That's just me. Watching Astros bungle so why not...flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:22 pmWhy do you want to nit-pick a perfectly good insane rant?Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:19 pmWTF are you talking about? Who's pain? Social versus scientific? Do you need a snack or something?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:49 pmYou're correct that I omitted the term "brother-in-law's." I've corrected the omission. Apparently you have a narrower view of family than I do. So be it.
The fundamental point remains. You're deliberately elevating your own comfort level with a social choice over another human being's very real pain. That's a choice that can and should have social consequences. --Bob
If The Thomas Boy
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
Well, then
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
Deliberately misgendering the transgender, as BiT insists on doing, causes them very real pain. There's a reason they typically refer to their original name as their "deadname."Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:19 pmWTF are you talking about? Who's pain? Social versus scientific? Do you need a snack or something?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:49 pmYou're correct that I omitted the term "brother-in-law's." I've corrected the omission. Apparently you have a narrower view of family than I do. So be it.BackInTex wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:28 pmFirst, I have no relatives who are transgender so none of my nieces would be pleased with me doing what you think I should do. You should work on your reading comprehension or consider Prevagen.
Two, my choice is to be correct, not cause pain. And being correct, refusing to submit to the absurd is a practical impact.
The fundamental point remains. You're deliberately elevating your own comfort level with a social choice over another human being's very real pain. That's a choice that can and should have social consequences. --Bob
Did you not know that? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
First of all I don't know if he does that to people he interacts with. Second, what evidence do you have for your statement? And, what about those transgendered people who regret what they've done? Do you really think they're upset about that? You are not an expert.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:40 pmDeliberately misgendering the transgender, as BiT insists on doing, causes them very real pain. There's a reason they typically refer to their original name as their "deadname."Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:19 pmWTF are you talking about? Who's pain? Social versus scientific? Do you need a snack or something?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:49 pmYou're correct that I omitted the term "brother-in-law's." I've corrected the omission. Apparently you have a narrower view of family than I do. So be it.
The fundamental point remains. You're deliberately elevating your own comfort level with a social choice over another human being's very real pain. That's a choice that can and should have social consequences. --Bob
Did you not know that? --Bob
Well, then
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
What makes you think there are any transgendered people who regret what they've done? Or more than a tiny handful, compared to the number of people who are happy they've transitioned? And in any event, how would the existence of such people excuse deliberately misgendering people who have no such regrets?Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:51 pmFirst of all I don't know if he does that to people he interacts with. Second, what evidence do you have for your statement? And, what about those transgendered people who regret what they've done? Do you really think they're upset about that? You are not an expert.
I'm pretty sure BiT has acknowledged deliberately misgendering his brother-in-law's niece. He probably doesn't do so at work (if he has to interact with anyone who's transgender), but only because deliberately misgendering someone is an act of discrimination that could get his employer sued and himself fired. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
More business for you, eh?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:09 pmWhat makes you think there are any transgendered people who regret what they've done? Or more than a tiny handful, compared to the number of people who are happy they've transitioned? And in any event, how would the existence of such people excuse deliberately misgendering people who have no such regrets?Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:51 pmFirst of all I don't know if he does that to people he interacts with. Second, what evidence do you have for your statement? And, what about those transgendered people who regret what they've done? Do you really think they're upset about that? You are not an expert.
I'm pretty sure BiT has acknowledged deliberately misgendering his brother-in-law's niece. He probably doesn't do so at work (if he has to interact with anyone who's transgender), but only because deliberately misgendering someone is an act of discrimination that could get his employer sued and himself fired. --Bob
Well, then
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
I don't do much employment law. Our Employment Department usually represents employers, not plaintiffs. I understand they usually recommend that our clients fire such employees to avoid a lawsuit that would be indefensible because it's meritorious. In other words, it's the type of business we try to help our clients avoid giving us. --BobBeebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:21 pmMore business for you, eh?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:09 pmWhat makes you think there are any transgendered people who regret what they've done? Or more than a tiny handful, compared to the number of people who are happy they've transitioned? And in any event, how would the existence of such people excuse deliberately misgendering people who have no such regrets?Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:51 pmFirst of all I don't know if he does that to people he interacts with. Second, what evidence do you have for your statement? And, what about those transgendered people who regret what they've done? Do you really think they're upset about that? You are not an expert.
I'm pretty sure BiT has acknowledged deliberately misgendering his brother-in-law's niece. He probably doesn't do so at work (if he has to interact with anyone who's transgender), but only because deliberately misgendering someone is an act of discrimination that could get his employer sued and himself fired. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
How the hell did referring to a biological male as 'he' get to be against the law? Can I get a law that says people have to refer to me as 'Your Royal Highness' or I can sue them or get them fired?Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:21 pmMore business for you, eh?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:09 pmWhat makes you think there are any transgendered people who regret what they've done? Or more than a tiny handful, compared to the number of people who are happy they've transitioned? And in any event, how would the existence of such people excuse deliberately misgendering people who have no such regrets?Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:51 pmFirst of all I don't know if he does that to people he interacts with. Second, what evidence do you have for your statement? And, what about those transgendered people who regret what they've done? Do you really think they're upset about that? You are not an expert.
I'm pretty sure BiT has acknowledged deliberately misgendering his brother-in-law's niece. He probably doesn't do so at work (if he has to interact with anyone who's transgender), but only because deliberately misgendering someone is an act of discrimination that could get his employer sued and himself fired. --Bob
I guess it came from other above average lawyers who felt that they've reached a point in their careers where they could make a 'difference'.
I hope that is just in the People's Insane Asylum of California.
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
Bless y'all's heart.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:25 pmI don't do much employment law. Our Employment Department usually represents employers, not plaintiffs. I understand they usually recommend that our clients fire such employees to avoid a lawsuit that would be indefensible because it's meritorious. In other words, it's the type of business we try to help our clients avoid giving us. --BobBeebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:21 pmMore business for you, eh?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:09 pmWhat makes you think there are any transgendered people who regret what they've done? Or more than a tiny handful, compared to the number of people who are happy they've transitioned? And in any event, how would the existence of such people excuse deliberately misgendering people who have no such regrets?
I'm pretty sure BiT has acknowledged deliberately misgendering his brother-in-law's niece. He probably doesn't do so at work (if he has to interact with anyone who's transgender), but only because deliberately misgendering someone is an act of discrimination that could get his employer sued and himself fired. --Bob
Well, then
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
Gender discrimination (and that's what this is) is against federal law, so you're SOL. You can thank the recent opinion written by Justice Gorsuch, construing the Fair Employment Act passed about 55 years ago. --Bobflockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:25 pmHow the hell did referring to a biological male as 'he' get to be against the law? Can I get a law that says people have to refer to me as 'Your Royal Highness' or I can sue them or get them fired?Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:21 pmMore business for you, eh?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:09 pmWhat makes you think there are any transgendered people who regret what they've done? Or more than a tiny handful, compared to the number of people who are happy they've transitioned? And in any event, how would the existence of such people excuse deliberately misgendering people who have no such regrets?
I'm pretty sure BiT has acknowledged deliberately misgendering his brother-in-law's niece. He probably doesn't do so at work (if he has to interact with anyone who's transgender), but only because deliberately misgendering someone is an act of discrimination that could get his employer sued and himself fired. --Bob
I guess it came from other above average lawyers who felt that they've reached a point in their careers where they could make a 'difference'.
I hope that is just in the People's Insane Asylum of California.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
I guess it only applies to English? Do people who speak Spanish, Swahili or Korean get a list of what pronouns they can use and not get sued?
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
If someone is deliberately and repeatedly misgendered in any language, it's actionable. I know that Spanish uses gendered nouns and pronouns. I don't know Swahili or Korean so I don't know whether those languages also use gendered nouns and pronouns to refer to people. --Bobflockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:16 pmI guess it only applies to English? Do people who speak Spanish, Swahili or Korean get a list of what pronouns they can use and not get sued?
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
I assume you're referring to Bostock v. Clayton County. Perhaps I'm wrong. To my untrained eye I think the issue there was about firing someone because they were gay or transsexual. Not firing someone else because they used the 'wrong' pronoun. I would tend to think the First Amendment would kind of take precedence.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:21 pmIf someone is deliberately and repeatedly misgendered in any language, it's actionable. I know that Spanish uses gendered nouns and pronouns. I don't know Swahili or Korean so I don't know whether those languages also use gendered nouns and pronouns to refer to people. --Bobflockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:16 pmI guess it only applies to English? Do people who speak Spanish, Swahili or Korean get a list of what pronouns they can use and not get sued?
I am not going to get into a legal argument with you. I think you have come to your conclusion because that is how, in your lawyerly fashion, with all your practise, you would interpret it. Not that that is what the decision actually said. And I have explained my position elsewhere. But if I decide, based on the situation, to refer to someone as 'he' or 'she', I am as free to do that as I am to refer to you as an asshole.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary snowflake... Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... Simpleton... gullible idiot... a coward who can't face facts... insufferable and obnoxious dumbass... the usual dum dum... idolatrous donkey-person!... Mouth-breathing moron... Dildo... Inferior thinker
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
The decision concluded that federal statutes against gender discrimination apply to transsexual employees and those in same-sex relationships. And creating a hostile environment is well established as an act of discrimination.flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:35 pmI assume you're referring to Bostock v. Clayton County. Perhaps I'm wrong. To my untrained eye I think the issue there was about firing someone because they were gay or transsexual. Not firing someone else because they used the 'wrong' pronoun. I would tend to think the First Amendment would kind of take precedence.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:21 pmIf someone is deliberately and repeatedly misgendered in any language, it's actionable. I know that Spanish uses gendered nouns and pronouns. I don't know Swahili or Korean so I don't know whether those languages also use gendered nouns and pronouns to refer to people. --Bobflockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:16 pmI guess it only applies to English? Do people who speak Spanish, Swahili or Korean get a list of what pronouns they can use and not get sued?
I am not going to get into a legal argument with you. I think you have come to your conclusion because that is how, in your lawyerly fashion, with all your practise, you would interpret it. Not that that is what the decision actually said. And I have explained my position elsewhere. But if I decide, based on the situation, to refer to someone as 'he' or 'she', I am as free to do that as I am to refer to you as an asshole.
But if you don't believe me, feel free to test your theory at your own place of business. Just be prepared to write a large check at the end of the day. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
Didn't I read just recently about a teacher who was awarded a significant sum after he was sanctioned for not using a student's preferred pronoun?
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You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
I didn't hear that, beebs. Thanks.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:43 pmThe decision concluded that federal statutes against gender discrimination apply to transsexual employees and those in same-sex relationships. And creating a hostile environment is well established as an act of discrimination.flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:35 pmI assume you're referring to Bostock v. Clayton County. Perhaps I'm wrong. To my untrained eye I think the issue there was about firing someone because they were gay or transsexual. Not firing someone else because they used the 'wrong' pronoun. I would tend to think the First Amendment would kind of take precedence.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:21 pmIf someone is deliberately and repeatedly misgendered in any language, it's actionable. I know that Spanish uses gendered nouns and pronouns. I don't know Swahili or Korean so I don't know whether those languages also use gendered nouns and pronouns to refer to people. --Bob
I am not going to get into a legal argument with you. I think you have come to your conclusion because that is how, in your lawyerly fashion, with all your practise, you would interpret it. Not that that is what the decision actually said. And I have explained my position elsewhere. But if I decide, based on the situation, to refer to someone as 'he' or 'she', I am as free to do that as I am to refer to you as an asshole.
But if you don't believe me, feel free to test your theory at your own place of business. Just be prepared to write a large check at the end of the day. --Bob
https://nypost.com/2022/04/18/professor ... -pronouns/
I don't believe you, bob.
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
Read the actual opinion. He didn't win the case. He avoided losing it on a motion to dismiss on the pleadings, and then the University settled. The case completely ignores Bostock, and it relies heavily on the fact that this was a public university.flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:02 pmI didn't hear that, beebs. Thanks.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:43 pmThe decision concluded that federal statutes against gender discrimination apply to transsexual employees and those in same-sex relationships. And creating a hostile environment is well established as an act of discrimination.flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:35 pmI assume you're referring to Bostock v. Clayton County. Perhaps I'm wrong. To my untrained eye I think the issue there was about firing someone because they were gay or transsexual. Not firing someone else because they used the 'wrong' pronoun. I would tend to think the First Amendment would kind of take precedence.
I am not going to get into a legal argument with you. I think you have come to your conclusion because that is how, in your lawyerly fashion, with all your practise, you would interpret it. Not that that is what the decision actually said. And I have explained my position elsewhere. But if I decide, based on the situation, to refer to someone as 'he' or 'she', I am as free to do that as I am to refer to you as an asshole.
But if you don't believe me, feel free to test your theory at your own place of business. Just be prepared to write a large check at the end of the day. --Bob
https://nypost.com/2022/04/18/professor ... -pronouns/
I don't believe you, bob.
But go ahead and take your chances. It's your money. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: If The Thomas Boy
The case was actually settled. The professor claimed that his rights to free speech and free exercise of religion had been infringed by the university (which was a state college). The trial court dismissed the case and the professor appealed. The Sixth Circuit reversed, saying that the District Court should not have dismissed the case because the professor might be able to win at trial. They did not say he had proved his case on the merits.
The Sixth Circuit held that the First Amendment protects the academic freedom of professors at a public university. Key language:
Thus, the academic-freedom exception covers all classroom speech related to matters of public concern, whether that speech is germane to the contents of the lecture or not. The need for the free exchange of ideas in the college classroom is unlike that in other public workplace settings. And a professor’s in-class speech to his students is anything but speech by an ordinary government employee.
This ruling does not apply to employers in general or even public employers in general or even "teachers" in general. It merely addresses the facts as alleged in the professor's complaint. And the facts as alleged in the complaint indicated that the school refused to compromise (he called the student in question "Doe" for the remainder of the semester instead of "Ms. Doe" as she requested) and that their investigation into the whole matter was rather slipshod. Again, these are allegations in the complaint, not anything that was proved at trial.
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