Texas Rising

[silverscreenselect]

I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

[jarnon]

I think you're being tongue-in-cheek, since you know that prisons on both sides of the Civil War, the Bataan death march, and the Hanoi Hilton were much worse than Gitmo or Abu Ghreib.

[flockofseagulls104]

I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

[silverscreenselect]

I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.

[BackInTex]

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

He thinks Hillary is the Best & Brightest, so, there you go.

[silverscreenselect]

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

He thinks Hillary is the Best & Brightest, so, there you go.

Not the Best and Brightest, but compared to the last two presidents and the entire crop of announced Republican candidates this year, a virtual supernova.

[tlynn78]

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

He thinks Hillary is the Best & Brightest, so, there you go.

Kind of says all you need to know, right?

[SportsFan68]

I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.

It's also a better fate than being hauled over 2,200 miles, raped, tortured, and murdered, also known as the Trail of Tears. We finally apologized for that one, sort of. The article below is from a site called Teaching Tolerance. All I'm saying, there's plenty of hatred to go around. Plenty of tolerance too. The Navajos and Utes I'm acquainted with don't seem to hold the horrors in my European-based history against me.

This is difficult and complicated. For example, Flock never makes it any easier, immediately invoking bigotry and hatred whenever his conservative pals take a hit. Still, I remain hopeful. I voted for Senator Kerry when I got the chance, and I will vote for Secretary Clinton when the time comes.

An American Apology, Long Overdue
share
Submitted by Sean McCollum on January 6, 2010

Blogs and Articles: Race and Ethnicity

You’re forgiven if you missed it.

Late last month, Congress passed and President Obama signed a bill that included text that “apologizes … to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States.” Not only was news of the measure knocked from front pages by the health care debate and Tiger Woods, it was well-camouflaged within the 2010 defense appropriations bill.

Still, it is the first official apology offered by the United States for the long-running persecution of the first Americans. It follows in the tradition of federal apologies to Japanese-Americans for their internment during World War II, and to Native Hawaiians for U.S. involvement in the 1893 overthrow of their monarchy.

Included in the non-binding, bipartisan resolution was an expression of regret for a policy that even fewer non-Native Americans are aware of: “the forcible removal of Native children from their families to faraway boarding schools where their Native practices and languages were degraded and forbidden.”

Beginning in the 1870s, the federally funded system of government and religious schools eventually grew to some 500 institutions. Their official policy was to promote assimilation and effectively extinguish the cultures of Native Americans. Many of these schools relied on a severe and often brutal program of military-style discipline and Christian indoctrination. U.S. officials forced more than 100,000 kids from their families, and many of them suffered years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. If and when they returned home, they did so as strangers bearing Americanized names. Forced enrollment ended in the 1930s, and federal investigations and damning reports about the treatment of students brought greater scrutiny in the 1970s. Most of the schools were closed by the 1990s.

This official apology does not restore stolen lands or lives. Nor does it relieve the nightmares of mistreated boarding school alums. But it finally owns up to this country’s record of ill-conceived, bigoted, and often sadistic treatment of Native Americans. And perhaps, like any honorable apology should, it sets the stage for making amends.

[Evil Squirrel]

It's also a better fate than being hauled over 2,200 miles, raped, tortured, and murdered, also known as the Trail of Tears. We finally apologized for that one, sort of. The article below is from a site called Teaching Tolerance. All I'm saying, there's plenty of hatred to go around. Plenty of tolerance too. The Navajos and Utes I'm acquainted with don't seem to hold the horrors in my European-based history against me.

This is difficult and complicated. For example, Flock never makes it any easier, immediately invoking bigotry and hatred whenever his conservative pals take a hit. Still, I remain hopeful. I voted for Senator Kerry when I got the chance, and I will vote for Secretary Clinton when the time comes.

An American Apology, Long Overdue
share
Submitted by Sean McCollum on January 6, 2010

Blogs and Articles: Race and Ethnicity

You’re forgiven if you missed it.

Late last month, Congress passed and President Obama signed a bill that included text that “apologizes … to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States.” Not only was news of the measure knocked from front pages by the health care debate and Tiger Woods, it was well-camouflaged within the 2010 defense appropriations bill.

Still, it is the first official apology offered by the United States for the long-running persecution of the first Americans. It follows in the tradition of federal apologies to Japanese-Americans for their internment during World War II, and to Native Hawaiians for U.S. involvement in the 1893 overthrow of their monarchy.

Included in the non-binding, bipartisan resolution was an expression of regret for a policy that even fewer non-Native Americans are aware of: “the forcible removal of Native children from their families to faraway boarding schools where their Native practices and languages were degraded and forbidden.”

Beginning in the 1870s, the federally funded system of government and religious schools eventually grew to some 500 institutions. Their official policy was to promote assimilation and effectively extinguish the cultures of Native Americans. Many of these schools relied on a severe and often brutal program of military-style discipline and Christian indoctrination. U.S. officials forced more than 100,000 kids from their families, and many of them suffered years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. If and when they returned home, they did so as strangers bearing Americanized names. Forced enrollment ended in the 1930s, and federal investigations and damning reports about the treatment of students brought greater scrutiny in the 1970s. Most of the schools were closed by the 1990s.

This official apology does not restore stolen lands or lives. Nor does it relieve the nightmares of mistreated boarding school alums. But it finally owns up to this country’s record of ill-conceived, bigoted, and often sadistic treatment of Native Americans. And perhaps, like any honorable apology should, it sets the stage for making amends.

When should I expect my apology for all of the hateful, sadistic, bigotrous, speciesist acts you've committed against me and my fellow squirrels? Scurrying the Trail of Mange out of Colorado was no picnic, Sprotsie Baby....

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

[Bob Juch]

I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.

Many survivors at the Alamo weren't shot. They were bayoneted. Some were flayed.

[Bob Juch]

I'm not going to watch. My blood pressure would probably raise too high over the inaccuracies.

[BackInTex]

And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.

It's also a better fate than being hauled over 2,200 miles, raped, tortured, and murdered, also known as the Trail of Tears. We finally apologized for that one, sort of. The article below is from a site called Teaching Tolerance. All I'm saying, there's plenty of hatred to go around. Plenty of tolerance too. The Navajos and Utes I'm acquainted with don't seem to hold the horrors in my European-based history against me.

This is difficult and complicated. For example, Flock never makes it any easier, immediately invoking bigotry and hatred whenever his conservative pals take a hit. Still, I remain hopeful. I voted for Senator Kerry when I got the chance, and I will vote for Secretary Clinton when the time comes.

An American Apology, Long Overdue
share
Submitted by Sean McCollum on January 6, 2010

Blogs and Articles: Race and Ethnicity

You’re forgiven if you missed it.

Late last month, Congress passed and President Obama signed a bill that included text that “apologizes … to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States.” Not only was news of the measure knocked from front pages by the health care debate and Tiger Woods, it was well-camouflaged within the 2010 defense appropriations bill.

Still, it is the first official apology offered by the United States for the long-running persecution of the first Americans. It follows in the tradition of federal apologies to Japanese-Americans for their internment during World War II, and to Native Hawaiians for U.S. involvement in the 1893 overthrow of their monarchy.

Included in the non-binding, bipartisan resolution was an expression of regret for a policy that even fewer non-Native Americans are aware of: “the forcible removal of Native children from their families to faraway boarding schools where their Native practices and languages were degraded and forbidden.”

Beginning in the 1870s, the federally funded system of government and religious schools eventually grew to some 500 institutions. Their official policy was to promote assimilation and effectively extinguish the cultures of Native Americans. Many of these schools relied on a severe and often brutal program of military-style discipline and Christian indoctrination. U.S. officials forced more than 100,000 kids from their families, and many of them suffered years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. If and when they returned home, they did so as strangers bearing Americanized names. Forced enrollment ended in the 1930s, and federal investigations and damning reports about the treatment of students brought greater scrutiny in the 1970s. Most of the schools were closed by the 1990s.

This official apology does not restore stolen lands or lives. Nor does it relieve the nightmares of mistreated boarding school alums. But it finally owns up to this country’s record of ill-conceived, bigoted, and often sadistic treatment of Native Americans. And perhaps, like any honorable apology should, it sets the stage for making amends.

Did I miss all the apologies issued by the native tribes to the hundreds of tribes they massacred prior to when the "white settlers" arrived? You do realize that the entire history of the world has and will always be a continual game of King of the Hill, and that current Kings at some point became Kings using less than polite "excuse me"s while climbing to the top and "pushing" the existing kings off? There were few pacifists here when the "whites" arrived.

[silverscreenselect]

Many survivors at the Alamo weren't shot. They were bayoneted. Some were flayed.

The movie showed about a half dozen Alamo survivors being lined up and shot by a firing squad. In the next episode, they showed the Goliad massacre, when what looked like about 30 men were marched in the desert, herded together and shot after surrendering.

[ne1410s]

Did the episode mention that the "heroes" at the Alamo died trying to ensure that white people could still own black people? Kinda rhetorical...

[Bob Juch]

Many survivors at the Alamo weren't shot. They were bayoneted. Some were flayed.

The movie showed about a half dozen Alamo survivors being lined up and shot by a firing squad. In the next episode, they showed the Goliad massacre, when what looked like about 30 men were marched in the desert, herded together and shot after surrendering.

That's what I meant about historical inaccuracies.

They probably didn't show those executed at the Alamo being burned. The women and a slave who were set free probably weren't shown either.

There were about 350 shot at Goliad about a week after the battle. There were prisoners from other battles included too.

[silverscreenselect]

That's what I meant about historical inaccuracies.

They probably didn't show those executed at the Alamo being burned. The women and a slave who were set free probably weren't shown either.

There were about 350 shot at Goliad about a week after the battle. There were prisoners from other battles included too.

They did show women being set free. Santa Anna's reasoning was that if the Texans knew what happened they would be cowed into giving up the fight. One of the women was black; her brother was one of the men executed by the firing squad. She is supposed to be Creole and she figures prominently in the plot later when she winds up becoming Santa Anna's mistress (she wants to kill him).

You can't fault a movie because they don't have the budget to hire a full complement of extras just for the purpose of being "shot." The biggest problem I have is that although the firearms appear to be authentic for 1836 (no multiple shot revolvers), the Texans are able to shoot accurately, galloping on horseback from distances of 30 yards or more. I doubt gunfire would have been anywhere near that accurate in reality.

[Jeemie]

I'm not going to watch. My blood pressure would probably raise too high over the inaccuracies.

And you would know- after all, you were there.

[Beebs52]

I'm not going to watch. My blood pressure would probably raise too high over the inaccuracies.

And you would know- after all, you were there.

Rec

[BackInTex]

They did show women being set free. Santa Anna's reasoning was that if the Texans knew what happened they would be cowed into giving up the fight. One of the women was black; her brother was one of the men executed by the firing squad. She is supposed to be Creole and she figures prominently in the plot later when she winds up becoming Santa Anna's mistress (she wants to kill him).

Emily Morgan... The Yellow Rose of Texas.

[Spock]

An American Apology, Long Overdue
share
Submitted by Sean McCollum on January 6, 2010

Blogs and Articles: Race and Ethnicity

You’re forgiven if you missed it.

Late last month, Congress passed and President Obama signed a bill that included text that “apologizes … to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States.” Not only was news of the measure knocked from front pages by the health care debate and Tiger Woods, it was well-camouflaged within the 2010 defense appropriations bill.

Still, it is the first official apology offered by the United States for the long-running persecution of the first Americans. It follows in the tradition of federal apologies to Japanese-Americans for their internment during World War II, and to Native Hawaiians for U.S. involvement in the 1893 overthrow of their monarchy.

Included in the non-binding, bipartisan resolution was an expression of regret for a policy that even fewer non-Native Americans are aware of: “the forcible removal of Native children from their families to faraway boarding schools where their Native practices and languages were degraded and forbidden.”

Beginning in the 1870s, the federally funded system of government and religious schools eventually grew to some 500 institutions. Their official policy was to promote assimilation and effectively extinguish the cultures of Native Americans. Many of these schools relied on a severe and often brutal program of military-style discipline and Christian indoctrination. U.S. officials forced more than 100,000 kids from their families, and many of them suffered years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. If and when they returned home, they did so as strangers bearing Americanized names. Forced enrollment ended in the 1930s, and federal investigations and damning reports about the treatment of students brought greater scrutiny in the 1970s. Most of the schools were closed by the 1990s.

This official apology does not restore stolen lands or lives. Nor does it relieve the nightmares of mistreated boarding school alums. But it finally owns up to this country’s record of ill-conceived, bigoted, and often sadistic treatment of Native Americans. And perhaps, like any honorable apology should, it sets the stage for making amends.

Did I miss all the apologies issued by the native tribes to the hundreds of tribes they massacred prior to when the "white settlers" arrived? You do realize that the entire history of the world has and will always be a continual game of King of the Hill, and that current Kings at some point became Kings using less than polite "excuse me"s while climbing to the top and "pushing" the existing kings off? There were few pacifists here when the "whites" arrived.

One of the things that always bothers me in this vein is when the Lakota talk about how sacred the Black Hills are to them. Gawd, they only really controlled them for a couple of generations(if that) and they kicked out the Cheyenne(IIRC) who had previously kicked out the Kiowa(or whatever the tribal order was). When you read history of the Sioux, it is somewhat disconcerting to realize how late they crossed the Missouri River and thus how late they got to the Black Hills.

The Sioux moved west because they were kicked out of northern Minnesota by the Ojibway who were moving in from the east. Now this game of "musical sacred lands" was probably driven by white pressure further east, but that is a talk for another post.

The Comanche were unbelievably cruel as they built their empire on the southern plains.

Having said that, if I could pick a previous life to have lived-I would choose to be a middle-aged Sioux or Cheyenne warrior who was killed at the Little Bighorn. Every time I read history, I hope the Indians win this time.

[silverscreenselect]

They did show women being set free. Santa Anna's reasoning was that if the Texans knew what happened they would be cowed into giving up the fight. One of the women was black; her brother was one of the men executed by the firing squad. She is supposed to be Creole and she figures prominently in the plot later when she winds up becoming Santa Anna's mistress (she wants to kill him).

Emily Morgan... The Yellow Rose of Texas.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I learned something today from BiT.

[Bob Juch]

They did show women being set free. Santa Anna's reasoning was that if the Texans knew what happened they would be cowed into giving up the fight. One of the women was black; her brother was one of the men executed by the firing squad. She is supposed to be Creole and she figures prominently in the plot later when she winds up becoming Santa Anna's mistress (she wants to kill him).

Emily Morgan... The Yellow Rose of Texas.

I laughed at the term "Texas loyalists". They are more properly called revolutionaries.

[SportsFan68]

When should I expect my apology for all of the hateful, sadistic, bigotrous, speciesist acts you've committed against me and my fellow squirrels? Scurrying the Trail of Mange out of Colorado was no picnic, Sprotsie Baby

It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever apologize to some mangy rodent whom I have never come near, much less had anything to do with putting on some mythical Trail of Mange.

You were doing so well, too, not darkening our door and all . . .

[flockofseagulls104]

I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.

I am just sick and tired of hearing the same old crap. You watched a movie that dramatized a war almost two hundred years ago and what,out of all the things in the world, do you comment about? It's been drummed into your head to repeat epithets about those people.
GWB was a mediocre President who did some good things and not so good things and ended up pleasing very few people That's all. Rumsfeld as Cheney did their jobs as well as they could under the circumstances. That all. They do not deserve the constant crap they get from people like you. You blame them for the war in Iraq? Your idol Hillary was on the same page. Why didn't you think of her when you watched this movie?
I felt the same way when a few loudmouthed ignorant protesters at my Alma mater disrespected Condi Rice.