Texas is in play

[Spock]

I have been chuckling this morning about the fate of Austin in an ever-bluer Texas. Up until now, they have had the luxury of both worlds. They can do the whole "Keep Austin Weird" thing and vote as far-left as they want. However, they have been protected from the negative results of their voting habits at the state-wide level and can thus piggyback on the Texas economic miracle and other conservative policies.

In an ever-bluer Texas, they won't have that luxury and they will increasingly get the policies they are voting for and they will get them good and hard. Have to grab a box of popcorn and watch that for awhile. That should be fun.

SSSS>>>"But what do those scientists know in comparison to you and your country vet buddy who heard about an 89-year-old woman."<<<

I threw him out there as bait for you as I knew you couldn't resist a personal slam. I guess in your world someone with a PHD in veterinary EPIDEMIOLOGY is simply a "Country Vet." But, the man does know something about epidemiology with wide experience and knowledge in how diseases spread in populations.

[Bob78164]

I have been chuckling this morning about the fate of Austin in an ever-bluer Texas. Up until now, they have had the luxury of both worlds. They can do the whole "Keep Austin Weird" thing and vote as far-left as they want. However, they have been protected from the negative results of their voting habits at the state-wide level and can thus piggyback on the Texas economic miracle and other conservative policies.

In an ever-bluer Texas, they won't have that luxury and they will increasingly get the policies they are voting for and they will get them good and hard. Have to grab a box of popcorn and watch that for awhile. That should be fun.

SSSS>>>"But what do those scientists know in comparison to you and your country vet buddy who heard about an 89-year-old woman."<<<

I threw him out there as bait for you as I knew you couldn't resist a personal slam. I guess in your world someone with a PHD in veterinary EPIDEMIOLOGY is simply a "Country Vet." But, the man does know something about epidemiology with wide experience and knowledge in how diseases spread in populations.

Because, of course, the social behavior of animals is an excellent proxy for the social behavior of humans. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

SSSS>>>"But what do those scientists know in comparison to you and your country vet buddy who heard about an 89-year-old woman."<<<

I threw him out there as bait for you as I knew you couldn't resist a personal slam. I guess in your world someone with a PHD in veterinary EPIDEMIOLOGY is simply a "Country Vet." But, the man does know something about epidemiology with wide experience and knowledge in how diseases spread in populations.

Forgive me. I should have said what do you and one country vet with a PhD in veterinary epidemiology know compared to the overwhelming consensus of world experts in human epidemiology who have been studying the coronavirus for months and similar diseases for years.

[Spock]

SSSS>>>"But what do those scientists know in comparison to you and your country vet buddy who heard about an 89-year-old woman."<<<

I threw him out there as bait for you as I knew you couldn't resist a personal slam. I guess in your world someone with a PHD in veterinary EPIDEMIOLOGY is simply a "Country Vet." But, the man does know something about epidemiology with wide experience and knowledge in how diseases spread in populations.

*

Forgive me. I should have said what do you and one country vet with a PhD in veterinary epidemiology know compared to the overwhelming consensus of world experts in human epidemiology who have been studying the coronavirus for months and similar diseases for years.

One thought about my cousin-in-law with the PHD in Veterinary Epidemiology.

Remember Covid is supposedly a zoonotic* disease which puts it right in his wheelhouse.

*Defining Zoonotic for SSS-It means transferred from animals to humans.

[Bob78164]

SSSS>>>"But what do those scientists know in comparison to you and your country vet buddy who heard about an 89-year-old woman."<<<

I threw him out there as bait for you as I knew you couldn't resist a personal slam. I guess in your world someone with a PHD in veterinary EPIDEMIOLOGY is simply a "Country Vet." But, the man does know something about epidemiology with wide experience and knowledge in how diseases spread in populations.

*

Forgive me. I should have said what do you and one country vet with a PhD in veterinary epidemiology know compared to the overwhelming consensus of world experts in human epidemiology who have been studying the coronavirus for months and similar diseases for years.

One thought about my cousin-in-law with the PHD in Veterinary Epidemiology.

Remember Covid is supposedly a zoonotic* disease which puts it right in his wheelhouse.

*Defining Zoonotic for SSS-It means transferred from animals to humans.

Are you just trolling us, Spock, or are you really this stupid?

Epidemiology is the study of how diseases spread within populations. The manner in which a disease spreads within a population of animals has virtually nothing to teach us about the manner in which it spreads within a population of humans. And disease-control techniques that are entirely appropriate when applied to animals are hideously inappropriate when applied to humans. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

And disease-control techniques that are entirely appropriate when applied to animals are hideously inappropriate when applied to humans. --Bob

The reverse is also true. You can't teach animals to wear masks or socially distance. Of course, you can't teach many supporters of Donald Trump either.

[Spock]

Oh, BTW-I don't just have my "Country Vet Buddy" arguing against lockdowns and restrictions.

I will see your "Country Vet Buddy" meme and raise you the Great Barrington Declaration signed by a few dozen doctors calling into question current Covid policies.

https://gbdeclaration.org/

>>>"The Great Barrington Declaration – As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection. <<<""

More, obviously at the link. Including the professional background on the main signers and co-signers.

Note that on the Signatures page-in addition to the main guys referenced above-there are 11,334 medical and public health scientists and 32,107 medical practitioners noted as signing the document.

[Bob78164]

Oh, BTW-I don't just have my "Country Vet Buddy" arguing against lockdowns and restrictions.

I will see your "Country Vet Buddy" meme and raise you the Great Barrington Declaration signed by a few dozen doctors calling into question current Covid policies.

https://gbdeclaration.org/

>>>"The Great Barrington Declaration – As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection. <<<""

More, obviously at the link. Including the professional background on the main signers and co-signers.

Note that on the Signatures page-in addition to the main guys referenced above-there are 11,334 medical and public health scientists and 32,107 medical practitioners noted as signing the document.

What is the professional background of signatories such as Dr. I.P. Daily and Donald Duck? (You did realize those were actual signatories, didn't you?) --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

What is the professional background of signatories such as Dr. I.P. Daily and Donald Duck? (You did realize those were actual signatories, didn't you?) --Bob

I've heard that Donald Duck is a quack.

[Bob Juch]

And disease-control techniques that are entirely appropriate when applied to animals are hideously inappropriate when applied to humans. --Bob

The reverse is also true. You can't teach animals to wear masks or socially distance. Of course, you can't teach many supporters of Donald Trump either.

[Spock]

What is the professional background of signatories such as Dr. I.P. Daily and Donald Duck? (You did realize those were actual signatories, didn't you?) --Bob

I've heard that Donald Duck is a quack.

I figured there are some joke signatures in the public signing spaces-but I note that you guys totally ignored the 30, or whatever, main signers and co-signers.

It really doesn't matter that "Donald Duck" signed it. What matters is ,picking at random from the main co-signers, that Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland; signed it

and that;Dr. Gerhard Krönke, physician and professor of translational immunology, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany; signed it.

and that, Dr. Lisa White, professor of modelling and epidemiology, Oxford University, England; signed it.

Or are these guys all quacks too?

[silverscreenselect]

What matters is ,picking at random from the main co-signers, that Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland; signed it

Whether you have three or thirty people, the facts tend to disprove their contention. Sweden, which adopted a modified version of the herd immunity theory, wound up with case and death tolls 4 to 5 times their Scandinavian neighbors (and they didn't relax restrictions as much as some US states have). And here in the US, every time there has been a slacking off on the various restrictions, we get enormous case and hospitalization spikes.

No one is saying we need to quarantine forever, but we refuse to take the type of testing and contact tracing measures necessary to get a proper handle on this pandemic. It's not tough. Japan did it; South Korea did it; Australia did it. What they didn't do is turn this into a bogus political issue.

[Spock]

What matters is ,picking at random from the main co-signers, that Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland; signed it

Whether you have three or thirty people, the facts tend to disprove their contention. Sweden, which adopted a modified version of the herd immunity theory, wound up with case and death tolls 4 to 5 times their Scandinavian neighbors (and they didn't relax restrictions as much as some US states have). And here in the US, every time there has been a slacking off on the various restrictions, we get enormous case and hospitalization spikes.

No one is saying we need to quarantine forever, but we refuse to take the type of testing and contact tracing measures necessary to get a proper handle on this pandemic. It's not tough. Japan did it; South Korea did it; Australia did it. What they didn't do is turn this into a bogus political issue.

Hmm, do I trust the opinion of Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry or do I trust SSS's assertions that his contentions have been disproved. Tough one, there.

Funny how a few weeks ago you were trumpeting a letter from some economists who wrote against a Trump re-election. I guess some letters matter and some don't.

[Bob78164]

What matters is ,picking at random from the main co-signers, that Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland; signed it

Whether you have three or thirty people, the facts tend to disprove their contention. Sweden, which adopted a modified version of the herd immunity theory, wound up with case and death tolls 4 to 5 times their Scandinavian neighbors (and they didn't relax restrictions as much as some US states have). And here in the US, every time there has been a slacking off on the various restrictions, we get enormous case and hospitalization spikes.

No one is saying we need to quarantine forever, but we refuse to take the type of testing and contact tracing measures necessary to get a proper handle on this pandemic. It's not tough. Japan did it; South Korea did it; Australia did it. What they didn't do is turn this into a bogus political issue.

Hmm, do I trust the opinion of Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry or do I trust SSS's assertions that his contentions have been disproved. Tough one, there.

Funny how a few weeks ago you were trumpeting a letter from some economists who wrote against a Trump re-election. I guess some letters matter and some don't.

That's exactly right. The letters that back up their opinions with evidence and analysis matter. The ones that parrot political conclusions that are contrary to the evidence and aren't based on analysis do not.

Or, to put it in elementary school terms, show your work. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

Hmm, do I trust the opinion of Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry or do I trust SSS's assertions that his contentions have been disproved. Tough one, there.

How does Dr. Levitt explain the disparity in cases between Sweden and its neighbors? How does he explain the current spike in cases? How does he explain the fact that statistics in the US are significantly worse than in other Western countries? How does he explain the fact that countries like Korea, Japan, and Australia have stopped the virus?

My assertions are statements of fact. I'm curious to know how he explains them away.

[Bob Juch]

What matters is, picking at random from the main co-signers, that Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland; signed it

Whether you have three or thirty people, the facts tend to disprove their contention. Sweden, which adopted a modified version of the herd immunity theory, wound up with case and death tolls 4 to 5 times their Scandinavian neighbors (and they didn't relax restrictions as much as some US states have). And here in the US, every time there has been a slacking off on the various restrictions, we get enormous case and hospitalization spikes.

No one is saying we need to quarantine forever, but we refuse to take the type of testing and contact tracing measures necessary to get a proper handle on this pandemic. It's not tough. Japan did it; South Korea did it; Australia did it. What they didn't do is turn this into a bogus political issue.

Hmm, do I trust the opinion of Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry or do I trust SSS's assertions that his contentions have been disproved. Tough one, there.

Funny how a few weeks ago you were trumpeting a letter from some economists who wrote against a Trump re-election. I guess some letters matter and some don't.

His Nobel Prize was for "the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems."

[Spock]

Hmm, do I trust the opinion of Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry or do I trust SSS's assertions that his contentions have been disproved. Tough one, there.

How does Dr. Levitt explain the disparity in cases between Sweden and its neighbors? How does he explain the current spike in cases? How does he explain the fact that statistics in the US are significantly worse than in other Western countries? How does he explain the fact that countries like Korea, Japan, and Australia have stopped the virus?

My assertions are statements of fact. I'm curious to know how he explains them away.

Well, you have the internet and I am guessing he has an e-mail. Ask away.

In simplistic medical terms, I am thinking that the signers of the October 4, 2020 Great Barrington Declaration who essentially are doing a Martin Luther thing-"Here I Stand, I Can Do No Other" are in favor of treating the whole patient.

Oh,and BTW-the latest Sweden numbers might not be as bad as you hope they are. And no. I don't feel like spoon-feeding it to you. Spend 30 seconds and do your research on it.

But, I will give you one anyway.

https://twitter.com/BenGoldsmith/status ... 76/photo/1

and another one
>>>>"Most of Europe headed into another deadly lockdown

Sweden has life back to normal pretty much now. Average 2 deaths a day"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[Estonut]

Whether you have three or thirty people, the facts tend to disprove their contention. Sweden, which adopted a modified version of the herd immunity theory, wound up with case and death tolls 4 to 5 times their Scandinavian neighbors (and they didn't relax restrictions as much as some US states have). And here in the US, every time there has been a slacking off on the various restrictions, we get enormous case and hospitalization spikes.

No one is saying we need to quarantine forever, but we refuse to take the type of testing and contact tracing measures necessary to get a proper handle on this pandemic. It's not tough. Japan did it; South Korea did it; Australia did it. What they didn't do is turn this into a bogus political issue.

Hmm, do I trust the opinion of Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry or do I trust SSS's assertions that his contentions have been disproved. Tough one, there.

Funny how a few weeks ago you were trumpeting a letter from some economists who wrote against a Trump re-election. I guess some letters matter and some don't.

That's exactly right. The letters that back up their opinions with evidence and analysis matter. The ones that parrot political conclusions that are contrary to the evidence and aren't based on analysis do not.

Or, to put it in elementary school terms, show your work.

Does this apply to Biden's letter signed by "50 former intelligence officials," too? I read the letter. It DOES NOT say that the laptop scandal is Russian disinformation, as Joe claimed. It actually says that NONE of them has seen the information, but that it could be Russian disinformation. The FBI, who has been in possession of the laptop since December 2019 says there is ZERO evidence on which to base that assertion. I'm sure they've looked for it.

[Bob78164]

Hmm, do I trust the opinion of Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry or do I trust SSS's assertions that his contentions have been disproved. Tough one, there.

Funny how a few weeks ago you were trumpeting a letter from some economists who wrote against a Trump re-election. I guess some letters matter and some don't.

That's exactly right. The letters that back up their opinions with evidence and analysis matter. The ones that parrot political conclusions that are contrary to the evidence and aren't based on analysis do not.

Or, to put it in elementary school terms, show your work.

Does this apply to Biden's letter signed by "50 former intelligence officials," too? I read the letter. It DOES NOT say that the laptop scandal is Russian disinformation, as Joe claimed. It actually says that NONE of them has seen the information, but that it could be Russian disinformation. The FBI, who has been in possession of the laptop since December 2019 says there is ZERO evidence on which to base that assertion. I'm sure they've looked for it.

It does. The letter explained exactly the factors that led them to that conclusion.

Show me where the FBI (as opposed to some political appointee) said that there's no evidence on which to base the assertion that it's Russian disinformation. --Bob

[Spock]

Whether you have three or thirty people, the facts tend to disprove their contention. Sweden, which adopted a modified version of the herd immunity theory, wound up with case and death tolls 4 to 5 times their Scandinavian neighbors (and they didn't relax restrictions as much as some US states have). And here in the US, every time there has been a slacking off on the various restrictions, we get enormous case and hospitalization spikes.

No one is saying we need to quarantine forever, but we refuse to take the type of testing and contact tracing measures necessary to get a proper handle on this pandemic. It's not tough. Japan did it; South Korea did it; Australia did it. What they didn't do is turn this into a bogus political issue.

Hmm, do I trust the opinion of Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry or do I trust SSS's assertions that his contentions have been disproved. Tough one, there.

Funny how a few weeks ago you were trumpeting a letter from some economists who wrote against a Trump re-election. I guess some letters matter and some don't.

That's exactly right. The letters that back up their opinions with evidence and analysis matter. The ones that parrot political conclusions that are contrary to the evidence and aren't based on analysis do not.

Or, to put it in elementary school terms, show your work. --Bob

I will break my blocking of you to note how blithely you guys moved the goalposts. Yesterday, it was let's all make fun of Spock=the ignorant, Trump voting, Minnesota farmer who has no scientific backing for his opinions.

Today, after giving many scientists with impeccable credentials "my scientists" are just "parroting political conclusions." Funny how scientists that you agree with are as pure as the wind-driven snow-but scientists that you disagree with are "Parroting Political Conclusions."

Funny how that works.

[silverscreenselect]

Oh,and BTW-the latest Sweden numbers might not be as bad as you hope they are. And no. I don't feel like spoon-feeding it to you. Spend 30 seconds and do your research on it.

Your "statistics" looked at the death rate in selected European countries over the last two weeks. Here's some other statistics:

Sweden Population 10 Million Cases 118,000 Deaths 6,000
Norway Population 5.4 Million Cases 19.000 Deaths 280
Finland Population 5.5 Million Cases 15,000 Deaths 350
Denmark Population 5.8 Million Cases 43,000 Deaths 715

Denmark's numbers are considerably higher but still significantly less that Sweden. Your expert cherry picked some numbers that makes his conclusion look better.

And the claim that Sweden has no mandates is wrong as well. Their restrictions weren't as significant as in other countries, but they are still more that what people in the U.S. are screaming about. Social distancing of one meter has been required between groups in bars and restaurants since July. Public gatherings are limited to 50 people, and sporting events have been cancelled. And cases are going up now in Sweden just like they are in the rest of Europe because of the colder weather, more time spent indoors and people being more lax about following safety measures.

And while Sweden was sacrificing 6,000 of its citizens to keep the economy going, it still contracted worse in the second quarter than did its Nordic neighbors.

Sweden - 8.6% decline in GDP in second quarter; Denmark - 7.4%' Finland - 3.2%; Norway (March to May, which is how they keep statistics) - 7.1%

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... ors-2020-8

[Buffacuse]

Hate like heck to bring this back to the original topic, but 82% of the 2016 vote total has already voted here.

[Estonut]

That's exactly right. The letters that back up their opinions with evidence and analysis matter. The ones that parrot political conclusions that are contrary to the evidence and aren't based on analysis do not.

Or, to put it in elementary school terms, show your work.

Does this apply to Biden's letter signed by "50 former intelligence officials," too? I read the letter. It DOES NOT say that the laptop scandal is Russian disinformation, as Joe claimed. It actually says that NONE of them has seen the information, but that it could be Russian disinformation. The FBI, who has been in possession of the laptop since December 2019 says there is ZERO evidence on which to base that assertion. I'm sure they've looked for it.

It does. The letter explained exactly the factors that led them to that conclusion.

The factors being that none of them was involved in this investigation and the conclusion that it could be Russian disinformation? What about Joe's big fat lie when he said this same letter stated as fact that it is Russian disinformation?

Show me where the FBI (as opposed to some political appointee) said that there's no evidence on which to base the assertion that it's Russian disinformation.

Don't you think that if there were any hint that this was not genuine, the Trump-hating FBI would have announced such in the last 10 months?

FBI says it has 'nothing to add' to Trump's spy chief's claims about the Hunter Biden laptop controversy

FBI says it has ‘nothing to add’ to Ratcliffe’s remarks about Hunter Biden, Russian disinformation

[Bob78164]

Does this apply to Biden's letter signed by "50 former intelligence officials," too? I read the letter. It DOES NOT say that the laptop scandal is Russian disinformation, as Joe claimed. It actually says that NONE of them has seen the information, but that it could be Russian disinformation. The FBI, who has been in possession of the laptop since December 2019 says there is ZERO evidence on which to base that assertion. I'm sure they've looked for it.

It does. The letter explained exactly the factors that led them to that conclusion.

The factors being that none of them was involved in this investigation and the conclusion that it could be Russian disinformation? What about Joe's big fat lie when he said this same letter stated as fact that it is Russian disinformation?

Show me where the FBI (as opposed to some political appointee) said that there's no evidence on which to base the assertion that it's Russian disinformation.

Don't you think that if there were any hint that this was not genuine, the Trump-hating FBI would have announced such in the last 10 months?

FBI says it has 'nothing to add' to Trump's spy chief's claims about the Hunter Biden laptop controversy

FBI says it has ‘nothing to add’ to Ratcliffe’s remarks about Hunter Biden, Russian disinformation

This FBI? In this Administration? In what universe are you living?

As for the intelligence professionals, including (if memory serves) 3 appointed by Donny, showing their work:

There are a number of factors that make us suspicious of Russian involvement.

Such an operation would be consistent with Russian objectives, as outlined publicly and recently
by the Intelligence Community, to create political chaos in the United States and to deepen
political divisions here but also to undermine the candidacy of former Vice President Biden and
thereby help the candidacy of President Trump. For the Russians at this point, with Trump
down in the polls, there is incentive for Moscow to pull out the stops to do anything possible to
help Trump win and/or to weaken Biden should he win. A “laptop op” fits the bill, as the
publication of the emails are clearly designed to discredit Biden.

Such an operation would be consistent with some of the key methods Russia has used in its now
multi-year operation to interfere in our democracy –- the hacking (via cyber operations) and the
dumping of accurate information or the distribution of inaccurate or misinformation. Russia did
both of these during the 2016 presidential election –- judgments shared by the US Intelligence
Community, the investigation into Russian activities by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, and the
entirety (all Republicans and Democrats) on the current Senate Intelligence Commitee.

Such an operation is also consistent with several data points. The Russians, according to media
reports and cybersecurity experts, targeted Burisma late last year for cyber collection and
gained access to its emails. And Ukrainian politician and businessman Adriy Derkach, identified
and sanctioned by the US Treasury Department for being a 10-year Russian agent interfering in
the 2020 election, passed purported materials on Burisma and Hunter Biden to Giuliani.

Our view that the Russians are involved in the Hunter Biden email issue is consistent with two
other significant data points as well. According to the Washington Post, citing four sources,
“U.S. intelligence agencies warned the White House last year that Giuliani was the target of an
influence operation by Russian intelligence.”

In addition, media reports say that the FBI has now opened an investigation into Russian
involvement in this case. According to USA Today, "federal authorities are investigating
whether the material supplied to the New York Post by Rudy Giuliani . . . is part of a smoke bomb
of disinformation pushed by Russia.”

Hell, you know there's a serious problem with the story when even Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal refused to print it. --Bob

[kroxquo]

But, like I said earlier-Apparently, Covid is the only health issue out there and all you Karens (male and female) would have it no other way than to live in fear of a virus with a 99.9 something survival rate and, Krox's daughter aside, has no long-term effects on the vast majority of those who get it.

Part of the point is that we simply do not know what the long-term effects are. My daughter had no underlying conditions and was in good enough shape that she summited Kilimanjaro two years ago. She now sometimes has trouble going up the stairs and her equilibrium is sometimes off. It is way too early to say that there are "no long-term effects on the vast majority." We are less than a year into its first appearance. The potential long-term effects are staggering.