Who Defines "Whataboutism?"

[Beebs52]

I know that it's illegal to conspire to commit a federal crime, as Michael Cohen just said under oath that Donny did. And since Cohen said it in the context of agreeing that he himself had committed a federal crime and likely faces a few years in a federal prison, I'm inclined to think he's not making it up.

It's also a crime (witness tampering) to try to get people not to flip on you, by publicly praising them for refusing to flip and planting stories that you were discussing pardoning them.

Donny is firing the people who are investigating him and he's doing it because they're investigating him. That's unacceptable in any democracy. --Bob

All speculation right now. Just to annoy you personally.

And it will remain speculation in your eyes until we have a Congress that digs for and discloses the evidence that Donny is hiding, starting with his tax returns. Which means at least one House of Congress that isn't controlled by Republicans. --Bob

Hope these posts aren't billable hours. It's a juggernaut.

[silverscreenselect]

So any previous prez's policies shouldn't be blamed for current difficulties? Now that is funny. Inherited, inherited, inherited...

No, I didn't say that. But Trump sticking his nose up Putin's butt has nothing at all to do with what Obama did or didn't do.

Abe Lincoln could have easily walked around the White House blaming the mess the country was in on James Buchanan. FDR could have just sat back and blamed everything on Hoover. Fortunately, they didn't.

[Beebs52]

So any previous prez's policies shouldn't be blamed for current difficulties? Now that is funny. Inherited, inherited, inherited...

No, I didn't say that. But Trump sticking his nose up Putin's butt has nothing at all to do with what Obama did or didn't do.

Abe Lincoln could have easily walked around the White House blaming the mess the country was in on James Buchanan. FDR could have just sat back and blamed everything on Hoover. Fortunately, they didn't.

Um Obama did indeed do that

[Bob Juch]

I assume you're referring to me, sweetiepie.

Whether I'm a hypocrite is a completely separate issue from whether I'm right now about Donny. And if you're defending Donny or giving him a pass for actions that caused you to excoriate earlier politicians, you're at least as hypocritical as you claim I'm being. --Bob

I've never given President Trump a pass on anything I was critical of to others. I've stated my dislike of his actions many times. What I have done (and maybe you can't understand the difference) is criticized you for your over the top criticism of Trump for things your favs have done. You either respond with "whataboutism" (even though I'm not saying what Trump did was O.K.) or "she's not running" or "he's not running". You are critical of President Trump and have a "fair weather" morality about you that is telling of your character.

Dislike of his actions is meaningless unless it comes with electoral consequences. As long as Republicans risk getting primaried for criticizing Donny, they won't do it. That's where Republican voters come in.

And there really isn't anything over the top about my criticisms of Donny. It's his actions that have been utterly unprecedented, and call for an unprecedented response. Republicans will certainly lose the popular vote for the House. I think they'll lose it by a big enough majority that Democrats will control the House, and then we'll find out what Donny has been hiding, facilitated by those who are actively assisting him and those who are merely too craven to stand up for the country. --Bob

Well here's one good Republican:

[silverscreenselect]

Um Obama did indeed do that

I am not a fan of Obama's, but the recession began turning around within his first few months of office. His first priority was a stimulus (not the right one one in my view, but better than what Bush had been doing).

[flockofseagulls104]

The big hole in all your arguments is the notion that trump is 'in Putin's pocket' is 'Comrade Donny' or however you want to phrase it. That is all stupid propaganda. This all comes back to one incident which has been totally misconstrued and has lead to the biggest waste of time and money we have seen in our lifetimes.

On the campaign, trump said he admired Putin because he was a strong leader and he put his country's interests first. Not that he thought Putin was right, or that Russia's interests were our interests. The dems and the media took it from there, and we here we are.

All the hype about trump-Putin aside, if you just look at the facts, it is pretty obvious that trump has not been giving russia any kind of break, other than trump constantly putting his foot in his mouth. I think the dems are helping Putin a lot more than trump, by carrying out his goal of seeding dissent and dividing our county.

https://www.gop.com/trump-admins-tough- ... ussia-rsr/

[jarnon]

On the campaign, trump said he admired Putin because he was a strong leader and he put his country's interests first. Not that he thought Putin was right, or that Russia's interests were our interests. The dems and the media took it from there, and we here we are.

Trump often lavishes undeserved praise on foreign leaders, including ones who don't like each other or the U.S. This seems to be a tactic of his. He hopes that at least some of them enjoy adulation as much as he does, and are influenced by it.

[silverscreenselect]

if you just look at the facts, it is pretty obvious that trump has not been giving russia any kind of break, other than trump constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

Flock, perhaps you slept through the Helsinki summit or just want to chalk it up to another case of Trump putting his foot in his mouth.

[Bob78164]

All the hype about trump-Putin aside, if you just look at the facts, it is pretty obvious that trump has not been giving russia any kind of break, other than trump constantly putting his foot in his mouth.[/url]

Wrong. The Administration still is resisting enforcing the sanctions against Russia that were passed by a nearly unanimous Congress. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

On the campaign, trump said he admired Putin because he was a strong leader and he put his country's interests first. Not that he thought Putin was right, or that Russia's interests were our interests. The dems and the media took it from there, and we here we are.

Trump often lavishes undeserved praise on foreign leaders, including ones who don't like each other or the U.S. This seems to be a tactic of his. He hopes that at least some of them enjoy adulation as much as he does, and are influenced by it.

trump is not a diplomat or a politician. He was pretty harsh on little rocket man until it was possible to meet with him and negotiate with him. (Possibly the harshness made it possible). Then he praised Kim. So when you are meeting with someone and negotiating things, you want to publicly insult them? You think that is a good strategy? Praising someone may add some grease into the negotiations. Perhaps that is what he is doing. Regardless, saying good things about another leader rather than bad things doesn't change a thing. It's the results and the policies that matter, and if you look at trump's actions towards russia, it does not indicate that he's 'buddy-buddy' with Putin in any way.

[Bob78164]

On the campaign, trump said he admired Putin because he was a strong leader and he put his country's interests first. Not that he thought Putin was right, or that Russia's interests were our interests. The dems and the media took it from there, and we here we are.

Trump often lavishes undeserved praise on foreign leaders, including ones who don't like each other or the U.S. This seems to be a tactic of his. He hopes that at least some of them enjoy adulation as much as he does, and are influenced by it.

trump is not a diplomat or a politician. He was pretty harsh on little rocket man until it was possible to meet with him and negotiate with him. (Possibly the harshness made it possible). Then he praised Kim. So when you are meeting with someone and negotiating things, you want to publicly insult them? You think that is a good strategy? Praising someone may add some grease into the negotiations. Perhaps that is what he is doing. Regardless, saying good things about another leader rather than bad things doesn't change a thing. It's the results and the policies that matter, and if you look at trump's actions towards russia, it does not indicate that he's 'buddy-buddy' with Putin in any way.

You think it's just a coincidence that by weaking NATO Donny has moved a very significant step toward accomplishing one of Russia's nearest and dearest foreign policy goals? And let's not forget that time when he disclosed highly classified information (including information that put a source in danger) directly to the Russian government. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

So we want to talk about whataboutism?

The whole racism tool is the epitome of whataboutism. We haven't had slavery in this country for many generations. Same with Jim Crow. Why, then, an I told I must feel guilt for these things? I never participated in any of these things, and I abhor that they ever happened. Yet I am told by the left things like t I exude 'microaggressions'. Accuse the actual people who engage in racist behavior of racism, not a whole group of people.

Another example of whataboutism going insane is what's happening now in South Africa. Here is an introduction to the situation by Tucker Carlson. I know the people who slam Fox News will be appalled and refuse to watch it. I know for a fact there are people who hate Fox News purely for the reason they've been told to hate Fox News, but who've NEVER even bothered to watch a minute of it themselves. The trump haters on this bored will refuse to watch it, but respond with a post to disparage me. They prefer to remain in the safety and security of their echo chamber.

[Bob78164]

Another example of whataboutism going insane is what's happening now in South Africa. Here is an introduction to the situation by Tucker Carlson. I know the people who slam Fox News will be appalled and refuse to watch it.

I don't refuse to watch Faux News because they're biased. I refuse to watch Faux News because they get their facts wrong and they don't care. The Carlson claims about murders in South Africa have been extensively reported on and debunked. Which didn't stop Donny from citing them as fact, but that's just because he's stupid. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

The Carlson claims about murders in South Africa have been extensively reported on and debunked. Which didn't stop Donny from citing them as fact, but that's just because he's stupid. --Bob

This South African "scandal" follows the usual right wing route David Duke to Tucker Carlson to Donald Trump to Flock and Spock.

[Bob78164]

The Carlson claims about murders in South Africa have been extensively reported on and debunked. Which didn't stop Donny from citing them as fact, but that's just because he's stupid. --Bob

This South African "scandal" follows the usual right wing route David Duke to Tucker Carlson to Donald Trump to Flock and Spock.

Let's be careful here. Spock has expressed an interest in the subject matter but I haven't seen him adopt the fake news that Carlson is pushing. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

The Carlson claims about murders in South Africa have been extensively reported on and debunked. Which didn't stop Donny from citing them as fact, but that's just because he's stupid. --Bob

This South African "scandal" follows the usual right wing route David Duke to Tucker Carlson to Donald Trump to Flock and Spock.

Who the fuck is David Duke and why do liberals like him so much?

[Bob78164]

The Carlson claims about murders in South Africa have been extensively reported on and debunked. Which didn't stop Donny from citing them as fact, but that's just because he's stupid. --Bob

This South African "scandal" follows the usual right wing route David Duke to Tucker Carlson to Donald Trump to Flock and Spock.

Who the fuck is David Duke and why do liberals like him so much?

He's the reason bumper stickers sprouted up all over Louisiana in the early 1990s saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

This South African "scandal" follows the usual right wing route David Duke to Tucker Carlson to Donald Trump to Flock and Spock.

Who the fuck is David Duke and why do liberals like him so much?

He's the reason bumper stickers sprouted up all over Louisiana in the early 1990s saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

Wow, that is a pivotal event in American History, right up there with the moon landing

[flockofseagulls104]

This South African "scandal" follows the usual right wing route David Duke to Tucker Carlson to Donald Trump to Flock and Spock.

Who the fuck is David Duke and why do liberals like him so much?

He's the reason bumper stickers sprouted up all over Louisiana in the early 1990s saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

Oh, I get it! He was for Hillary even back then. That's why liberals love him.

[Bob78164]

Who the fuck is David Duke and why do liberals like him so much?

He's the reason bumper stickers sprouted up all over Louisiana in the early 1990s saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

Oh, I get it! He was for Hillary even back then. That's why liberals love him.

You really don't know?

He ran for Governor of Louisiana as an active member of the KKK. He led the field after the "jungle primary," with Edwin Edwards in second. Edwards was pretty well known to be a crook. In a runoff that featured record African American turnout, Duke won the white vote but lost the election thanks to the African-American vote. Many black people in Louisiana had cars sporting bumper stickers saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

He's the reason bumper stickers sprouted up all over Louisiana in the early 1990s saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

Oh, I get it! He was for Hillary even back then. That's why liberals love him.

You really don't know?

He ran for Governor of Louisiana as an active member of the KKK. He led the field after the "jungle primary," with Edwin Edwards in second. Edwards was pretty well known to be a crook. In a runoff that featured record African American turnout, Duke won the white vote but lost the election thanks to the African-American vote. Many black people in Louisiana had cars sporting bumper stickers saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

I don't pay much attention to the KKK. Or David Duke. Not anywhere near as much as liberals do.

[Bob78164]

Oh, I get it! He was for Hillary even back then. That's why liberals love him.

You really don't know?

He ran for Governor of Louisiana as an active member of the KKK. He led the field after the "jungle primary," with Edwin Edwards in second. Edwards was pretty well known to be a crook. In a runoff that featured record African American turnout, Duke won the white vote but lost the election thanks to the African-American vote. Many black people in Louisiana had cars sporting bumper stickers saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

I don't pay much attention to the KKK. Or David Duke. Not anywhere near as much as liberals do.

And that (writ large) is why the Republican Party finds itself in its present straits. --Bob

[BackInTex]

You really don't know?

He ran for Governor of Louisiana as an active member of the KKK. He led the field after the "jungle primary," with Edwin Edwards in second. Edwards was pretty well known to be a crook. In a runoff that featured record African American turnout, Duke won the white vote but lost the election thanks to the African-American vote. Many black people in Louisiana had cars sporting bumper stickers saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

I don't pay much attention to the KKK. Or David Duke. Not anywhere near as much as liberals do.

And that (writ large) is why the Republican Party finds itself in its present straits. --Bob

Holding the Presidency and both houses. Yep

[flockofseagulls104]

You really don't know?

He ran for Governor of Louisiana as an active member of the KKK. He led the field after the "jungle primary," with Edwin Edwards in second. Edwards was pretty well known to be a crook. In a runoff that featured record African American turnout, Duke won the white vote but lost the election thanks to the African-American vote. Many black people in Louisiana had cars sporting bumper stickers saying, "Vote for the crook. It's important." --Bob

I don't pay much attention to the KKK. Or David Duke. Not anywhere near as much as liberals do.

And that (writ large) is why the Republican Party finds itself in its present straits. --Bob

And that's why racism will not fade out and go away any time soon in this country. It's too useful a tool for the democrat party. And the majority of REAL racists are democrats.

[silverscreenselect]

I don't pay much attention to the KKK. Or David Duke. Not anywhere near as much as liberals do.

Well, you have in this thread, because David Duke was one of the first people spouting that South African nonsense.

https://davidduke.com/new-video-white-g ... th-africa/

Then Tucker Carlson picks up on it, polishes it up a bit and gives it a bit more legitimacy by putting on Fox. Then Trump swallows it up and then it filters down to the other useful idiots like ...

You may not pay attention to David Duke, but you sure jumped on his bandwagon once your buddies at Fox and in the White House did.

You should see the movie BlacKkKlansman (but I'm sure you won't). The actor (Topher Grace) playing a young Duke does a very good job. When he became Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, he was smart enough to realize that their usual rhetoric, which was filled with N-words and other slurs about blacks and Jews, wouldn't be effective with a wider audience. So, in public, he cleaned up his language and found some pseudo-justifications for his positions so that people could start agreeing with them and still justify to themselves that they weren't like the "old time" Klan members. Duke never changed his positions one bit; he merely cleaned up his rhetoric.