My Oscar Thoughts

[jarnon]

The only thing I wonder is why the chick gets the British accent, which the black dude speaks with an American one? (Both are British, BTW.)

I thought about that too. (I'm glad I'm not the only movie watcher who's so picky.) It stands to reason that, in a big galaxy, people have different accents. We know that both Rae and Finn were separated from their birth parents. We don't know much about Rae's origin, but Finn was raised to be a stormtrooper by the First Order, who insist on uniformity. So I assume they wouldn't allow unusual accents.

[CarShark]

I guess the producers of the new Star Wars movie didn't get your memo about casting before they cast a woman, a black, and a Hispanic as the three new heroic characters in the film.

Star Wars may well be an outlier, and don't forget that people have known for a while that the original cast (three White people) were going to figure in somewhat prominently. That's a nice hedge when you have unknowns, regardless of ethnicity.

[silverscreenselect]

I guess the producers of the new Star Wars movie didn't get your memo about casting before they cast a woman, a black, and a Hispanic as the three new heroic characters in the film.

Star Wars may well be an outlier, and don't forget that people have known for a while that the original cast (three White people) were going to figure in somewhat prominently. That's a nice hedge when you have unknowns, regardless of ethnicity.

I guess this was an outlier too:



And this:



And this:



And this:

[CarShark]

I guess this was an outlier too:

So in other words, you found a small handful of examples of minority actors who can be draws, and that's evidence that they...aren't rare? And Idris Elba isn't even the main actor in the Star Trek reboot franchise. Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto, two White men, are. That's a pretty weak argument, even for you. Michael B. Jordan has done both Fruitvale Station and Creed, for which he has received much critical acclaim, but does that mean he could headline a big movie? I'm not even saying don't do it. I'm saying don't pretend that there isn't some risk involved.

[silverscreenselect]

I guess this was an outlier too:

So in other words, you found a small handful of examples of minority actors who can be draws, and that's evidence that they...aren't rare? And Idris Elba isn't even the main actor in the Star Trek reboot franchise. Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto, two White men, are. That's a pretty weak argument, even for you. Michael B. Jordan has done both Fruitvale Station and Creed, for which he has received much critical acclaim, but does that mean he could headline a big movie? I'm not even saying don't do it. I'm saying don't pretend that there isn't some risk involved.

A large part of the problem is the fact that far too many of the big budget blockbusters that are being made are sequels or remakes, and that limits the casting somewhat. You do see minority actors featured quite prominently in some of these ensemble films like Furious 7. That's not a matter of Hollywood being unwilling to cast minority actors as much as their not wanting to take chances on any new franchises. Of the Top 20 grossing films of 2015 (that might change slightly if Daddy's Home or The Revenant make the final list), only five were not sequels, remakes, or animated films. These were: The Martian, Ant-Man, Fifty Shades of Gray, Straight Outta Compton, and San Andreas. Two of those five were headlined by black actors.

[CarShark]

A large part of the problem is the fact that far too many of the big budget blockbusters that are being made are sequels or remakes, and that limits the casting somewhat. You do see minority actors featured quite prominently in some of these ensemble films like Furious 7. That's not a matter of Hollywood being unwilling to cast minority actors as much as their not wanting to take chances on any new franchises. Of the Top 20 grossing films of 2015 (that might change slightly if Daddy's Home or The Revenant make the final list), only five were not sequels, remakes, or animated films. These were: The Martian, Ant-Man, Fifty Shades of Gray, Straight Outta Compton, and San Andreas. Two of those five were headlined by black actors.

...but that hasn't been part of the conversation the past month. It's all been about how racist The Academy is, and how racist Hollywood is, and how racist America is. Now it seems like whenever a Black-led movie doesn't do well, the first excuse is that White people don't want to see it succeed. Give me a break.

[SportsFan68]

A large part of the problem is the fact that far too many of the big budget blockbusters that are being made are sequels or remakes,

I couldn't agree more. I think this is a big problem.

Someone mentioned risk earlier, and I think that making those sequels and remakes is a way to lower that risk. Even if a company makes a big flop, they've still got Fast and Furious XX to cushion the fall.

[silverscreenselect]

Now it seems like whenever a Black-led movie doesn't do well, the first excuse is that White people don't want to see it succeed. Give me a break.

Please name me one recent film that flopped for which someone used that excuse.

[CarShark]

Please name me one recent film that flopped for which someone used that excuse.

The one that made me think of that was that in the Sony e-mails, one of the executives blamed the disappointing performance of Denzel Washington's film The Equalizer on international audiences being racist. After Earth had some of that, too. Also, there were people saying that the new Fantastic Four movie, featuring Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm (Now with 100% more Blackness!), did especially poorly because of "nerd racism." Then there was Red Tails. I can't count how many articles said either that Red Tails failing would doom 'Black movies' or made fun of the ones that did. It keeps coming up because it's such a ready-made excuse.

[silverscreenselect]

Please name me one recent film that flopped for which someone used that excuse.

The one that made me think of that was that in the Sony e-mails, one of the executives blamed the disappointing performance of Denzel Washington's film The Equalizer on international audiences being racist. After Earth had some of that, too. Also, there were people saying that the new Fantastic Four movie, featuring Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm (Now with 100% more Blackness!), did especially poorly because of "nerd racism." Then there was Red Tails. I can't count how many articles said either that Red Tails failing would doom 'Black movies' or made fun of the ones that did. It keeps coming up because it's such a ready-made excuse.

Well, The Equalizer made over $100 million in the US so I wouldn't call it a flop. And Denzel Washington's supposed box office poison didn't stop him from landing the lead in the remake of The Magnificent Seven. And, I checked, and San Andreas, starring the Rock, did over $300 million overseas, double its US box office. So, I guess foreign moviegoers are only selectively racist: they love the Rock but don't like Denzel. And by the way, here's a comparison between The Equalizer and a similar film John Wick starring Keanu Reeves, which opened a month later:

Equalizer: US $101 million; foreign $91 million, total $192 million
Wick: US $43 million, foreign $88 million, total $131 million

So I guess foreign audiences can't stand Keanu Reeves either, but not as much as US audiences can't stand him.

After Earth was a terrible film. Period. It would have flopped regardless of who was in the movie. Will Smith got a good bit of the blame (partly for packaging himself and his son as a pair), but the lead actor in a flop always gets a lot of the blame. I don't recall anyone saying After Earth failed because it had two black actors in the lead roles. And it didn't stop Roland Emmerich from trying to throw a lot of money in his direction to star in Independence Day 2. And by the way, WIll Smith's last three action films before After Earth did big international business (Men in Black 3, Hancock, and I Am Legend).

[CarShark]

Well, The Equalizer made over $100 million in the US so I wouldn't call it a flop.

I wouldn't, either. Apparently, Sony was expecting more. I was under the assumption that any film that made more than double its budget had a good chance of making money. I don't like that the only two types of movies that get talked about are blockbusters

So I guess foreign audiences can't stand Keanu Reeves either, but not as much as US audiences can't stand him.

I can't remember the last time Keanu Reeves had a big hit movie since The Matrix trilogy. We're a long ways away from Point Break and Speed. I don't think he's quite the draw people say he is.

I don't recall anyone saying After Earth failed because it had two black actors in the lead roles.

HERE is one. They're saying that the massive negative word of mouth and subsequent box office failure is not due to the actual quality of the film, but critics uncomfortable with positive black portrayals.

And by the way, Will Smith's last three action films before After Earth did big international business (Men in Black 3, Hancock, and I Am Legend).

Great. So he's an outlier domestically and internationally. It still doesn't disprove the larger point that the ethnicity of the lead actor might be affecting the box office. I doubt that Forest Whitaker, Laurence Fishburne or Idris Elba could have carried the latter two.

[Bob78164]

Well, The Equalizer made over $100 million in the US so I wouldn't call it a flop.

I wouldn't, either. Apparently, Sony was expecting more. I was under the assumption that any film that made more than double its budget had a good chance of making money. I don't like that the only two types of movies that get talked about are blockbusters

So I guess foreign audiences can't stand Keanu Reeves either, but not as much as US audiences can't stand him.

I can't remember the last time Keanu Reeves had a big hit movie since The Matrix trilogy. We're a long ways away from Point Break and Speed. I don't think he's quite the draw people say he is.

I don't recall anyone saying After Earth failed because it had two black actors in the lead roles.

HERE is one. They're saying that the massive negative word of mouth and subsequent box office failure is not due to the actual quality of the film, but critics uncomfortable with positive black portrayals.

And by the way, Will Smith's last three action films before After Earth did big international business (Men in Black 3, Hancock, and I Am Legend).

Great. So he's an outlier domestically and internationally. It still doesn't disprove the larger point that the ethnicity of the lead actor might be affecting the box office. I doubt that Forest Whitaker, Laurence Fishburne or Idris Elba could have carried the latter two.

But I'll bet Denzel could have. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

So I guess foreign audiences can't stand Keanu Reeves either, but not as much as US audiences can't stand him.

I can't remember the last time Keanu Reeves had a big hit movie since The Matrix trilogy. We're a long ways away from Point Break and Speed. I don't think he's quite the draw people say he is.

The point wasn't how big a draw Keanu Reeves is but that John Wick and The Equalizer were very similar types of movies, a lone wolf vigilante hero going up against a bunch of nasty Eastern European gangsters. If anything, John Wick had more action in it than The Equalizer did. And, while The Equalizer did considerably better domestically, the two films did about the same amount of overseas business.

[silverscreenselect]

I don't recall anyone saying After Earth failed because it had two black actors in the lead roles.

HERE is one. They're saying that the massive negative word of mouth and subsequent box office failure is not due to the actual quality of the film, but critics uncomfortable with positive black portrayals.

You really had to work to find a left wing political site (which I have a feeling you have very little in common with) that wrote an article on that subject. And the writer's "source" was people who commented on the New York TImes blog. Next, you'll be using me and the Bobs as your sources.

The writer was correct that one of the reasons people were upset was that they felt that Will Smith used his clout to get Jaden the role. And he did. But they would have savaged any actor who did the same thing. Look at what critics did to Francis Ford Coppola for giving his daughter a major role in Godfather III.

[danielh41]

I don't often walk into a movie without knowing at least something about it. But wanting to see all the Best Picture nominees, I did that yesterday with a movie called Room. I hadn't even seen a trailer. I had barely noted the poster for the movie. The first 20 to 30 minutes really baffled me. I didn't know why the characters were locked in that room. But as the movie progressed and information conveyed, I was blown away. I wonder if the movie would have had the same impact on me if I had known about the premise and the subject matter before walking into the theater. When I got home, I watched the trailer, and it seems that it gave the entire movie away. That seems to be a problem with a lot of movies; they have to put so much into the trailers to sell the movie, putting more emphasis on the commercial rather than the artistic.

Anyway, I was very pleasantly surprised by Room, and that doesn't happen very often.