Peter Hitchens on the Ukraine

[Spock]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... crisy.html

"PETER HITCHENS: One glorious day in Sevastopol 12 years ago, I saw what was coming. That's why I won't join this carnival of hypocrisy"

Posted without comment.

[Bob78164]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... crisy.html

"PETER HITCHENS: One glorious day in Sevastopol 12 years ago, I saw what was coming. That's why I won't join this carnival of hypocrisy"

Posted without comment.

The correct usage is "Ukraine," not "the Ukraine." The latter is the Russian usage. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... crisy.html

"PETER HITCHENS: One glorious day in Sevastopol 12 years ago, I saw what was coming. That's why I won't join this carnival of hypocrisy"

Posted without comment.

The correct usage is "Ukraine," not "the Ukraine." The latter is the Russian usage. --Bob

What I've found out, Spock.
You've gone through the trouble of posting a link that details someone else's viewpoint on a current event. It might have some relevance and even some insights that deserve consideration.

Bob's response?

Is it even worth it?

[silverscreenselect]

Quick thoughts:

1) What Hitchens accuses the Ukraineans of doing is promoting ethnic nationalism and a "whitewashed" version of history at the expense of a minority population that doesn't speak the national language. Gee, sort of like right wingers here in the United States.

2) The Russians doubtless expected Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine to welcome them with open arms as liberators. Instead, nationalist sentiment is at an all-time high there as well as in the rest of the country.

3) The path from corrupt autocracies to democracies isn't smooth, and no one said that Ukraine was perfect before the election. But comparing Ukraine to Russia as some sort of equals ignores reality. Further, the current government was not put in place in 2014 through a US-backed "mob putsch" but as the result of an election in 2019.

4) NATO did not "egg on" Ukraine to resist Russia. Putin has long had demands on Ukraine, which he views as part of greater Russia (the entire country, not just certain ethnic parts of it). It shouldn't be part of Russia's business with whom Ukraine or any of its neighbors tries to ally itself.

5) Viktor Medvedchuk was under house arrest for channeling funds to the separatist militias in Ukraine including funds coming from Crimean oil. That's the definition of treason in most countries.

[Beebs52]

whitewashed" version of history at the expense of a minority population that doesn't speak the national language. Gee, sort of like right wingers here in the United States.

SSS, this is why peeps MIGHT get annoyed occasionally. You bring shit into the discussion that is irrelevant to the immediate discussion. If that doesn't make sense to you, you're guiltu of what you accuse your opponents of. It's just ridiculous.

[flockofseagulls104]

whitewashed" version of history at the expense of a minority population that doesn't speak the national language. Gee, sort of like right wingers here in the United States.

SSS, this is why peeps MIGHT get annoyed occasionally. You bring shit into the discussion that is irrelevant to the immediate discussion. If that doesn't make sense to you, you're guiltu of what you accuse your opponents of. It's just ridiculous.

In the VP thread, before it got distracted, I showed exactly what the stalker is and how he operates. He really is only fit to be ignored.

Well, he is pretty good with celebrity and pop culture nonsense. I will grant him expert status on that. I won't dispute him in that area.

---
AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT...
The stalker's response:

He should preface every post he makes with "Flock, you ignorant slut...."

[tlynn78]

whitewashed" version of history at the expense of a minority population that doesn't speak the national language. Gee, sort of like right wingers here in the United States.

SSS, this is why peeps MIGHT get annoyed occasionally. You bring shit into the discussion that is irrelevant to the immediate discussion. If that doesn't make sense to you, you're guiltu of what you accuse your opponents of. It's just ridiculous.

In the VP thread, before it got distracted, I showed exactly what the stalker is and how he operates. He really is only fit to be ignored.

Well, he is pretty good with celebrity and pop culture nonsense. I will grant him expert status on that. I won't dispute him in that area.

---
AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT...
The stalker's response:

He should preface every post he makes with "Flock, you ignorant slut...."

Now that's funny right there.

[silverscreenselect]

In the streets of that elegant city, with its porticoes and statues and monuments to repeated wars, sailors from the two fleets mingled on the pavements. The Russians looked like Russians, with their huge hats and Edwardian uniforms. The Ukrainians looked more like the US Navy on shore leave in San Diego. It was almost funny to see. I hoped at that time that it would work out well. For the Ukrainians had begun to be silly.

Peter Hitchens has the same fascination with spiffy uniforms that Spock and Matt Walsh do. Somehow, those uniforms don't seem to matter much when the bullets start flying.