All people lie. Most don’t manage to lie about something with international implications that could change the course of world history. I would add them most of them don’t lie in a way that can be so easily disproven, also.
Really?
I could discuss the lies that were unleashed every day by the previous regime, but it's a colossal waste of time trading any words with you.
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#19 Post by Weyoun » Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:06 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:27 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:00 pm
All people lie. Most don’t manage to lie about something with international implications that could change the course of world history. I would add them most of them don’t lie in a way that can be so easily disproven, also.
Really?
I could discuss the lies that were unleashed every day by the previous regime, but it's a colossal waste of time trading any words with you.
Be my guest, but we are talking about what’s happening right now because it’s happening right now.

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#20 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:54 am

Weyoun wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:06 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:27 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:00 pm
All people lie. Most don’t manage to lie about something with international implications that could change the course of world history. I would add them most of them don’t lie in a way that can be so easily disproven, also.
Really?
I could discuss the lies that were unleashed every day by the previous regime, but it's a colossal waste of time trading any words with you.
Be my guest, but we are talking about what’s happening right now because it’s happening right now.
Really? We're talking about Chamberlain and Munich, Napolean, Depressed people forced to work in farm camps, War against Canada, 'whitefailure' etc... because it's happening now? Seems like 'we' are making up as many imaginary scenarios as can be thought of to divert attention away from all the corruption Musk is finding.
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earendel
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#21 Post by earendel » Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:10 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:16 pm
earendel wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:01 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:10 am
Which lost territory? The territory they lost under Biden? Or Obama?
I missed when you posted something critical against them and their handling of Ukraine and Russia.
I don't recall there being much of a discussion at all. But that's neither here nor there. Russia took roughly 1/5 of Ukraine including he Crimean Peninsula. Our current Secretary of Defense has said that Ukraine must give up on recovering Russian-controlled territory, which is an "unrealistic objective" (his words). I'm sure that he is conveying Trump's sentiments. Giving in to Putin will only embolden him - perhaps the Baltic states are next. Do you honestly think that if Putin invaded Lithuania Trump would send troops to its defense in accordance with Article 5 of the NATO treaty?
Neither here nor there? So why is it here and now for you? Only in the sense that it is something that you can hypothetically pin on Trump is why.

And on what are you basing your insane idea about Putin invading the Baltic States? Because some leftist 'expert' mentioned it somewhere? One of those experts that claimed Hunter's laptop was Russian Disinformation? Or is it from some leftist NGO that got millions from USAID?

You are showing yourself for the extremist you are, ear. Let's talk when Putin invades Lithuania. It won't be when Trump is President.
Try to keep up - the "neither here nor there" remark refers to the lack of discussion about Ukraine losing territory under Obama or Biden. I'm not "hypothetically pin[ning]" anything on Trump. I am saying that the likelihood is Trump and Putin will agree to "end the war" on terms that would result in Ukraine losing 1/5 of its territory to Russia, thus Putin being rewarded for his aggression. That being the case, I'm suggesting that Putin would be emboldened to continue his efforts to reconstitute the Soviet Union and, hypothetically, invade one of the Baltic states. Since Trump is on record as saying he would allow Putin to do "whatever the hell they [Russia] want" if a country doesn't pay enough into NATO - without specifying how much is enough - it's possible that Trump wouldn't send troops to protect Lithuania if Putin invaded. (For the record, Lithuania contributes 2.85% of its GDP to NATO.)

And at the risk of getting down in the mud with you and Weyoun, calling me an extremist is like the pot calling the kettle black. I would suggest that you suffer from a variant strain of TDS, one that affects the victim with the belief that Trump can do no wrong.
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#22 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:38 am

earendel wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:10 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:16 pm
earendel wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:01 pm

I don't recall there being much of a discussion at all. But that's neither here nor there. Russia took roughly 1/5 of Ukraine including he Crimean Peninsula. Our current Secretary of Defense has said that Ukraine must give up on recovering Russian-controlled territory, which is an "unrealistic objective" (his words). I'm sure that he is conveying Trump's sentiments. Giving in to Putin will only embolden him - perhaps the Baltic states are next. Do you honestly think that if Putin invaded Lithuania Trump would send troops to its defense in accordance with Article 5 of the NATO treaty?
Neither here nor there? So why is it here and now for you? Only in the sense that it is something that you can hypothetically pin on Trump is why.

And on what are you basing your insane idea about Putin invading the Baltic States? Because some leftist 'expert' mentioned it somewhere? One of those experts that claimed Hunter's laptop was Russian Disinformation? Or is it from some leftist NGO that got millions from USAID?

You are showing yourself for the extremist you are, ear. Let's talk when Putin invades Lithuania. It won't be when Trump is President.
Try to keep up - the "neither here nor there" remark refers to the lack of discussion about Ukraine losing territory under Obama or Biden. I'm not "hypothetically pin[ning]" anything on Trump. I am saying that the likelihood is Trump and Putin will agree to "end the war" on terms that would result in Ukraine losing 1/5 of its territory to Russia, thus Putin being rewarded for his aggression. That being the case, I'm suggesting that Putin would be emboldened to continue his efforts to reconstitute the Soviet Union and, hypothetically, invade one of the Baltic states. Since Trump is on record as saying he would allow Putin to do "whatever the hell they [Russia] want" if a country doesn't pay enough into NATO - without specifying how much is enough - it's possible that Trump wouldn't send troops to protect Lithuania if Putin invaded. (For the record, Lithuania contributes 2.85% of its GDP to NATO.)

And at the risk of getting down in the mud with you and Weyoun, calling me an extremist is like the pot calling the kettle black. I would suggest that you suffer from a variant strain of TDS, one that affects the victim with the belief that Trump can do no wrong.
Ukraine lost 1/5 of its territory to Russia under administrations that did nothing but point at Russia and tell us all the bad things it supposedly did and did NOTHING about them. You have said NOTHING about that, yet are making outrageous claims and projections without any basis or evidence about what 'could' happen, and using out-of-context quotes as the false foundation for your BS.

You have a great future as a CBS 'journalist' if you choose to pursue it.

I am not in ifonly's mud. I have not called him, or anyone, any names in a long time. I'm just going where he takes me.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary snowflake... Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... Simpleton... gullible idiot... a coward who can't face facts... insufferable and obnoxious dumbass... the usual dum dum... idolatrous donkey-person!... Mouth-breathing moron... Dildo... Inferior thinker

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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#23 Post by Weyoun » Wed Feb 19, 2025 1:07 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:38 am
earendel wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:10 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 5:16 pm

Neither here nor there? So why is it here and now for you? Only in the sense that it is something that you can hypothetically pin on Trump is why.

And on what are you basing your insane idea about Putin invading the Baltic States? Because some leftist 'expert' mentioned it somewhere? One of those experts that claimed Hunter's laptop was Russian Disinformation? Or is it from some leftist NGO that got millions from USAID?

You are showing yourself for the extremist you are, ear. Let's talk when Putin invades Lithuania. It won't be when Trump is President.
Try to keep up - the "neither here nor there" remark refers to the lack of discussion about Ukraine losing territory under Obama or Biden. I'm not "hypothetically pin[ning]" anything on Trump. I am saying that the likelihood is Trump and Putin will agree to "end the war" on terms that would result in Ukraine losing 1/5 of its territory to Russia, thus Putin being rewarded for his aggression. That being the case, I'm suggesting that Putin would be emboldened to continue his efforts to reconstitute the Soviet Union and, hypothetically, invade one of the Baltic states. Since Trump is on record as saying he would allow Putin to do "whatever the hell they [Russia] want" if a country doesn't pay enough into NATO - without specifying how much is enough - it's possible that Trump wouldn't send troops to protect Lithuania if Putin invaded. (For the record, Lithuania contributes 2.85% of its GDP to NATO.)

And at the risk of getting down in the mud with you and Weyoun, calling me an extremist is like the pot calling the kettle black. I would suggest that you suffer from a variant strain of TDS, one that affects the victim with the belief that Trump can do no wrong.
Ukraine lost 1/5 of its territory to Russia under administrations that did nothing but point at Russia and tell us all the bad things it supposedly did and did NOTHING about them. You have said NOTHING about that, yet are making outrageous claims and projections without any basis or evidence about what 'could' happen, and using out-of-context quotes as the false foundation for your BS.

You have a great future as a CBS 'journalist' if you choose to pursue it.

I am not in ifonly's mud. I have not called him, or anyone, any names in a long time. I'm just going where he takes me.
I think more could’ve been done, but they did supply Ukraine with arms, which is the only reason the country wasn’t overrun.

What’s the current guy doing?

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Bob Juch
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#24 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Feb 19, 2025 1:23 pm

Here's a brief history of my Ukranian ancestors. Rurik was my 30th great-grandfather.

The Dukes of Kyiv, also known as the Princes of Kyiv, played a pivotal role in the history of Eastern Europe, particularly in the formation of the medieval state of Kyivan Rus. Their history begins in the 9th century with Rurik, a Varangian (Viking) chieftain traditionally considered the founder of the Rurik Dynasty. Rurik ruled Novgorod, and his descendants expanded their influence southward to Kyiv. His successor, Oleg of Novgorod, moved his base to Kyiv around 879, establishing it as the capital of Kyivan Rus. Oleg united various Slavic tribes and laid the foundation for the state, famously expanding the territory and securing trade routes with the Byzantine Empire after his campaign against Constantinople.

Following Oleg's reign, Igor of Kyiv ruled from 912 to 945. He attempted to maintain control over the Drevlians, a rebellious tribe, but his harsh tribute demands led to his assassination. After Igor's death, his wife, Olga of Kyiv, served as regent for their son, Sviatoslav I. Olga is noted for avenging her husband's death and becoming the first ruler of Kyivan Rus to convert to Christianity, paving the way for the Christianization of the state.

Sviatoslav I took power around 945 and became known as a warrior prince who expanded Kyivan's territory into the Balkans and fought against the Khazars. His military campaigns significantly increased the influence of Kyivan Rus, but the Pechenegs eventually killed him near the Dnieper River. His son, Vladimir the Great, ruled from 980 to 1015 and is most celebrated for Christianizing Kyivan Rus in 988, which aligned the state with the Byzantine cultural and religious sphere. To solidify this alliance, Vladimir married the Byzantine princess Anna. His reign marked a period of cultural growth and political stability.

Yaroslav the Wise, who ruled from 1019 to 1054, promoted education, codified legal customs into the Russkaya Pravda (Russian Law), and strengthened international alliances through marriage diplomacy. Under his leadership, Kyiv became a major cultural and political center in Eastern Europe. However, after his death, Kyivan Rus faced internal conflicts among his sons and grandsons, leading to a period of fragmentation.

The Council of Liubech in 1097 was convened to stabilize succession disputes by establishing a system of appanage (territorial inheritance). However, this only temporarily delayed the fragmentation as rivalries among the princes persisted. Eventually, this political disunity made Kyivan Rus vulnerable to external threats.

In 1240, the Mongols under Batu Khan sacked Kyiv, leading to the decline of Kyivan Rus. The political center shifted to other principalities, such as Vladimir-Suzdal, Galicia-Volhynia, and eventually Moscow. The fragmentation of Kyivan Rus contributed to the emergence of separate identities for the East Slavic peoples, influencing the cultural and political development of modern-day Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus.

Despite the fall of Kyiv, the Rurikid Dynasty continued to rule various Russian principalities until the end of the 16th century, leaving a profound legacy on the region's history. The influence of the Princes of Kyiv is still recognized today as foundational to the historical narratives of Ukraine and Russia.


As you can see, the Ukranian land has been fought over for centuries.
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Re: Tidbit About Chamberlain and Munich

#25 Post by elwoodblues » Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:05 pm

Now Trump is calling Zelensky a dictator. Notice that Putin, the actual dictator in this scenario, is one of the few people about whom Trump has never spoken ill.

How do I know Zelensky is not a dictator? If he were, Trump would like him.

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