Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Re-Turn #1 and Verizon
Looks like I left a little money on the table. It is up fourteen cents since I sold.
Re-Turn #2 and AT&T
At this point, I could sell with a gain that is exactly the same as the dividend-about a 1.13% gain.
However, I don't have enough data points. I want to see what happens with Verizon after the dividend date next week, before I pull the trigger on AT&T prior to their dividend date.
I do have the AT&T shares listed at a point that would give me a pretty high return.
I don't have anything coming up except Colgate on April 20th with the lowest dividend in my potential target companies. That might be an interesting test, in and of itself.
Let's see-the quarterly dividend is just over half a percent.
I would definitely accept a 1% gain ahead of time to forego the dividend.
I have almost exactly enough proceeds from the 4 Verizon shares to buy 2 Colgate shares.
I am not sure if I want to be a long-term investor (LOL) in Colgate and buy this far ahead of April 20th.
Oh, Hell-who am I kidding?-we all know that I am going to buy Colgate right now.
Looks like I left a little money on the table. It is up fourteen cents since I sold.
Re-Turn #2 and AT&T
At this point, I could sell with a gain that is exactly the same as the dividend-about a 1.13% gain.
However, I don't have enough data points. I want to see what happens with Verizon after the dividend date next week, before I pull the trigger on AT&T prior to their dividend date.
I do have the AT&T shares listed at a point that would give me a pretty high return.
I don't have anything coming up except Colgate on April 20th with the lowest dividend in my potential target companies. That might be an interesting test, in and of itself.
Let's see-the quarterly dividend is just over half a percent.
I would definitely accept a 1% gain ahead of time to forego the dividend.
I have almost exactly enough proceeds from the 4 Verizon shares to buy 2 Colgate shares.
I am not sure if I want to be a long-term investor (LOL) in Colgate and buy this far ahead of April 20th.
Oh, Hell-who am I kidding?-we all know that I am going to buy Colgate right now.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Currently, Verizon is up 27 cents since I sold so it has having a good up day.
At first blush, one might think it has something to do with the dividend dates.
However, I think it is trading independently of that as:
AT&T is up 1.92% for the day
and Verizon is up 1.8% for the day.
These 2 companies in basically the same industry with dividend dates separated by a week are trading on the day at almost the same percentage gain.
Ideally, I would prefer to find that companies trade independent of their dividend dates.
This first data point indicates that this might be so.
At first blush, one might think it has something to do with the dividend dates.
However, I think it is trading independently of that as:
AT&T is up 1.92% for the day
and Verizon is up 1.8% for the day.
These 2 companies in basically the same industry with dividend dates separated by a week are trading on the day at almost the same percentage gain.
Ideally, I would prefer to find that companies trade independent of their dividend dates.
This first data point indicates that this might be so.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
AT&T and Verizon are still trading at points that are bracketed around the daily gain for the entire portfolio.
This means that they seem to be trading with the wider market and not based on any dividend dates.
Colgate scares me and I am predicting a loss on Turn 3. If I had any other options at this time I would not use it.
I may have bought it too early-Oh, well, part of the experiment.
I bought it at $80.20 a share and have it listed for sale at $80.99-not quite a 1% gain.
Quarterly dividend is $.47 with an ex-dividend date of April 20th.
This means that they seem to be trading with the wider market and not based on any dividend dates.
Colgate scares me and I am predicting a loss on Turn 3. If I had any other options at this time I would not use it.
I may have bought it too early-Oh, well, part of the experiment.
I bought it at $80.20 a share and have it listed for sale at $80.99-not quite a 1% gain.
Quarterly dividend is $.47 with an ex-dividend date of April 20th.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Because I am not using the "Same" money for each turn, I have a little more flexibility on the front and back ends than I envisioned and (possibly) to choose companies with similar dates.
I am looking at Turn #4 (Clorox) and Turn #5 (Con-Agra) with dates of April 26th and around April 28th, respectively.
Clorox looks like a company that might have a little more potential to buy early, with Con-Agra looking more like one that I could buy shortly before the Dividend dates.
They both have an annual dividend around 3.5%.
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And I am back with Turn #4 and Clorox in effect.
Bought Clorox for $146.50 and I have it listed for sale (for now) at $149.50.
Dividend is $1.16 per quarter with the April 26th Date of record and payment on May 13, 2022.
My spreadsheet is taking shape nicely.
I am looking at Turn #4 (Clorox) and Turn #5 (Con-Agra) with dates of April 26th and around April 28th, respectively.
Clorox looks like a company that might have a little more potential to buy early, with Con-Agra looking more like one that I could buy shortly before the Dividend dates.
They both have an annual dividend around 3.5%.
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And I am back with Turn #4 and Clorox in effect.
Bought Clorox for $146.50 and I have it listed for sale (for now) at $149.50.
Dividend is $1.16 per quarter with the April 26th Date of record and payment on May 13, 2022.
My spreadsheet is taking shape nicely.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
As we approach the end of the trading day, both AT&T and Verizon are both trading exactly 1.79% up.
This fits right with the portfolio gain of 1.91%.
Verizon has gained 27 cents since I sold this morning. I am comfortable with that.
I am struck how through sheer luck, we have an absolutely perfect start to this experiment.
With AT&T and Verizon, we have 2 companies in the same industry with the same dividend with relevant dates only a week apart.
Based on what others said early in the thread, early next week we should expect to see Verizon trading at a significant downward bias to AT&T.
I have no idea if that will happen or not, and really, (contrary to 5-second Google searches) neither does anyone else.
This is fun.
This fits right with the portfolio gain of 1.91%.
Verizon has gained 27 cents since I sold this morning. I am comfortable with that.
I am struck how through sheer luck, we have an absolutely perfect start to this experiment.
With AT&T and Verizon, we have 2 companies in the same industry with the same dividend with relevant dates only a week apart.
Based on what others said early in the thread, early next week we should expect to see Verizon trading at a significant downward bias to AT&T.
I have no idea if that will happen or not, and really, (contrary to 5-second Google searches) neither does anyone else.
This is fun.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Possible lesson learned #1,000,000,005.
I need to watch settlement dates. The settlement date is a few days after I buy the stock. I am not sure how that fits with shareholder of record.
It is possible that I might not have gotten the Verizon dividend anyway (since the purchase did not settle till today) so I am glad I took the clean gain today.
I just need to remember to buy a few days ahead of time to eliminate that possible problem.
Because I bought them early this won't be an issue with the other 3 turns I have going, but I was pushing it with Turn #2 and AT&T.
I need to watch settlement dates. The settlement date is a few days after I buy the stock. I am not sure how that fits with shareholder of record.
It is possible that I might not have gotten the Verizon dividend anyway (since the purchase did not settle till today) so I am glad I took the clean gain today.
I just need to remember to buy a few days ahead of time to eliminate that possible problem.
Because I bought them early this won't be an issue with the other 3 turns I have going, but I was pushing it with Turn #2 and AT&T.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
I was thinking about how the possible settlement date kerfuffle (see post above) might affect the comparison between AT&T and Verizon (see 2 posts above).
I think it still stands. Even if buyers can't buy AT&T early next week and get the dividend (and I do not know if that is the case) AT&T owners still need to hold through the week to get the dividend.
Whereas: Verizon dates of record should clear as of today. If sellers wait through Monday to be safe-any dividend related downward bias in Verizon compared to AT&T should show up by Tuesday (maybe Monday?).
Anyway, it is going to be a fun week to watch these 2 stocks. I have Colgate (Turn #3) and Clorox (Turn #4) on auto-pilot for now.
It just struck me that those 2 companies might be a pretty good test as well. Both are household Goods companies with a dates separated by about a week. The downside is that Colgate has a .83% lower annual dividend.
It might be fun to see if these 2 move in concert or separate-especially as pre-settlement dates approach for Colgate.
For the day; Colgate lost .21% and Clorox gained .23%. Not enough to matter.
Note:
AT&T closed at $24.14 which is 28 cents above what I paid yesterday. This gain is more than the upcoming 27 cent dividend.
If I had sold at close-I would have gained almost 1.2%
But, I have simply got to let AT&T ride a little as we see what happens next week.
I think it still stands. Even if buyers can't buy AT&T early next week and get the dividend (and I do not know if that is the case) AT&T owners still need to hold through the week to get the dividend.
Whereas: Verizon dates of record should clear as of today. If sellers wait through Monday to be safe-any dividend related downward bias in Verizon compared to AT&T should show up by Tuesday (maybe Monday?).
Anyway, it is going to be a fun week to watch these 2 stocks. I have Colgate (Turn #3) and Clorox (Turn #4) on auto-pilot for now.
It just struck me that those 2 companies might be a pretty good test as well. Both are household Goods companies with a dates separated by about a week. The downside is that Colgate has a .83% lower annual dividend.
It might be fun to see if these 2 move in concert or separate-especially as pre-settlement dates approach for Colgate.
For the day; Colgate lost .21% and Clorox gained .23%. Not enough to matter.
Note:
AT&T closed at $24.14 which is 28 cents above what I paid yesterday. This gain is more than the upcoming 27 cent dividend.
If I had sold at close-I would have gained almost 1.2%
But, I have simply got to let AT&T ride a little as we see what happens next week.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Oooh, Fun with stock screeners. I found Turn #5.
Heineken, with an annual dividend of 2.9%.
However, as with a lot of European type companies, they pay semi-annually instead of quarterly, so the relevant dividend would be 1.45% for me to play with.
Has an April 22 ex-dividend, so I will make a move on this on Monday.
I wonder if things will get funky as we approach the semi-annual dividend date.
Oh, well, if so-I plan to be there waiting for it.
Heineken, with an annual dividend of 2.9%.
However, as with a lot of European type companies, they pay semi-annually instead of quarterly, so the relevant dividend would be 1.45% for me to play with.
Has an April 22 ex-dividend, so I will make a move on this on Monday.
I wonder if things will get funky as we approach the semi-annual dividend date.
Oh, well, if so-I plan to be there waiting for it.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Oooh, more fun with European stocks.
I have owned Bayer for quite a few years. I haven't paid much attention to it, other than, being a European stock, it has an annual dividend so it is kind of boring.
Well, I guess I should say-"It WAS boring."
I just found Turn #6.
It's annual dividend rate is just above 3% all paid at one time with a May 2 date.
So that means I have the whole 3% to play with at one time.
Another one to buy Monday and sit on and see if things get funky towards the annual dividend time in a few weeks.
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Note: I may have missed this one. It has risen a lot in the last month-but then so has the rest of the portfolio so I can't fully attribute it to the upcoming dividend.
Besides it has risen way more in the last month than could be attributed to any upcoming dividend- Like over a third.
I feel more comfortable (in terms of the game) with Heineken than I do with Bayer.
I have owned Bayer for quite a few years. I haven't paid much attention to it, other than, being a European stock, it has an annual dividend so it is kind of boring.
Well, I guess I should say-"It WAS boring."
I just found Turn #6.
It's annual dividend rate is just above 3% all paid at one time with a May 2 date.
So that means I have the whole 3% to play with at one time.
Another one to buy Monday and sit on and see if things get funky towards the annual dividend time in a few weeks.
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Note: I may have missed this one. It has risen a lot in the last month-but then so has the rest of the portfolio so I can't fully attribute it to the upcoming dividend.
Besides it has risen way more in the last month than could be attributed to any upcoming dividend- Like over a third.
I feel more comfortable (in terms of the game) with Heineken than I do with Bayer.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Is everybody getting excited???? We are only 48 hours away from starting to see what happens with Verizon and AT&T next week.
My plan for Monday is to put Turn #5 and Heineken into effect. With the April 22 date and any settlement date issues and possible funkyness related to the semi-annual dividend, it is the time to make that move.
With the 1.45% dividend to play with, I will initially list it for sale at a price that would give me a 2% gain.
Upon reflection, I am going to hold off on Bayer for a awhile.
At this time, it might be too volatile for the game and it is too long till the May 2nd date to be backstopped by the 3% dividend.
My plan for Monday is to put Turn #5 and Heineken into effect. With the April 22 date and any settlement date issues and possible funkyness related to the semi-annual dividend, it is the time to make that move.
With the 1.45% dividend to play with, I will initially list it for sale at a price that would give me a 2% gain.
Upon reflection, I am going to hold off on Bayer for a awhile.
At this time, it might be too volatile for the game and it is too long till the May 2nd date to be backstopped by the 3% dividend.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
I am sure that everybody else is wondering (as I am) about the settlement date issue.
For now, for purposes of the game-I plan to buy early enough that settlement will occur ahead of the relevant dividend dates.
However, as an experiment (sort of independent of the game), I will buy one share of a company on the day ahead of the ex-dividend date so we can see if I get a dividend on it or not.
I have not yet identified the company for this experiment and it will not be one that is included in one of the Turns.
Obviously, this will help answer questions about how tight I can run the timing on the game.
As the game develops, I will also run similar experiments on the back side of the dividend dates as well.
For now, for purposes of the game-I plan to buy early enough that settlement will occur ahead of the relevant dividend dates.
However, as an experiment (sort of independent of the game), I will buy one share of a company on the day ahead of the ex-dividend date so we can see if I get a dividend on it or not.
I have not yet identified the company for this experiment and it will not be one that is included in one of the Turns.
Obviously, this will help answer questions about how tight I can run the timing on the game.
As the game develops, I will also run similar experiments on the back side of the dividend dates as well.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
I just noticed a fun twist with Heineken.
While they pay the dividends on a semi-annual basis, historically, they pay now (April 22 date) and then 3 months from now.
They did miss the second dividend in 2020, but paid last year.
This adds all kinds of possible funkiness to the game.
While they pay the dividends on a semi-annual basis, historically, they pay now (April 22 date) and then 3 months from now.
They did miss the second dividend in 2020, but paid last year.
This adds all kinds of possible funkiness to the game.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
The Heineken twist of the semi-annual dividend paid in two installments-3 month apart(see post above) gives our math people here at the Bored Hedge Fund (LOL)something to work on.
Current annual dividend is 2.88 % paid in the 2 installments 3 months apart.
So over 3 1/2 months, I would have the 2.88% to work.
Whereas, in a normal US company. with 4% dividend to work with over the same period, I would have 2% to work with.
I used 3 1/2 months as I need to buy some ahead of the date and hold it for a few days after.
Any thoughts?
My initial thought, is that I might not want to be holding Heineken after the July dividend. Our little experiment here is focused on answering that type of question over time.
Current annual dividend is 2.88 % paid in the 2 installments 3 months apart.
So over 3 1/2 months, I would have the 2.88% to work.
Whereas, in a normal US company. with 4% dividend to work with over the same period, I would have 2% to work with.
I used 3 1/2 months as I need to buy some ahead of the date and hold it for a few days after.
Any thoughts?
My initial thought, is that I might not want to be holding Heineken after the July dividend. Our little experiment here is focused on answering that type of question over time.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
A possible fun twist just popped up with AT&T that will affect the experiment.
One of my favorite things about owning individual stocks is that every once in awhile, there will be spinoffs and so forth so you suddenly own shares in 2 companies.
On Friday, AT&T announced the closing of a spinoff merger type deal thingie where shareholders of AT&T at closing will receive .241917 shares of Warner Bros Discovery for each share of AT&T they held at closing with the new company (WBD?) starting to trade on Monday.
I have no idea if I my AT&T shares (bought Thursday) will get the WBD shares or not-but it sure will be fun if I do get them through sheer luck. We will know this on Monday.
Note: While this may (or may not) affect the comparison between Verizon and AT&T for this quarter-in future quarters the comparison will be even cleaner.
One of my favorite things about owning individual stocks is that every once in awhile, there will be spinoffs and so forth so you suddenly own shares in 2 companies.
On Friday, AT&T announced the closing of a spinoff merger type deal thingie where shareholders of AT&T at closing will receive .241917 shares of Warner Bros Discovery for each share of AT&T they held at closing with the new company (WBD?) starting to trade on Monday.
I have no idea if I my AT&T shares (bought Thursday) will get the WBD shares or not-but it sure will be fun if I do get them through sheer luck. We will know this on Monday.
Note: While this may (or may not) affect the comparison between Verizon and AT&T for this quarter-in future quarters the comparison will be even cleaner.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
I have been thinking about how to to handle this random AT&T news (good or bad) in terms of the game.
I think we should treat it like any other Turn.
Note 1) If it turns out to be bad in terms of the game and I have to eat a loss on the shares, I am sure that those here who are emotionally invested in seeing the game fail would not let me cry "Special Circumstances."
Note 2) If Note 1 applies, it is only fair to treat good news the same way.
Note 3) While this is an extremely short-term strategy, I will always be fully invested in one company or another. Thus, good or bad news will happen as a random event. It is just interesting that this happened on Turn #2.
Note 4) It will still be interesting through the week to see what happens to Verizon and AT&T.
I think we should treat it like any other Turn.
Note 1) If it turns out to be bad in terms of the game and I have to eat a loss on the shares, I am sure that those here who are emotionally invested in seeing the game fail would not let me cry "Special Circumstances."
Note 2) If Note 1 applies, it is only fair to treat good news the same way.
Note 3) While this is an extremely short-term strategy, I will always be fully invested in one company or another. Thus, good or bad news will happen as a random event. It is just interesting that this happened on Turn #2.
Note 4) It will still be interesting through the week to see what happens to Verizon and AT&T.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
As Chief Investment Officer of the Bored Hedge Fund; I had a few thoughts this evening.
Because of the AT&T merger spinoff thingie that they announced Friday afternoon (see posts above); we have absolutely no idea what will happen with AT&T at the open on Monday morning.
It could open substantially higher or substantially lower.
Therefore, I am either going to substantially raise the price that I have my AT&T shares for sale at, or simply not list them for sale.
It doesn't make sense to artificially limit the upside going into Monday morning.
OTOH, if they open substantially lower, no harm-no foul by me raising the sale price.
Gee, this is fun-I wish I had invented the game earlier this winter.
Because of the AT&T merger spinoff thingie that they announced Friday afternoon (see posts above); we have absolutely no idea what will happen with AT&T at the open on Monday morning.
It could open substantially higher or substantially lower.
Therefore, I am either going to substantially raise the price that I have my AT&T shares for sale at, or simply not list them for sale.
It doesn't make sense to artificially limit the upside going into Monday morning.
OTOH, if they open substantially lower, no harm-no foul by me raising the sale price.
Gee, this is fun-I wish I had invented the game earlier this winter.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
While I was feeding cattle this morning; I was thinking about my spreadsheets and:
I realized that until now I have not internalized the importance of the breakeven number; which is the price I paid for the share(s) minus the dividend.
Because we are so early in the game, I have been focused on what price to list the shares for a potential gain prior to the dividend.
The breakeven number is what I need to keep in mind as I watch the price.
For example, I bought AT&T for $23.86 and the dividend is 27 cents so my breakeven is $23.59.
AT&T closed Friday at $24.14 with dividend dates towards the end of this coming week.
I am trying to conceptualize (and I will play with it on the spreadsheets) if using the breakeven number (after dividend dates) can be used as a one step method to get the percentage of gain or loss on the turn.
Can I subtract the breakeven number from the sales price and get the percentages that way?
Not sure how that plays out mathematically. I know I can get the Gain/Loss percentage in 2 steps treating the sales price/price paid and the dividends as 2 separate components of the problem.
I have 2 spreadsheets going-one is to keep track of individual turns and the other one is to identify potential companies and relevant dates.
If I do keep this going for awhile, once I have the spreadsheet built for one quarter the hardest part will be done. Except for the odd European companies with annual dividends and so forth-US companies with dates in April have dates in July have October have dates in January etc etc.
It is going to be harder once I get in the fields. I am not worried about the sales component as I can simply list the shares for sales at a price I would accept. Buying would be harder though.
I realized that until now I have not internalized the importance of the breakeven number; which is the price I paid for the share(s) minus the dividend.
Because we are so early in the game, I have been focused on what price to list the shares for a potential gain prior to the dividend.
The breakeven number is what I need to keep in mind as I watch the price.
For example, I bought AT&T for $23.86 and the dividend is 27 cents so my breakeven is $23.59.
AT&T closed Friday at $24.14 with dividend dates towards the end of this coming week.
I am trying to conceptualize (and I will play with it on the spreadsheets) if using the breakeven number (after dividend dates) can be used as a one step method to get the percentage of gain or loss on the turn.
Can I subtract the breakeven number from the sales price and get the percentages that way?
Not sure how that plays out mathematically. I know I can get the Gain/Loss percentage in 2 steps treating the sales price/price paid and the dividends as 2 separate components of the problem.
I have 2 spreadsheets going-one is to keep track of individual turns and the other one is to identify potential companies and relevant dates.
If I do keep this going for awhile, once I have the spreadsheet built for one quarter the hardest part will be done. Except for the odd European companies with annual dividends and so forth-US companies with dates in April have dates in July have October have dates in January etc etc.
It is going to be harder once I get in the fields. I am not worried about the sales component as I can simply list the shares for sales at a price I would accept. Buying would be harder though.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Well, the Bored Hedge Fund has certainly had an interesting first 5 days.
All I can say is "Holy Frickin' Crap" -we got the Warner Brothers Discovery shares in the spinoff for AT&T shares that I purchased Thursday (for the game) and Friday (as a long-term investment).
Prior to trading they are listed at $24.47 a share. (See posts above for discussion of the spinoff)
Times .241917 or so
equals about $5.90 per AT&T share.
Now even if AT&T collapses Monday because of the spinoff-it will essentially be a wash.
This might answer the question about if I will get the dividend on shares that I purchase the day before the dividend date-meaning, I could run this game really tight in time if I so choose.
All I can say is "Holy Frickin' Crap" -we got the Warner Brothers Discovery shares in the spinoff for AT&T shares that I purchased Thursday (for the game) and Friday (as a long-term investment).
Prior to trading they are listed at $24.47 a share. (See posts above for discussion of the spinoff)
Times .241917 or so
equals about $5.90 per AT&T share.
Now even if AT&T collapses Monday because of the spinoff-it will essentially be a wash.
This might answer the question about if I will get the dividend on shares that I purchase the day before the dividend date-meaning, I could run this game really tight in time if I so choose.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Based on the fact that I got the AT&T spin-off shares of WBD even though I bought them on the day the spinoff shares were allotted; I am going to assume that I can buy shares just a couple of days ahead of the dividend dates and still get the dividends.
So the fun starts in earnest tomorrow:
As of right now; I have 3 companies that I will make a move on in the morning. Subject to change if they go up a lot before I can get to them.
Turn #5 and Turn #6 will be Footlocker and The Buckle. Both of these apparel retail type companies go ex-dividend on April 13.
I have never owned a retail or apparel company in the portfolio. I avoid them like the plague. However, they both have nice dividends and it will be fun playing with companies like this.
Turn #7 is slated to be "Banco Santander-Chile" which goes Ex-Dividend on April 21.
This New York Stock Exchange Company is paying a 5.74% annual dividend all at once.
Re-Verizon
If anybody is too excited too wait for me to post what is going on with Verizon tomorrow and you want to check it first.
Remember, if it is down, you can't simply attribute that to the dividend being done last week. You also have to look at what the wider market is doing and maybe even glance at the telecommunications sector as well to get an idea as to what might be going on.
So the fun starts in earnest tomorrow:
As of right now; I have 3 companies that I will make a move on in the morning. Subject to change if they go up a lot before I can get to them.
Turn #5 and Turn #6 will be Footlocker and The Buckle. Both of these apparel retail type companies go ex-dividend on April 13.
I have never owned a retail or apparel company in the portfolio. I avoid them like the plague. However, they both have nice dividends and it will be fun playing with companies like this.
Turn #7 is slated to be "Banco Santander-Chile" which goes Ex-Dividend on April 21.
This New York Stock Exchange Company is paying a 5.74% annual dividend all at once.
Re-Verizon
If anybody is too excited too wait for me to post what is going on with Verizon tomorrow and you want to check it first.
Remember, if it is down, you can't simply attribute that to the dividend being done last week. You also have to look at what the wider market is doing and maybe even glance at the telecommunications sector as well to get an idea as to what might be going on.
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Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Normally, I will never post anything on the pre-markets.
However, this early in the game-and given the AT&T spin-off it is fun to have some new info after the weekend.
Verizon is down 3 cents in the pre-market. According to the "Five Seconds on Google" experts early in this thread, we would have expected Verizon to be down a lot in the pre-market as the dividend dates cleared last week.
AT&T is down $5.87 or about 22% to $18.85. Remember, I paid about $24.
We won't have a trade on Warner Brothers Discovery spin-off shares until markets open at which point we will know more about how I am sitting with AT&T.
I might end up owning AT&T for awhile until this spin-off works its way through the system.
Periodic reminder: This extremely short-term strategy goes against my inclinations as I am a long-term investor who tends to hold stocks for decades. However, I still view this as a long-term strategy as I will always be invested in one company or another and I am just running an experiment backstopped by dividends to see if there is any money on the table around dividend dates.
I love owning individual stocks and (as I said earlier) one of my favorite things about owning individual companies is that every once in awhile you get a spin-off and end up owning stock in 2 companies.
The classic example in my portfolio is Phillip Morris which I bought at a low price 20 years ago in the wake of the tobacco lawsuits and has since turned into 4 companies.
Through sheer luck (and due solely to the game) I decided to make a long-term buy on AT&T on Friday. I got the Warner Brothers Discovery shares due to me owning the shares on the day of record.
I have never owned a media company before, so I have new diversification in the portfolio. I plan to sit on those long-term ones for awhile. I don't know what I will do with the "game" spin-off shares.
Markets open in a half-hour.

However, this early in the game-and given the AT&T spin-off it is fun to have some new info after the weekend.
Verizon is down 3 cents in the pre-market. According to the "Five Seconds on Google" experts early in this thread, we would have expected Verizon to be down a lot in the pre-market as the dividend dates cleared last week.
AT&T is down $5.87 or about 22% to $18.85. Remember, I paid about $24.
We won't have a trade on Warner Brothers Discovery spin-off shares until markets open at which point we will know more about how I am sitting with AT&T.
I might end up owning AT&T for awhile until this spin-off works its way through the system.
Periodic reminder: This extremely short-term strategy goes against my inclinations as I am a long-term investor who tends to hold stocks for decades. However, I still view this as a long-term strategy as I will always be invested in one company or another and I am just running an experiment backstopped by dividends to see if there is any money on the table around dividend dates.
I love owning individual stocks and (as I said earlier) one of my favorite things about owning individual companies is that every once in awhile you get a spin-off and end up owning stock in 2 companies.
The classic example in my portfolio is Phillip Morris which I bought at a low price 20 years ago in the wake of the tobacco lawsuits and has since turned into 4 companies.
Through sheer luck (and due solely to the game) I decided to make a long-term buy on AT&T on Friday. I got the Warner Brothers Discovery shares due to me owning the shares on the day of record.
I have never owned a media company before, so I have new diversification in the portfolio. I plan to sit on those long-term ones for awhile. I don't know what I will do with the "game" spin-off shares.
Markets open in a half-hour.







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- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 pm
Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
There was definitely money on the Verizon table around the dividend dates. Verizon is up a fair bit today on the day after the dividend date of record.
I bought Verizon last Tuesday and sold it on Friday for a 1.38% gain. However, I will not get the dividend on these shares.
If I had held until this morning and sold right away I would have gotten the dividend so with the dividend plus the extra gain since my sale on Friday-I would have picked up an additional 2.4% gain.
In a game (or experiment) where I am playing around for gains of 1 to 2 percent gains over a very short term, this is substantial.
I put 7 turns into effect this morning. A quick list of those turns later and I will also look at what is going on the AT&T thing later in the day.
I bought Verizon last Tuesday and sold it on Friday for a 1.38% gain. However, I will not get the dividend on these shares.
If I had held until this morning and sold right away I would have gotten the dividend so with the dividend plus the extra gain since my sale on Friday-I would have picked up an additional 2.4% gain.
In a game (or experiment) where I am playing around for gains of 1 to 2 percent gains over a very short term, this is substantial.
I put 7 turns into effect this morning. A quick list of those turns later and I will also look at what is going on the AT&T thing later in the day.
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- Posts: 4807
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 pm
Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
My spreadsheets just got more complicated. I had envisioned buying and selling as one package-But:
I just sold a portion of Footlocker (with an April 13th date and bought this morning) for a 4% gain. That was too much money to leave totally on the table for an hour of holding the stock.
So, I have to adjust my spreadsheets to handle partial sales and so forth.
I just sold a portion of Footlocker (with an April 13th date and bought this morning) for a 4% gain. That was too much money to leave totally on the table for an hour of holding the stock.
So, I have to adjust my spreadsheets to handle partial sales and so forth.
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- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 pm
Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
I think the main takeaway from the first week of the Bored Hedge Fund is that given the price behavior of Verizon my plan has the potential to work.
Don't worry, I won't swamp you with endless info about my open turns, so unless something interesting happens I will focus on updating that part of this when I close a turn.
I did completely close Footlocker this morning for a 3.4% gain after an hour and a half of ownership. It was too much fun not too.
While I haven't a chance to take a close look at my 7 purchases this morning, my quick take is that I will probably want to make the buys the week prior to the Dividend dates.
I will update AT&T and spin-off related info this evening.
Don't worry, I won't swamp you with endless info about my open turns, so unless something interesting happens I will focus on updating that part of this when I close a turn.
I did completely close Footlocker this morning for a 3.4% gain after an hour and a half of ownership. It was too much fun not too.
While I haven't a chance to take a close look at my 7 purchases this morning, my quick take is that I will probably want to make the buys the week prior to the Dividend dates.
I will update AT&T and spin-off related info this evening.
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- Posts: 4807
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 pm
Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
Closed Clorox (Bought Friday-Sold Today) for a 1.8% Gain.
This is one of the lowest dividend stocks in my list so the 2-day gain is more than double the potential dividend.
My main takeaway is that Clorox was bouncing all over the place today-way up, then way down as I was trying to sell it and gave up-then a couple hours later when I got the chance to look at it it was back up again so I sold it.
Since then, about 1:30-it had gone down about a dollar a share until I had the chance to check it again.
Damn, if I am going to be serious about this I might have to get a smart phone (I have a flip phone) so I can keep an eye on iy during the day.
This is one of the lowest dividend stocks in my list so the 2-day gain is more than double the potential dividend.
My main takeaway is that Clorox was bouncing all over the place today-way up, then way down as I was trying to sell it and gave up-then a couple hours later when I got the chance to look at it it was back up again so I sold it.
Since then, about 1:30-it had gone down about a dollar a share until I had the chance to check it again.
Damn, if I am going to be serious about this I might have to get a smart phone (I have a flip phone) so I can keep an eye on iy during the day.
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- Posts: 4807
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 pm
Re: Fun With Dividends-A Thought Exercise
In the interest of full disclosure, I made the decision over the weekend to standardize (as much as possible) the turns and I chose to use $500 as the basic size of the turn. I will buy as many whole shares that I can purchase for $500. For example, if a stock costs $24, I will purchase 20 shares. OTOH, if it costs $373, I will purchase 1 share.
Another reason I decided to do this is to make it (potentially) a little more worth my time to conduct the experiment. I might as well be playing for five or ten bucks instead of a buck or so.
Re-AT&T
The first full day of trading on the spinoff thing is behind us and when I add the value of the AT&T shares and the allocated WBD shares I get an adjusted value at today's close of an old AT&T share to be $25.57.
I paid $23.86 a share on Thursday, April 7th.
So at close today, I am sitting on a potential gain of 7% on the AT&T trade.
Once again, as I said earlier-the main takeaway from the last week is that the price behavior of Verizon shares around the dividend dates is initial proof of concept that my strategy has potential.
Another reason I decided to do this is to make it (potentially) a little more worth my time to conduct the experiment. I might as well be playing for five or ten bucks instead of a buck or so.
Re-AT&T
The first full day of trading on the spinoff thing is behind us and when I add the value of the AT&T shares and the allocated WBD shares I get an adjusted value at today's close of an old AT&T share to be $25.57.
I paid $23.86 a share on Thursday, April 7th.
So at close today, I am sitting on a potential gain of 7% on the AT&T trade.
Once again, as I said earlier-the main takeaway from the last week is that the price behavior of Verizon shares around the dividend dates is initial proof of concept that my strategy has potential.