This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar

[Flybrick]

Looks to me like at this point it's about the House majority exploiting a tragedy to score cheap political points while ignoring and obfuscating their own responsibility for failing to pass the laws that might have given agents the authority they needed to actually interdict the guns. --Bob

A majority along with 17 Democrats who voted for the contempt finding and the 21 (22?) who supported the civil court option.

[Bob78164]

Looks to me like at this point it's about the House majority exploiting a tragedy to score cheap political points while ignoring and obfuscating their own responsibility for failing to pass the laws that might have given agents the authority they needed to actually interdict the guns. --Bob

A majority along with 17 Democrats who voted for the contempt finding and the 21 (22?) who supported the civil court option.

Under pressure from the NRA, which will do anything to prevent this from becoming a discussion about the completely toothless laws that made all of these deaths (and countless others) possible.

You haven't even acknowledged that if the Fortune Magazine story is correct, the entire premise of the House's investigation is without basis. --Bob

[Flybrick]

Wow, not even a thought to individual conscience on their part or a concern with the overreach of one branch of government or another.

[minimetoo26]

Wow, not even a thought to individual conscience on their part or a concern with the overreach of one branch of government or another.

I am pleased my local congressman had a thought to individual conscience, at least.

[silverscreenselect]

Looks to me like at this point it's about the House majority exploiting a tragedy to score cheap political points while ignoring and obfuscating their own responsibility for failing to pass the laws that might have given agents the authority they needed to actually interdict the guns. --Bob

A majority along with 17 Democrats who voted for the contempt finding and the 21 (22?) who supported the civil court option.

Under pressure from the NRA, which will do anything to prevent this from becoming a discussion about the completely toothless laws that made all of these deaths (and countless others) possible.

You haven't even acknowledged that if the Fortune Magazine story is correct, the entire premise of the House's investigation is without basis. --Bob

I guess by your theory we should never investigate any government incompetence or corruption because if it's not true, then the entire premise of the investigation is without merit.

Well, Bob, it seems to me that even if the Fortune story is correct, you've got massive incompetence among the ATF and US Attorneys offices, all of whom just happen to be under Holder's supervision. And you've got Holder who has been repeatedly stone walling this investigation every step of the way. And that is the most favorable interpretation of what's happened.

Is this investigation politically motivated? Of course. But it's pretty clear that Obama apologists like you continue to disbelieve anything bad about the man and the damage he is doing to the Democratic party and this nation as a whole. Everything to you is either something that's Bush's fault or a political witchunt so you can choose to ignore it. You're willing to go all the way back to Mitt Romney's high school days to see if he bullied a gay kid, but somehow Obama's and his chief deputy's supervision of the United States Department of Justice is something that's supposed to be off limits because it's politically motivated.

The sooner Democrats stop trying to be in the position of continually defending Obama's incompetence and start trying to work on actually getting this country back on track, the better things will be, and the sooner I'll be glad to resume supporting the Democratic party.

[BackInTex]

Everything to you is either something that's Bush's fault or a political witchunt so you can choose to ignore it. You're willing to go all the way back to Mitt Romney's high school days to see if he bullied a gay kid, but somehow Obama's and his chief deputy's supervision of the United States Department of Justice is something that's supposed to be off limits because it's politically motivated.

Well said.

[Bob78164]

Is this investigation politically motivated? Of course. But it's pretty clear that Obama apologists like you continue to disbelieve anything bad about the man and the damage he is doing to the Democratic party and this nation as a whole. Everything to you is either something that's Bush's fault or a political witchunt so you can choose to ignore it. You're willing to go all the way back to Mitt Romney's high school days to see if he bullied a gay kid, but somehow Obama's and his chief deputy's supervision of the United States Department of Justice is something that's supposed to be off limits because it's politically motivated.

I think you have me confused with someone else. I'm pretty sure I never said a word about the bullying story.

And as for the Congressional investigation, of course it's a legitimate subject. But an unfortunate consequence of today's hyperpartisan atmosphere (which, as far as I'm concerned, is largely to be laid at the feet of Congressional Republicans) is that I don't trust the Republicans who are running it to serve as anything remotely approaching honest brokers. And when that's the case, it's going to take much more compelling evidence than I've seen.

If the Republicans really want to take concrete steps to reduce the likelihood of similar tragedies in the future, they need to start looking at the laws governing the mass purchase of powerful firearms. Not try for headlines in the hope of being able to wave a political scalp. --Bob

[Flybrick]

Err, is it inconvenient to point out that the gun stores involved notified ATFE voluntarily about their suspicisions regarding "straw" purchacers (which is already illegal) and ATFE told them to do the sales because ATFE would watch the guns?

And that those same gun stores repeatedly expressed their concerns regarding these sales and were instructed by ATFE to continue with the sales? Since ATFE is the entity that controls whether these gun stores can remain in business, the store owners followed ATFE instructions.

And the ATFE allowed nearly 2,000 guns to walk despite their charter being to stop the illegal trade of firearms?

That the ATFE coordinated with Customs to let weapons - firearms and grenades - pass through the border checkpoints?

So, the agency responsible for executing the existing gun laws knowingly violated those laws, instructed law-abiding guns stores to sell guns to suspected and known straw buyers, and then tried to use those sales to enact even tougher gun laws as a result, are the ones you think need more laws?

Each and every one of these actions is documented in this thread with news sources cited.

So the fact that Border Patrol Agent Terry, ICE Agent Zapata, and several hundred Mexicans is not good enough for you to want a thorough investigation and the people responsible held accountable?

Those folks are dead and not one person has been held responsible.

News flash - "mass purchase" makes a good soundbite, but has no basis in US fact or law. Now I could go and purchase a mass quantity from the Mexican Army which has a rampant problem of their guns being stolen and winding up in the cartels. Or purchasing a nice freighter full of Chinese AKs. They aren't nearly as finicky about records as the U.S. But in this case, it could be the same, since the President won't let those records be seen. Or even put on a log as is the usual practice and requirement in cases of Executive Privilege.

Will we see you play the race card regarding Holder next?

[Bob Juch]

Five people have been indicted: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/09/us/border ... dictments/

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Beanbags Beanbags

[silverscreenselect]

Beanbags Beanbags

How in the hell do you send federal agents armed only with beanbags up against Mexican drug dealers who are armed to the teeth?

[Bob Juch]

Beanbags Beanbags

How in the hell do you send federal agents armed only with beanbags up against Mexican drug dealers who are armed to the teeth?

It doesn't say they had only beanbags.

[Flybrick]

It doesn't say they had only beanbags.

You take the the gun loaded with beanbags per Border Patrol ROE and live ammo in your pouches and I'll take the gun loaded with live ammo and more live ammo in my pouch per drug cartel ROE.

[Flybrick]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/09/doj-i ... e-blowers/

Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz has launched an investigation into the apparent retaliation from inside the DOJ and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives against whistle-blowers who brought information about Operation Fast and Furious to congressional investigators

Grassley and Issa wrote that in early 2011, when Grassley first made public the whistle-blowers’ allegations about Fast and Furious, Scot Thomasson — then chief of the ATF’s Public Affairs Division — said, according to an eyewitness account: “We need to get whatever dirt we can on these guys [the whistle-blowers] and take them down.”

“All these whistleblowers have axes to grind,” Thomasson also allegedly said. “ATF needs to f–k [sic] these guys.”

Issa and Grassley also pressed Horowitz to examine documents showing that officials in ATF’s Washington headquarters were trying to cover up Fast and Furious two weeks before Grassley began to ask about it. Grassley first made inquiries with the Justice Department and ATF on Jan. 27, 2011; ATF headquarters began preparing internal talking points as early as Jan. 12, 2011.

Emphasis mine. It wasn't the stupidity of the operation. It is and will be the cover-up.

[Bob78164]

It wasn't the stupidity of the operation. It is and will be the cover-up.

There's no way that President Obama or General Holder knew about or approved a cover-up. It's not as though either of them would have hesitated at throwing low-level ATF personnel under the bus. If there was a cover-up, it was low-level bureaucrats trying to cover their own asses. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

It's not as though either of them would have hesitated at throwing low-level ATF personnel under the bus. If there was a cover-up, it was low-level bureaucrats trying to cover their own asses. --Bob

A truly Obamian defense of the man. He can't have known because he's a weasel who would have ratted them out to save his own skin if he had known.

[Flybrick]

And yet the bus was delayed by ignoring Congress for 18 months, then invoking executive privilege. One does wonder why.

And still not one person, at any level, has been held accountable.

Not one. One does wonder why.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78235.html

A majority of Americans approve of the House vote to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress, according to a CNN/ORC survey released Monday.

Indeed, 53 percent of respondents looked favorably upon the rebuke of Holder’s unwillingness to hand over documents related to the Fast and Furious gun-walking program, while 33 percent disapproved of the vote. 13 percent had no opinion.

[Flybrick]

When even Leno is bringing up the subject, it might just be the beginning of the end for those involved...


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jay-leno-its ... r-pistols/

[Flybrick]

A dead Border Patrol agent, a dead ICE agent, several hundred dead Mexicans, nearly 1,000 weapons still unaccounted for and the death toll likely to rise according the Attorney General, and still not one person has been held accountable.

And now this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... print.html

In an unusual arrangement, a senior official of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives involved in the controversial gun operation Fast and Furious is receiving his government salary while working full time for the investment bank J.P. Morgan, according to two Republican lawmakers.

In a letter Tuesday to B. Todd Jones, the acting ATF director, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) said that Deputy Assistant ATF Director William McMahon, who oversaw the agency’s Western region during the Fast and Furious operation, has been receiving two salaries simultaneously.

The lawmakers said the ATF apparently approved allowing McMahon to remain on paid leave for four or five months while working for the investment bank in order to reach retirement eligibility.

“ATF has essentially facilitated McMahon’s early retirement and ability to double dip for nearly half a year by receiving two full-time paychecks — one from the taxpayer and one from the private sector,” Issa and Grassley wrote.

ATF spokesman Mike Campbell said the agency is reviewing the letter. “Due to privacy act considerations, all we can confirm is that Bill McMahon is still currently employed by ATF,” Campbell said.

And that government salary is above $150,000 per year. Depending on his civil service grade (GS-15 or SES), it could be well above $150K.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Jason Weinstein, the deputy assistant attorney general for the Criminal Division, is resigning in the wake of the Justice Department inspector general report on Fast and Furious. The report essentially concludes that he is the most senior department official who was in a position to stop Fast and Furious.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09 ... l-resigns/

[Bob78164]

Jason Weinstein, the deputy assistant attorney general for the Criminal Division, is resigning in the wake of the Justice Department inspector general report on Fast and Furious. The report essentially concludes that he is the most senior department official who was in a position to stop Fast and Furious.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09 ... l-resigns/

Here is the Inspector General's report, which clears Attorney General Holder, in full. --Bob

[BackInTex]

Here[/url] is the Inspector General's report, which clears Attorney General Holder, in full. --Bob

Who does the Inspector General report to? I forget.

[silverscreenselect]

Jason Weinstein, the deputy assistant attorney general for the Criminal Division, is resigning in the wake of the Justice Department inspector general report on Fast and Furious. The report essentially concludes that he is the most senior department official who was in a position to stop Fast and Furious.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09 ... l-resigns/

Here is the Inspector General's report, which clears Attorney General Holder, in full. --Bob

I guess it's some solace to be revealed as massively incompetent, like his boss, rather than criminally culpable.

[BackInTex]

Here[/url] is the Inspector General's report, which clears Attorney General Holder, in full. --Bob

Who does the Inspector General report to? I forget.

Found it.

The Inspector General, who is appointed by the President subject to Senate confirmation, reports to the Attorney General and Congress.

Seems like we can trust his report.

[Bob78164]

Here[/url] is the Inspector General's report, which clears Attorney General Holder, in full. --Bob

Who does the Inspector General report to? I forget.

Found it.

The Inspector General, who is appointed by the President subject to Senate confirmation, reports to the Attorney General and Congress.

And of course, the House majority has no political agenda whatsoever. --Bob