US Falls to 48th in World Press Freedom Rankings

[Beebs52]

Don't those fears come from being gathered in a public group, which makes for a good target?

This one seems more specific, like we are at risk because of the profession we chose, which was, in some of our cases, to perform a public service.

Teachers or postal workers perform a public service....mentally ill doesn't pick and choose based on...I sorta give up.

Teachers, postal workers, firemen and doctors all perform a public service, and can become targets because they're exposed in their workplace. But cops and journalists are specifically targeted because some SOBs hate their profession.

I see. There's a hierarchy of levels of crazed murder. I stand corrected.

[Bob78164]

Teachers or postal workers perform a public service....mentally ill doesn't pick and choose based on...I sorta give up.

Teachers, postal workers, firemen and doctors all perform a public service, and can become targets because they're exposed in their workplace. But cops and journalists are specifically targeted because some SOBs hate their profession.

I see. There's a hierarchy of levels of crazed murder. I stand corrected.

So doxing someone isn't that bad. After all, there are lots of crazies out there and no one is actually telling those crazies to do something unspeakable to the doxing victim.

Donny has the world's largest megaphone. He's using it irresponsibly (to say the least). One of the things that makes his use of that megaphone irresponsible is that he says things that predictably rile up the crazies and send them against the press. I just wonder how long it will be before he offers to pay their legal fees. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

Grown ups like Jim Acosta? Rachel Maddow? Anderson Cooper? Helen Thomas? The behavior of these "journalists" along with the relentless daily slanted editorializing, false narratives, and sometimes outright lies put out by most of this nation's larger newspapers as "news" deserves to be called names, because "journalist" does not fit.

Or did you ever think that maybe the reason they have so many ugly things to say about Trump is because he and his administration are venal and incompetent. The sheer number of documented lies, the bizarre things that Trump has said or tweeted, and his odd behavior (such as in this entire Iran situation) should have you thinking about whether it's the press or Trump who is to blame.

The press does make mistakes; they make more now than they used to, and the reason is primarily the nature of the news cycle and the constant pressure of social media and 24-hour news outlets to get things out quickly. They can't spend hours or days debating when to go to press the way Ben Bradlee did with Woodward and Bernstein.

And Trump brings a lot of this on himself because of his constant need to be the center of attention. You didn't see Obama or Bush incessantly tweeting and inserting themselves into the narrative the way Trump does (such as his claim he's going to live tweet the Democratic debate). If he insists on being in the middle of every news cycle and making statements that are easily documentable lies, then he's going to get called on it.

If you look at what the major news outlets (press and TV) report, the vast majority of it is proven out. But if you insist on only looking at their mistakes as proof of some scheme against the president and an excuse not to believe anything they say until Trump or Fox News confirms it, then you're doing exactly what he wants with this entire fake news campaign, just the way Hitler did with his lying press campaign.

[Ritterskoop]

My perception of the cartoons were that they were deliberately trying to provoke an entire group by mocking their religious icon.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have done that, and I would never say that they deserved to die for it.

But when you invite a violent reaction, you can't be surprised when it comes.

Would you categorize Piss Christ in the same way?

Sorry I missed this yesterday.

I think art is different from editorial cartoons, but there can be some overlap, yes.

Clearly Serrano wanted to generate reactions to his piece, and he got them. I recall people being very angry at him and him getting death threats, though no one killed him, so it's a tad different from the cartoons and the Maryland newsroom. It was to be expected that he would lose his grants, or not receive future grants. He had to know that would result, and did his thing anyway.

That he had to explain that his work was not meant as blasphemy but as another way of looking at things that came out of Jesus when he died, may mean that his art was not as well-executed as it could have been.

[Ritterskoop]

.. he calls us the enemy of the people.... It's not how we get things done, by calling people names; instead, we should have a reasonable conversation about what aspects of news stories we think are inaccurate. That's what grown-ups would do.

Grown ups like Jim Acosta? Rachel Maddow? Anderson Cooper? Helen Thomas? The behavior of these "journalists" along with the relentless daily slanted editorializing, false narratives, and sometimes outright lies put out by most of this nation's larger newspapers as "news" deserves to be called names, because "journalist" does not fit. Maybe the president shouldn't do it but he's doing a lot of things that need to be done, that he shouldn't have to do. But someone has to.

I will bring back up the narrative pushed by the media during the height of the Black Lives Matter protests, and specifically the reporting around Sandra Bland's case, that I feel directly resulting in the ambush assassination of Harris County Deputy Darren Goforth (an acquaintance of mine).

I am sorry that someone you know was killed.

It illustrates what I have been trying to say, that if someone is angry or frustrated, they should not act in violent ways to express it. I would hope we could all agree on that.

[BackInTex]

Seems that if the U.S. news media where really "scared" and concerned about their safety there would be more reporting on the attack of Andy Ngo (a conservative blogger) by Antifa Thugs in Portland, OR.

A Google search of "Andy Ngo attacked" shows lots of articles by conservative sites but through 7 pages of results, nothing from CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, NYT, etc.

Ngo was attacked for his beliefs (conservative). He is Asian. He is gay. He is conservative.

A search on CNN's site returns nothing. Search for "Antifa" and you get an article about the protest and injuries, but Ngo is not mentioned

Spoiler

[quote](CNN)Three people were arrested and eight people injured, including at least three police officers, during violent demonstrations in Portland on Saturday, according to police.

Multiple assaults were reported, police said, and items were thrown at demonstrators and officers that looked like milkshakes but contained quick-dry concrete.
Portland Fire & Rescue medics treated eight people on the scene, authorities said, including three police officers.
Two officers were pepper sprayed, an officer was punched in the arm by a demonstrator, and an officer sustained a head injury from a projectile, police said. The injuries were not life-threatening.
According to CNN Portland affiliates KOIN and KATU, clashing demonstrators included anti-fascist protesters and members of several right-wing groups, including the far-right group the Proud Boys.
A website for the Rose City Antifa group earlier this month called on supporters to "defend" the city against the Proud Boys.
A group of Antifa protesters marched to Pioneer Courthouse Square, where a smaller group of right-wing demonstrators had gathered, KOIN said.
KOIN reported that the animosity between the groups was mostly verbal. But eventually police called it a civil disturbance and ordered people to leave.
It's unclear which groups the arrested protesters were affiliated with.
"Demonstration events are very fluid in nature and the management of these events is complex," said Assistant Police Chief Chris Davis. "Unfortunately, today some community members and officers were injured. We are actively investigating these incidents to hold those responsible accountable."[/quote]

Can't find a thing on MSNBC's site.

[silverscreenselect]

I can't find anything that indicates that Ngo was attending this event in a journalistic capacity (he's from Portland) or that he in any way indicated he was a journalist. The clip that's been shown starts with him getting attacked and doesn't show the events that led up to this.

The attack is inexcusable, but without anything more to put it into context, it's nothing more than a confrontation between far right and far left groups that got out of hand (the whole controversy arose out of a Proud Boys event). It's a considerable stretch to turn this into the equivalent of organized attacks on the press (such as what Trump's buddy Kim Jong Un's security police did to his new press secretary).

[Beebs52]

I can't find anything that indicates that Ngo was attending this event in a journalistic capacity (he's from Portland) or that he in any way indicated he was a journalist. The clip that's been shown starts with him getting attacked and doesn't show the events that led up to this.

The attack is inexcusable, but without anything more to put it into context, it's nothing more than a confrontation between far right and far left groups that got out of hand (the whole controversy arose out of a Proud Boys event). It's a considerable stretch to turn this into the equivalent of organized attacks on the press (such as what Trump's buddy Kim Jong Un's security police did to his new press secretary).

I found several references to Oregonian and Quillette for which he's an independent reporter. His video equipment stolen etc. Bless. Your. Heart.

[jarnon]

CNN’s Jake Tapper strongly condemned the assault on Ngo, noting that Antifa routinely attacks journalists. Nothing from MSNBC though.

BTW I like having a Press Secretary who fights for journalists.

[silverscreenselect]

I found several references to Oregonian and Quillette for which he's an independent reporter. His video equipment stolen etc. Bless. Your. Heart.

I'm not questioning who he is (although I think his status may have been puffed up since this incident, like if I chose to call myself an independent film reviewer). I'm questioning (1) whether those who assaulted him knew who he was or it was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and (2) whether there was any provocation for the incident since the video footage conveniently starts when he was first attacked and didn't show what may have led up to that.

[Beebs52]

I found several references to Oregonian and Quillette for which he's an independent reporter. His video equipment stolen etc. Bless. Your. Heart.

I'm not questioning who he is (although I think his status may have been puffed up since this incident, like if I chose to call myself an independent film reviewer). I'm questioning (1) whether those who assaulted him knew who he was or it was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and (2) whether there was any provocation for the incident since the video footage conveniently starts when he was first attacked and didn't show what may have led up to that.

Of course. Of course.

[silvercamaro]

I found several references to Oregonian and Quillette for which he's an independent reporter. His video equipment stolen etc. Bless. Your. Heart.

I'm not questioning who he is (although I think his status may have been puffed up since this incident, like if I chose to call myself an independent film reviewer). I'm questioning (1) whether those who assaulted him knew who he was or it was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and (2) whether there was any provocation for the incident since the video footage conveniently starts when he was first attacked and didn't show what may have led up to that.

I'm sure that whatever "led up to that" was recorded -- on Ngo's camera, the one that was conveniently stolen.

It's also possible that he smiled and, in the process, juxtaposed his lips into something that resembled to somebody somewhere as a smirk. If that ever was a good enough reason to try to ruin the life of a Catholic high school student, it's most certainly a good enough reason to attack a professional journalist with physical violence.

(If you don't remember, that's what sarcafont looks like.)

[Estonut]

without anything more to put it into context, it's nothing more than a confrontation between far right and far left groups that got out of hand

Got out of hand? This was a planned assault. They we're supposed to be armed with the trendy milkshake weapons, but that wasn't enough for some of these assholes. They, instead, filled their cups with quick-drying cement. They were "out of hand" before it all started.

[silverscreenselect]

without anything more to put it into context, it's nothing more than a confrontation between far right and far left groups that got out of hand

Got out of hand? This was a planned assault. They we're supposed to be armed with the trendy milkshake weapons, but that wasn't enough for some of these assholes. They, instead, filled their cups with quick-drying cement. They were "out of hand" before it all started.

I'm not defending the behavior of those who committed the assault. But there's no showing that this was a calculated attack on the press instead of a case of someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I'm always suspicious of videos that conveniently start at the most incriminating moment.

[Bob78164]

without anything more to put it into context, it's nothing more than a confrontation between far right and far left groups that got out of hand

Got out of hand? This was a planned assault. They we're supposed to be armed with the trendy milkshake weapons, but that wasn't enough for some of these assholes. They, instead, filled their cups with quick-drying cement. They were "out of hand" before it all started.

I'm not defending the behavior of those who committed the assault. But there's no showing that this was a calculated attack on the press instead of a case of someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I'm always suspicious of videos that conveniently start at the most incriminating moment.

My understanding is that the video was shot by someone working for The Oregonian, which I think has been Portland's daily newspaper for a long time. I don't think the video was edited. I think the guy just missed the beginning of the physical conflict. --Bob

[Estonut]

without anything more to put it into context, it's nothing more than a confrontation between far right and far left groups that got out of hand

Got out of hand? This was a planned assault. They we're supposed to be armed with the trendy milkshake weapons, but that wasn't enough for some of these assholes. They, instead, filled their cups with quick-drying cement. They were "out of hand" before it all started.

I'm not defending the behavior of those who committed the assault. But there's no showing that this was a calculated attack on the press instead of a case of someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I'm always suspicious of videos that conveniently start at the most incriminating moment.

Conveniently? Really? They stole his video equipment. That's "convenient" for them, not him!

[silverscreenselect]

They we're supposed to be armed with the trendy milkshake weapons, but that wasn't enough for some of these assholes.

There also appears to be considerable doubt as to whether there actually was concrete in the milkshakes. The source for that claim is a single tweet from an unidentified police officer that has not been verified anywhere (although it's been widely reported on the right).

https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtow ... dry-cement

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 82726.html

https://www.truthorfiction.com/did-anti ... ilkshakes/

[silverscreenselect]

Really? They stole his video equipment.

Just what video equipment got stolen and when? Again, it appears that there's only Ngo's claim to that effect. The video I've seen begins with Ngo getting punched, then milkshakes thrown at him. I'm not doubting that someone hit him, and that was clearly wrong, but that would explain the injuries he has in later pictures. What you don't see in the video is anyone stealing any video equipment or that he had any equipment.

You also don't have any evidence that anyone else was hit with a cement milkshake. You would think that Antifa goons would be tossing those at more than one target if that was their goal.

[BackInTex]

Really? They stole his video equipment.

Just what video equipment got stolen and when? Again, it appears that there's only Ngo's claim to that effect. The video I've seen begins with Ngo getting punched, then milkshakes thrown at him. I'm not doubting that someone hit him, and that was clearly wrong, but that would explain the injuries he has in later pictures. What you don't see in the video is anyone stealing any video equipment or that he had any equipment.

You also don't have any evidence that anyone else was hit with a cement milkshake. You would think that Antifa goons would be tossing those at more than one target if that was their goal.

Their target was the conservative journalist. You can hear them calling his name as they attack him.

[tlynn78]

I saw a blurb from someone this morning, something to the effect of "...journalists should be able to safely report on riots..."

Seems kind of like saying people not wearing red shirts should be able to safely run with the bulls in Pamplona.

[BackInTex]

I saw a blurb from someone this morning, something to the effect of "...journalists should be able to safely report on riots..."

Seems kind of like saying people not wearing red shirts should be able to safely run with the bulls in Pamplona.

or people with red caps should be able to safely dine in a public restaurant.