I'm not worried about dead birds, I'm worried about rising sea levels. Of course I should have nice oceanfront property in Arizona soon.Spock wrote:http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/ ... on-capture
Long article by Jonathon Franzen about how the focus on "Climate Change" comes at the expense of conservation. Franzen is obviously not a conservative but his article (very closely) fits/describes my conservation views.
I suspect that many of the "Environmentalists" here have little knowledge of, or interest in, actual on-the-ground conservation.
Pull Quote>>
But climate change is seductive to organizations that want to be taken seriously. Besides being a ready-made meme, it’s usefully imponderable: while peer-reviewed scientific estimates put the annual American death toll of birds from collisions and from outdoor cats at more than three billion, no individual bird death can be definitively attributed to climate change (since local and short-term weather patterns have nonlinear causes). Although you could demonstrably save the lives of the birds now colliding with your windows or being killed by your cats, reducing your carbon footprint even to zero saves nothing.<<<
An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
- Bob Juch
- Posts: 26991
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
- Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
- Contact:
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- BackInTex
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: In Texas of course!
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Just as promised, I'm sure.Bob Juch wrote:I'm not worried about dead birds, I'm worried about rising sea levels. Of course I should have nice oceanfront property in Arizona soon.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- themanintheseersuckersuit
- Posts: 7630
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2015/0 ... al-warmingBob78164 wrote:The West Antarctic Ice Sheet has begun to collapse. The process appears irreversible. The resulting increase in sea level is expected to be approximately 10 feet. --Bob
After measuring geothermal heat under the West Antarctic ice sheet for the first time, researchers found it was “significantly higher” than data from around the region had previously indicated.
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
- Bob78164
- Bored Moderator
- Posts: 21973
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
- Location: By the phone
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
But is the heat higher than it used to be? If not, then the geothermal energy input hasn't changed, whereas we know that the climate has warmed. --Bobthemanintheseersuckersuit wrote:http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2015/0 ... al-warmingBob78164 wrote:The West Antarctic Ice Sheet has begun to collapse. The process appears irreversible. The resulting increase in sea level is expected to be approximately 10 feet. --Bob
After measuring geothermal heat under the West Antarctic ice sheet for the first time, researchers found it was “significantly higher” than data from around the region had previously indicated.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Estonut
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 10495
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:16 am
- Location: Garden Grove, CA
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
After measuring geothermal heat under the West Antarctic ice sheet for the first time, researchers found it was “significantly higher” than data from around the region had previously indicated.Bob78164 wrote:But is the heat higher than it used to be? If not, then the geothermal energy input hasn't changed, whereas we know that the climate has warmed.themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2015/0 ... al-warmingBob78164 wrote:The West Antarctic Ice Sheet has begun to collapse. The process appears irreversible. The resulting increase in sea level is expected to be approximately 10 feet.
After measuring geothermal heat under the West Antarctic ice sheet for the first time, researchers found it was “significantly higher” than data from around the region had previously indicated.
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx
Groucho Marx
- themanintheseersuckersuit
- Posts: 7630
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Pro tip; if a localized phenomenon is observed it is not necessary to invoke a global cause.Bob78164 wrote:But is the heat higher than it used to be? If not, then the geothermal energy input hasn't changed, whereas we know that the climate has warmed. --Bobthemanintheseersuckersuit wrote:http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2015/0 ... al-warmingBob78164 wrote:The West Antarctic Ice Sheet has begun to collapse. The process appears irreversible. The resulting increase in sea level is expected to be approximately 10 feet. --Bob
After measuring geothermal heat under the West Antarctic ice sheet for the first time, researchers found it was “significantly higher” than data from around the region had previously indicated.
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
- Bob78164
- Bored Moderator
- Posts: 21973
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
- Location: By the phone
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
I saw that. I read it as saying geothermal heat was higher than previously believed, not that it was higher than it used to be. --BobEstonut wrote:After measuring geothermal heat under the West Antarctic ice sheet for the first time, researchers found it was “significantly higher” than data from around the region had previously indicated.Bob78164 wrote:But is the heat higher than it used to be? If not, then the geothermal energy input hasn't changed, whereas we know that the climate has warmed.themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2015/0 ... al-warming
After measuring geothermal heat under the West Antarctic ice sheet for the first time, researchers found it was “significantly higher” than data from around the region had previously indicated.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- themanintheseersuckersuit
- Posts: 7630
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
West Antarctica is the only part of Antarctica that is showing any signs of melting which would suggest that the WA melt not evidence of global warming
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
- Bob78164
- Bored Moderator
- Posts: 21973
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
- Location: By the phone
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
No it doesn't. It just suggests that West Antarctica is particularly sensitive to temperature increases. --Bobthemanintheseersuckersuit wrote:West Antarctica is the only part of Antarctica that is showing any signs of melting which would suggest that the WA melt not evidence of global warming
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- mrkelley23
- Posts: 6492
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:48 pm
- Location: Somewhere between Bureaucracy and Despair
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:West Antarctica is the only part of Antarctica that is showing any signs of melting which would suggest that the WA melt not evidence of global warming
You and I must not be reading the same article. Leave it to CSM to bury the sentences that contradict their headline several paragraphs down:
"But Andrew Fisher – Earth and planetary sciences professor and lead author on the paper published Friday in Science Advances – was quick to(sic) urge caution on the study’s implications: the rapid melting of the ice sheet in recent years cannot be fully explained by high core earth temperatures, because the heat was present as the ice sheet was forming, he told UC Santa Cruz in a news release.
Instead, these temperatures may have merely set the stage for global warming to do its work.
“The ice sheet developed and evolved with the geothermal heat flux coming up from below,” Fisher said. “It's part of the system. But this could help explain why the ice sheet is so unstable. When you add the effects of global warming, things can start to change quickly.”
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman
- themanintheseersuckersuit
- Posts: 7630
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Mike would you concede that the air temperature on the WAIS are to low to melt the ice?
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
- mrkelley23
- Posts: 6492
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:48 pm
- Location: Somewhere between Bureaucracy and Despair
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
I wish I knew enough to concede that. I don't. All I knew was that you seemed to be saying something that was diametrically opposed to what the author of the study was saying. I do know that Earth's systems can be pretty delicate. What this article seems to be saying is that the temperature underneath the ice may have been high for some time, but it's the warming atmosphere that has set it into this melting cycle. The air temp by itself may not be enough to do the deed, but in combination with the already warm temperatures underneath, it was enough.themanintheseersuckersuit wrote:Mike would you concede that the air temperature on the WAIS are to low to melt the ice?
That's a pretty uninformed opinion, though.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard Feynman
- Bob Juch
- Posts: 26991
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
- Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
- Contact:
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- BackInTex
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: In Texas of course!
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
You DO realize that the graffiti was Photoshopped onto the picture, right? Probably not. You probably don't care because it helps support your worldview. Lies are the truth if they tell your story.Bob Juch wrote:Photoshoped Image
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- Bob Juch
- Posts: 26991
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
- Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
- Contact:
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
No, it was not Photoshopped. It's Street Art.BackInTex wrote:You DO realize that the graffiti was Photoshopped onto the picture, right? Probably not. You probably don't care because it helps support your worldview. Lies are the truth if they tell your story.Bob Juch wrote:Photoshoped Image
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- BackInTex
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: In Texas of course!
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Sorry, you're wrong. Examine the photo closely. You will see 'noise' around the text on the wall and the reflections. That is clear indication that the resolution of the applied 'patch' was not consistent with the underlying image. When the photo layers were merged and the .jpeg compression routine applied, you get that 'noise'. Those portions of the photo are not part of the original.Bob Juch wrote:No, it was not Photoshopped. It's Street Art.BackInTex wrote:You DO realize that the graffiti was Photoshopped onto the picture, right? Probably not. You probably don't care because it helps support your worldview. Lies are the truth if they tell your story.Bob Juch wrote:Photoshoped Image
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- tlynn78
- Posts: 9318
- Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 am
- Location: Montana
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
And wouldn't "believe" be "mirror imaged"? Or am I missing something?Sorry, you're wrong. Examine the photo closely. You will see 'noise' around the text on the wall and the reflections. That is clear indication that the resolution of the applied 'patch' was not consistent with the underlying image. When the photo layers were merged and the .jpeg compression routine applied, you get that 'noise'. Those portions of the photo are not part of the original.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
- BackInTex
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: In Texas of course!
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Well, sort of, flipped on the vertical. But the "B", "E", and "I" would be the same. There is too much wave distortion to say the "L" or "V" are not correct. The pixel distortion tells the truth.tlynn78 wrote:And wouldn't "believe" be "mirror imaged"? Or am I missing something?Sorry, you're wrong. Examine the photo closely. You will see 'noise' around the text on the wall and the reflections. That is clear indication that the resolution of the applied 'patch' was not consistent with the underlying image. When the photo layers were merged and the .jpeg compression routine applied, you get that 'noise'. Those portions of the photo are not part of the original.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- BackInTex
- Posts: 13438
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: In Texas of course!
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Not sure how the Chicken Little crowd will spin this...
NEW NASA DATA SHOWS POLAR ICE HAS NOT RECEDED SINCE 1979
Maybe they will say NASA doesn't know what they are doing.
Maybe they will treat this as the man behind the curtain. "Ignore the man behind the curtain!"
NEW NASA DATA SHOWS POLAR ICE HAS NOT RECEDED SINCE 1979
Maybe they will say NASA doesn't know what they are doing.
Maybe they will treat this as the man behind the curtain. "Ignore the man behind the curtain!"
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- Bob78164
- Bored Moderator
- Posts: 21973
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
- Location: By the phone
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Or maybe they'll tell the truth: the author doesn't know how to (or is unwilling to honestly) read the data.BackInTex wrote:Not sure how the Chicken Little crowd will spin this...
NEW NASA DATA SHOWS POLAR ICE HAS NOT RECEDED SINCE 1979
Maybe they will say NASA doesn't know what they are doing.
Maybe they will treat this as the man behind the curtain. "Ignore the man behind the curtain!"

The article you linked is a couple of months old. It really didn't take long for someone to explain why it's so wrong. --BobChris Mooney wrote:So in sum: 1) total (or global) polar sea ice is in fact declining, according to both NASA and the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign’s Cryosphere Today; 2) if you analyze the Arctic and Antarctic separately — which makes more sense to do, as very different things are happening to sea ice in the two places — you realize that the Arctic sea ice decline in particular is very stark; 3) there is also bad news about the melting of ice atop land, based on data that are completely outside of this discussion, but that are perhaps the most worrying of all.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Estonut
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 10495
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:16 am
- Location: Garden Grove, CA
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Is this Chris Mooney the English major with no formal education in science? You've been "framed."Bob78164 wrote:Or maybe they'll tell the truth: the author doesn't know how to (or is unwilling to honestly) read the data.BackInTex wrote:Not sure how the Chicken Little crowd will spin this...
NEW NASA DATA SHOWS POLAR ICE HAS NOT RECEDED SINCE 1979
Maybe they will say NASA doesn't know what they are doing.
Maybe they will treat this as the man behind the curtain. "Ignore the man behind the curtain!"
The article you linked is a couple of months old. It really didn't take long for someone to explain why it's so wrong.Chris Mooney wrote:So in sum: 1) total (or global) polar sea ice is in fact declining, according to both NASA and the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign’s Cryosphere Today; 2) if you analyze the Arctic and Antarctic separately — which makes more sense to do, as very different things are happening to sea ice in the two places — you realize that the Arctic sea ice decline in particular is very stark; 3) there is also bad news about the melting of ice atop land, based on data that are completely outside of this discussion, but that are perhaps the most worrying of all.
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx
Groucho Marx
- Bob78164
- Bored Moderator
- Posts: 21973
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
- Location: By the phone
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
You do realize that an ad hominem attack isn't actually a response to what he's saying, don't you? --BobEstonut wrote:Is this Chris Mooney the English major with no formal education in science? You've been "framed."
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- themanintheseersuckersuit
- Posts: 7630
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
- Bob Juch
- Posts: 26991
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
- Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
- Contact:
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
http://www.theinertia.com/surf/code-red ... d-history/Batten down the hatches, stock up on supplies, and make sure your loved ones are safe…but more importantly, prepare for some epic surf. The scientists have spoken and they’ve confirmed it—we could be in for one of the largest El Niño seasons of recorded history. That means abnormally warm water in the winter, torrential downpours and, of course, code red surf. Storms will be forming throughout the summer and into the winter in uncharacteristically warm waters around the equator, sending large purple blobs plummeting towards the coastlines of Central America, Mexico and California.

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- themanintheseersuckersuit
- Posts: 7630
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Re: An Epitaph for Global Warming Hysteria
President Obama will ask Congress Tuesday to speed up the construction of new icebreaker ships in order to protect U.S. interests and resources in the Arctic, amid growing concern that the U.S. has ceded influence to Russia in the strategic waters.
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.