Some interesting statistics

[BackInTex]

117,538,000 homes in the US
32 % of US households have guns
365 day in a year

That's 13,728,438,400 house with guns days per year.

680 Americans accidentally killed per year by guns

Likelihood of dying by accidental gunshot on any given day IN a house with guns: 0.000005 %

Likelihood of NOT dying by accidental gunshot on any given day IN a house with guns: 99.999995%

Well, the odds are not quite that. Some of the 680 probably lived in houses without guns but were temporarily in a house with guns, or killed in their own home by a visiting gun, or were outside somewhere. But I don't think 100% accuracy will change the message.

Oh, here is another one.

The odds of becoming a lightning victim in the U.S. in any one year is 1 in 700,000 meaning your are 12.7 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a gun than by lightning IF you live in a home with a gun. O.K. A little more likely to die by the bullet than the bolt. But still...seems pretty safe.

[BackInTex]

In 2009 2,500 people in the US choked to death.

Assuming an even distribution of chokers, 800 of those lived in homes with guns.

Eating or putting things in your mouth is more dangerous than owning a gun.

[Bob Juch]

In 2009 2,500 people in the US choked to death.

Assuming an even distribution of chokers, 800 of those lived in homes with guns.

Eating or putting things in your mouth is more dangerous than owning a gun.

No, you're comparing that with only accidental gun deaths.

[BackInTex]

In 2009 2,500 people in the US choked to death.

Assuming an even distribution of chokers, 800 of those lived in homes with guns.

Eating or putting things in your mouth is more dangerous than owning a gun.

No, you're comparing that with only accidental gun deaths.

I only used accidental chokings.

[Bob Juch]

In 2009 2,500 people in the US choked to death.

Assuming an even distribution of chokers, 800 of those lived in homes with guns.

Eating or putting things in your mouth is more dangerous than owning a gun.

No, you're comparing that with only accidental gun deaths.

I only used accidental chokings.

Right. Doctors kill more people every year than guns.

[jaybee]

In 2009 2,500 people in the US choked to death.

Assuming an even distribution of chokers, 800 of those lived in homes with guns.

Eating or putting things in your mouth is more dangerous than owning a gun.

Most of those who choked by putting a gun in their mouth died.

[Bob Juch]

In 2009 2,500 people in the US choked to death.

Assuming an even distribution of chokers, 800 of those lived in homes with guns.

Eating or putting things in your mouth is more dangerous than owning a gun.

Most of those who choked by putting a gun in their mouth died.

How about those who had a romantic partner put a gun in their mouth?

[BackInTex]

In 2009 2,500 people in the US choked to death.

Assuming an even distribution of chokers, 800 of those lived in homes with guns.

Eating or putting things in your mouth is more dangerous than owning a gun.

Most of those who choked by putting a gun in their mouth died.

How about those who had a romantic partner put a gun in their mouth?

Those were not accidental.

[BackInTex]

Funny that Bob didn't point out my most serious flaw.

Intentional? Maybe a little. Just seeing if anyone would see it and make my numbers even more favorable for gun ownership vs other risks.

There are 2.58 people per household so my .000005% should be more like .000000566%

If my Friday night math is correct.

[BackInTex]

In 2008 12 women died from legal abortions. 12 deaths out of 825,564 abortions. A .001454% mortality rate.

Accidental mortality rate for guns in the home (annualized)? .0002066%

So having guns in the home is 7 times safer than a legal abortion. Wow. I wonder what SSS thinks about THAT!

[BackInTex]

Right. Doctors kill more people every year than guns.

Probably so. Safer to be in a home with a gun than in a hospital (a gun free zone!).

[silverscreenselect]

Right. Doctors kill more people every year than guns.

Probably so. Safer to be in a home with a gun than in a hospital (a gun free zone!).

Of course, you omit a few things. Like the increased rate of suicide in houses with guns. Or the increased rate in homicides in houses with guns (domestic disputes turn a lot deadlier). And the increased rate of nonfatal injuries of all sorts in houses with guns.

My original statement wasn't about accidental death rates. And the statistics back it up.

[BackInTex]

And the statistics back it up.

Post 'em. Show the math. Start with your favorite; legal, safe abortions. Come on. After that, the rest are easy.

[silverscreenselect]

And the statistics back it up.

Post 'em. Show the math. Start with your favorite; legal, safe abortions. Come on. After that, the rest are easy.

A study by the New England Journal of Medicine.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0800859

Money quotes:

This reality is reflected in the fact that the $2 billion annual costs of medical care for the victims of gun violence are dwarfed by an estimated overall economic burden, including both material and intangible costs, of $100 billion... In fact, handgun purchasers substantially increase their risk of a violent death. This increase begins the moment the gun is acquired — suicide is the leading cause of death among handgun owners in the first year after purchase — and lasts for years...

The risks associated with household exposure to guns apply not only to the people who buy them; epidemiologically, there can be said to be “passive” gun owners who are analogous to passive smokers. Living in a home where there are guns increases the risk of homicide by 40 to 170% and the risk of suicide by 90 to 460%. Young people who commit suicide with a gun usually use a weapon kept at home, and among women in shelters for victims of domestic violence, two thirds of those who come from homes with guns have had those guns used against them.

I'd like to see BiT or any of the gun supporters on this Bored cite a single statistic that shows the contrary, that having a gun in the house or the workplace reduces the chance of violence. Instead, they posit hypotheticals about abusive spouses or crazed mental patients or mob hitmen or bloodthirsty zombies coming at them and their own feelings of assurance that they'd be able to handle the situation. Or they post unrelated statistics about how rare accidental gun deaths are in comparison with other things.

And I know for a fact that I was able to handle the situation. I lost $60 and the hassle of cancelling some credit cards but I'm still alive without a gun. Obviously, they were scared, jumpy kids and not deranged hardened killers, but if I had a gun they might have started shooting. When I reached for my wallet, one of them nearly panicked and fired so I can guess what might have happened if he saw an actual gun.

[BackInTex]

Or they post unrelated statistics about how rare accidental gun deaths are in comparison with other things.

Unrelated? Accidental shootings is one of the things you hype about the dangers of guns. Well, until I show how statistically insignificant it is. They you call it an 'unrelated' statistic.

And 'other things'? Legal abortion is an 'other thing'? It your thing, man. Own it.

[silverscreenselect]

Or they post unrelated statistics about how rare accidental gun deaths are in comparison with other things.

Unrelated? Accidental shootings is one of the things you hype about the dangers of guns. Well, until I show how statistically insignificant it is. They you call it an 'unrelated' statistic.

And 'other things'? Legal abortion is an 'other thing'? It your thing, man. Own it.

As I figured, refusing to cite statistics because there are none. Whether there are more or less accidental gunshot deaths than deaths from legal abortions is beside the point. If you believe that, you should be encouraging women to get abortions because it's healthier for them than trying to bear a child. Living in a house with a gun substantially increases the risk of violent death or injury. And there's no reason to take that risk other than to indulge certain macho fantasies.

There's not much chance of me being struck by lightning, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea for me to stand in the middle of an open field during a thunderstorm.

[BackInTex]

As I figured, refusing to cite statistics because there are none.

Are you referring to yourself? Because I provided a lot of statistics, along with the supporting numbers so you can re-do the math. You quote an article with $100 million quoted here and 40-170% here, but nothing to indicate what that biased source uses for its study population and how they decide to put certain numbers above the line and what is included below the line.

Besides, I've never argued the increased risk of injury or death by bullets from having a gun and not having a gun. But that final risk is still minimal and acceptable. It's certainly not 20% like your silly analogy about medicine.

I have increased risk of dying in an auto accident by going to work each day, but I accept that risk as well. The alternative is to rely on others for my needs.

I had a huge increased risk from drowning by snorkeling while I was on St. Thomas. Probably 20-30 times (or more as I don't really have the metrics) than my risk of injury from my guns.

[jaybee]

Not to ruin the party but give me a set of numbers and I'll prove to you that Elvis is still alive.

[Bob Juch]

Right. Doctors kill more people every year than guns.

Probably so. Safer to be in a home with a gun than in a hospital (a gun free zone!).

Of course, you omit a few things. Like the increased rate of suicide in houses with guns. Or the increased rate in homicides in houses with guns (domestic disputes turn a lot deadlier). And the increased rate of nonfatal injuries of all sorts in houses with guns.

My original statement wasn't about accidental death rates. And the statistics back it up.

So you're saying that guns make people suicidal, homicidal, and accident prone?

[jarnon]

Of course, you omit a few things. Like the increased rate of suicide in houses with guns. Or the increased rate in homicides in houses with guns (domestic disputes turn a lot deadlier). And the increased rate of nonfatal injuries of all sorts in houses with guns.

My original statement wasn't about accidental death rates. And the statistics back it up.

So you're saying that guns make people suicidal, homicidal, and accident prone?

I think it's the other way around. People with suicidal or homicidal tendencies are more likely to buy guns than the average person. They're still a small minority of gun owners, but they stand out in the statistics. Better screening for mental problems can find some of them before they act on their inclinations. As for accident-prone gun owners (I'm not thinking of anyone in particular), they just have to be extra careful with their guns.

[silverscreenselect]

Probably so. Safer to be in a home with a gun than in a hospital (a gun free zone!).

Of course, you omit a few things. Like the increased rate of suicide in houses with guns. Or the increased rate in homicides in houses with guns (domestic disputes turn a lot deadlier). And the increased rate of nonfatal injuries of all sorts in houses with guns.

My original statement wasn't about accidental death rates. And the statistics back it up.

So you're saying that guns make people suicidal, homicidal, and accident prone?

People who get angry with a family member may shout, throw punches or hit with some object, none of which are likely to be fatal. People with a gun who get angry may use it.

Lots of gun suicides are sudden impulse decisions made much easier by how ready and easy it is to kill yourself with a gun. Other methods require more planning and also give people a chance to back out if they think better of it (pills, gas, etc.). They are also more prone to making mistakes in calculating the fatal dosages of pills or otherwise have someone rescue them. People who put a gun in their mouths and pull the trigger seldom fail to kill themselves. These suicidal urges often pass quickly ... unless someone makes a permanent decision in the meantime.

[Bob Juch]

Of course, you omit a few things. Like the increased rate of suicide in houses with guns. Or the increased rate in homicides in houses with guns (domestic disputes turn a lot deadlier). And the increased rate of nonfatal injuries of all sorts in houses with guns.

My original statement wasn't about accidental death rates. And the statistics back it up.

So you're saying that guns make people suicidal, homicidal, and accident prone?

People who get angry with a family member may shout, throw punches or hit with some object, none of which are likely to be fatal. People with a gun who get angry may use it.

Lots of gun suicides are sudden impulse decisions made much easier by how ready and easy it is to kill yourself with a gun. Other methods require more planning and also give people a chance to back out if they think better of it (pills, gas, etc.). They are also more prone to making mistakes in calculating the fatal dosages of pills or otherwise have someone rescue them. People who put a gun in their mouths and pull the trigger seldom fail to kill themselves. These suicidal urges often pass quickly ... unless someone makes a permanent decision in the meantime.

Of course. I was just yanking your chain due to your wording.

Remember that 1/3 of all gun deaths are suicides.