At least they can agree on something.Flybrick wrote:http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/15/brian ... animously/
Late Wednesday night, on the eve of the one year anniversary of Border Patrol agent Brian Terry’s murder with weapons sold during Operation Fast and Furious, the House of Representatives passed the Brian A. Terry Memorial Act of 2011 by unanimous consent.
This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Flybrick
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
I'm a racist because I focus on Operation Fast and Furious.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/19/justi ... th-racism/
I did not know that about myself.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/19/justi ... th-racism/
I did not know that about myself.
- Bob78164
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Could you provide a quick link to the New York Times interview referenced in the story? I couldn't find it quickly, and I'd like to read the reference in context. Thanks. --BobFlybrick wrote:I'm a racist because I focus on Operation Fast and Furious.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/19/justi ... th-racism/
I did not know that about myself.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/us/po ... rs-on.html
My emphasis.
Either incompetance or covering up. Take your pick
But Mr. Holder contended that many of his other critics — not only elected Republicans but also a broader universe of conservative commentators and bloggers — were instead playing “Washington gotcha” games, portraying them as frequently “conflating things, conveniently leaving some stuff out, construing things to make it seem not quite what it was” to paint him and other department figures in the worst possible light.
Of that group of critics, Mr. Holder said he believed that a few — the “more extreme segment” — were motivated by animus against Mr. Obama and that he served as a stand-in for him. “This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him,” he said, “both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.”
Mr. Holder, however, attributed most of the hostility to underlying ideological differences. “I think that people, despite my law enforcement background, view me as taking these consistently progressive stands, and I think that, philosophically, there is a desire to get at that person,” he said. “But I think the stands I have taken are totally consistent with a person who is looking at things realistically, factually.”
.Two Republicans, Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa and Representative Darrell Issa of California, have led an inquiry into the operation. Mr. Holder has denounced the tactics used in the operation, known as “gunwalking,” but said he did not know about them or sanction their use
My emphasis.
Factually incorrect reporting by the NYT (Shocked, I tell you. Shocked.) There is plenty of documentary evidence that he was given the information via briefings, e-mails, conference calls; his primary deputy admits to knowing of the operation; his chief of staff knew; his FBI director knew, the head of the DEA knew, the acting head of ATF knew.No documents or testimony have shown otherwise, but Republicans have pummeled him at oversight hearings and in news media appearances. Some accused him of perjury; others floated theories that the operation was intended to go bad so as to build a case for stronger gun-control laws and called the Holder Justice Department an accessory to murder.
Either incompetance or covering up. Take your pick
- Bob78164
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Thanks for providing a link to the story.Flybrick wrote:I'm a racist because I focus on Operation Fast and Furious.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/19/justi ... th-racism/
I did not know that about myself.
Your quip is not even close to a fair summary of the original source material. Holder said that most of the opposition is motivated by ideology and partisan rancor. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Sorry, Mr. Holder, but a few of us have no problem with your politics, ideology or race, and are still outraged. Your Justice Department screwed up royally, and the buck stops with you.
I hope that, in exchange for Holder's resignation, the Senate Republicans would agree to vote on his successor. Nobody benefits if we don't have an Attorney General until 2013.
I hope that, in exchange for Holder's resignation, the Senate Republicans would agree to vote on his successor. Nobody benefits if we don't have an Attorney General until 2013.
Слава Україні!
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Obama and those in his administration have been quick to trot out the race card whenever he's been criticized, as President or as a candidate. The Republican critics of Holder join a distinguished list of other anti-Obama racists such as Bill and Hillary Clinton.jarnon wrote:Sorry, Mr. Holder, but a few of us have no problem with your politics, ideology or race, and are still outraged. Your Justice Department screwed up royally, and the buck stops with you.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://pjmedia.com/blog/gunwalker-anger ... ns-chorus/
The scandal surrounding Operation Fast and Furious just became far more problematic for the Obama administration, as former Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Lieberman, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee, is now examining miscommunication between law enforcement agencies as it relates to the gunwalking plot:
A spokesperson told The Daily Caller Wednesday that Lieberman “believe[s] that the lack of interagency coordination along the border merits further examination, and as Chairman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, he has directed his staff to follow up with the relevant federal agencies on that topic.”
Neither the DEA nor the FBI warned the Border Patrol of the expected criminal activity in the area, avoiding the standard practice of deconfliction to assure the safety of other law enforcement assets in the area. As a result of this failure, a BORTAC team went into Peck Canyon that night. In the resulting, entirely preventable firefight that followed between the BORTAC unit and the FBI-criminal informant-led rip crew, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed.
In what is assuredly coincidental news, Customs and Border Patrol Commissioner Alan Bersin announced his departure on the same day Senator Lieberman announced his probe. Bersin had been given a recess appointment to the position by President Obama in March of 2010, an appointment that would have expired on December 31. USA Today notes:
Bersin served as Obama’s border czar, a post the administration created to focus on issues related to illegal immigration and relations with Mexico in its war against drug cartels, before being elevated to head of CBP. He also previously helped coordinate law enforcement efforts at the Mexican border during the Clinton administration while he was working at the Justice Department.
Bersin had been questioned by Senator Charles Grassley on March 16 of this year to explain why his agency had let gunwalking straw purchaser Jaime Avila go after intercepting him with two WASR-10 rifles near the border in the spring or summer of 2010. Not only was he let go, they did not seize the weapons.
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Wow. Nobody is responsible. UFB.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/24 ... s-20111225
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/24 ... s-20111225
In a confidential deposition with congressional investigators, the then-head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives blamed agents, field supervisors and even his top command for never advising him that for more than a year, his agency allowed illegal gun sales along the southwestern U.S. border.
The deposition, which was taken in July and was recently obtained by the Washington bureau, shows that Kenneth E. Melson was irate. Even his chief intelligence officer at ATF headquarters was upset with the operation, dubbed Fast and Furious, but did little to shut it down, Melson complained. "He didn't come in and tell me, either," Melson said. "And he's on the same damn floor as I am."
But B. Todd Jones, Melson's replacement as acting director of the agency, said in an interview that Melson allowed overzealous field agents and supervisors to go beyond approved tactics.
"Anybody, including Mr. Melson, who waits for things to happen or waits for information to come to them, that is something I personally am not a believer in," Jones said. "I'm a believer in management by walking around. If you're not hearing it, you seek it out. And there are a lot of ways to do that other than sitting in your corner office waiting for memos to come in."
In his deposition, Melson said that the lack of management oversight went beyond his own agency to the Justice Department.
Once Fast and Furious broke into public view, Melson said, Justice officials strenuously objected when he wanted to disclose everything to Congress. "We were floating the idea and asking them to allow us to do that," he said. But he said he was told "it is a long-standing policy of the Department of Justice that we don't talk about ongoing cases."
Justice officials said they were never told about the Fast and Furious tactics and cite ATF internal emails as evidence.
Hours after Terry was killed south of Tucson, David J. Voth, the ATF group supervisor for Fast and Furious in Phoenix, sent an email to lead Agent Hope A. MacAllister. He titled the email, "no more rose colored glasses."
"If you have not heard a Border Patrol agent was shoot and killed here in Arizona," he told her. "The trace came back to Fast and Furious…Ugh...! Call as soon as you can, things will most likely get ugly."
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... medium=RSS
Prosecutors who asked a federal court to seal the records in the killing of a U.S. Border Patrol agent as part of their investigation into the “Fast and Furious” operation now say they will ask that some of the documents be made public - more than a year after the shooting death.
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
And of course you buy that, sell that, and sleep with that. Because its Holder.Bob78164 wrote: Holder said that most of the opposition is motivated by ideology and partisan rancor. --Bob
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- Bob78164
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
You're quoting me out of context. I take no position on what Holder said. I was simply pointing out that Brick's summary of the story was, in my view, inaccurate, and supplying a more accurate summary on the point. --BobBackInTex wrote:And of course you buy that, sell that, and sleep with that. Because its Holder.Bob78164 wrote: Holder said that most of the opposition is motivated by ideology and partisan rancor. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Being "accurate" in this matter killed a US Border Patrol agent in Arizona, a DEA agent in Mexico, and several hundred Mexicans in Mexico.
There is a report from today of a Maricopa County deputy being killed, as well as two tourists in Sedona, murdered by a guy using an AK. Forensics are being run to see if its a "Fast and Furious" gun.
How's that for "accuracy?"
There is a report from today of a Maricopa County deputy being killed, as well as two tourists in Sedona, murdered by a guy using an AK. Forensics are being run to see if its a "Fast and Furious" gun.
How's that for "accuracy?"
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71669.html
House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) announced Thursday that he will subpoena a top Justice Department official over his role in the botched Fast and Furious gun-walking operation.
Issa argued that Cunningham had made the subpoena necessary by declining to appear before his committee voluntarily.
“Yesterday, you canceled your interview scheduled with the Committee,” writes Issa. “The Committee has made every effort to accommodate you… Your sudden withdrawal, without any explanation, is unfortunate. It has also delayed the Committee’s ability to uncover the truth about this reckless program.”
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
This probably isn't good news for the DOJ and/or the Attorney General:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01 ... n-furious/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01 ... n-furious/
The chief of the Criminal Division of the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona is refusing to testify before Congress regarding Operation Fast and Furious, the federal gun-running scandal that sent U.S. weapons to Mexico.
Patrick J. Cunningham informed the House Oversight Committee late Thursday through his attorney that he will use the Fifth Amendment protection.
Cunningham is represented by Tobin Romero of Williams and Connolly who is a specialist in white collar crime. In the letter, he suggests witnesses from the Department of Justice in Washington, who have spoken in support of Attorney General Eric Holder, are wrong or lying.
“Department of Justice officials have reported to the Committee that my client relayed inaccurate information to the Department upon which it relied in preparing its initial response to Congress. If, as you claim, Department officials have blamed my client, they have blamed him unfairly,” the letter to Issa says.
Romero claims Cunningham did nothing wrong and acted in good faith, but the Department of Justice in Washington is making him the fall guy, claiming he failed to accurately provide the Oversight Committee with information on the execution of Fast and Furious.
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Sounds to me like it's bad news for Cunningham. He says he did nothing wrong but is taking the 5th?!Flybrick wrote:This probably isn't good news for the DOJ and/or the Attorney General:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01 ... n-furious/
The chief of the Criminal Division of the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona is refusing to testify before Congress regarding Operation Fast and Furious, the federal gun-running scandal that sent U.S. weapons to Mexico.
Patrick J. Cunningham informed the House Oversight Committee late Thursday through his attorney that he will use the Fifth Amendment protection.Cunningham is represented by Tobin Romero of Williams and Connolly who is a specialist in white collar crime. In the letter, he suggests witnesses from the Department of Justice in Washington, who have spoken in support of Attorney General Eric Holder, are wrong or lying.
“Department of Justice officials have reported to the Committee that my client relayed inaccurate information to the Department upon which it relied in preparing its initial response to Congress. If, as you claim, Department officials have blamed my client, they have blamed him unfairly,” the letter to Issa says.
Romero claims Cunningham did nothing wrong and acted in good faith, but the Department of Justice in Washington is making him the fall guy, claiming he failed to accurately provide the Oversight Committee with information on the execution of Fast and Furious.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Flybrick
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Bob Juch wrote:Sounds to me like it's bad news for Cunningham. He says he did nothing wrong but is taking the 5th?!
Exactly, which is why I surmise that it might not be good news for DOJ and Holder.
1. Cunningham is a DOJ employee which if he did something illegal, it will reflect badly on DOJ.
2. If he did something illegal, eventually some sort of investigation/prosocutor will be involved.
3. If a prosecutor gets involved, Cunningham would be silly not to seek a deal that gives immunity or a reduced sentence (assuming he's found guilty or enough evidence mounts to make him think he will be convicted) in exchange for information on more senior DOJ personnel involved with Fast and Furious.
Therefore, this development is probably not good news for DOJ and Holder.
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
According to the story, the Committee claims his bosses have accused him of lying to Congress. Of course he's going to invoke. --BobBob Juch wrote:Sounds to me like it's bad news for Cunningham. He says he did nothing wrong but is taking the 5th?!Flybrick wrote:This probably isn't good news for the DOJ and/or the Attorney General:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01 ... n-furious/
The chief of the Criminal Division of the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona is refusing to testify before Congress regarding Operation Fast and Furious, the federal gun-running scandal that sent U.S. weapons to Mexico.
Patrick J. Cunningham informed the House Oversight Committee late Thursday through his attorney that he will use the Fifth Amendment protection.Cunningham is represented by Tobin Romero of Williams and Connolly who is a specialist in white collar crime. In the letter, he suggests witnesses from the Department of Justice in Washington, who have spoken in support of Attorney General Eric Holder, are wrong or lying.
“Department of Justice officials have reported to the Committee that my client relayed inaccurate information to the Department upon which it relied in preparing its initial response to Congress. If, as you claim, Department officials have blamed my client, they have blamed him unfairly,” the letter to Issa says.
Romero claims Cunningham did nothing wrong and acted in good faith, but the Department of Justice in Washington is making him the fall guy, claiming he failed to accurately provide the Oversight Committee with information on the execution of Fast and Furious.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Flybrick
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
Bob78164 wrote:According to the story, the Committee claims his bosses have accused him of lying to Congress. Of course he's going to invoke. --Bob
Yeah, it's that mean ol' committee's fault.
I readily admit that the Issa committee is politically partisan in this matter. It doesn't detract one bit from the death of the Border Patrol agent in Arizona, the DEA agent in Mexico, and the several hundred Mexicans was caused by a DOJ-sponsered and run joint operation (DEA, ATFE, FBI, CBP, etc).
Nearly 2,000 weapons were allowed to knowingly walk into the hands of very violent drug gangs. Hundreds of those weapons are still unaccounted for and Holder himself stated that more were likely to die as a result of those weapons in very bad guys' hands.
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/26/issa- ... om-holder/
House Oversight Committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa is demanding that Attorney General Eric Holder provide a new witness for a transcribed interview with Congress about Fast and Furious: The assistant to the Department of Justice official who pled the Fifth Amendment.
Now that Cunningham has decided to refuse to cooperate with congressional investigators and is pleading the Fifth, Issa told Holder he wants to talk to the official who reported directly to Cunningham. That official is Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Morrissey.
“Since August, the department has identified Patrick Cunningham as the best person in the U.S. Attorney’s Office to provide information about Fast and Furious to the committee,” Issa wrote in a Wednesday letter to Holder. “The department has refused to make Michael Morrissey and Emory Hurley, both assistant United States attorneys supervised by Mr. Cunningham, available to speak with the committee, citing a policy of not making ‘line attorneys’ available for congressional scrutiny. Mr. Morrissey, however, was Mr. Hurley’s direct supervisor, and an integral part of Fast and Furious. Importantly, both Morrissey and Hurley are unique in their possession of key factual knowledge about Fast and Furious not readily available from any other source.”
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/28/lates ... gent-died/
Attorney General Eric Holder’s Department of Justice dumped documents related to Operation Fast and Furious on congressional officials late Friday night. Central to this document dump is a series of emails showing Holder was informed of slain Border Patrol agent Brian Terry’s murder on the day it happened – December 15, 2010 – and that he was informed the weapons used to kill Terry were from Fast and Furious on the same day.
Emphasis mine.That email was sent at 2:31 a.m. on the day Terry was shot. One hour later, a follow-up email read: “Our agent has passed away.”
Burke forwarded those two emails to Holder’s then-deputy chief of staff Monty Wilkinson later that morning, adding that the incident was “not good” because it happened “18 miles w/in” the border.
Wilkinson responded to Burke shortly thereafter and said the incident was “tragic.” “I’ve alerted the AG [Holder], the Acting DAG, Lisa, etc.”
Then, later that day, Burke followed up with Wilkinson after Burke discovered from officials whose names are redacted that the guns used to kill Terry were from Fast and Furious. “The guns found in the desert near the murder BP officer connect back to the investigation we were going to talk about – they were AK-47s purchased at a Phoenix gun store,” Burke wrote to Wilkinson.
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/us/po ... ation.html
AG Holder is scheduled to testify before the Committee this coming Thursday.
So, a report exonerating him and his senior management appears two days before he is to appear.
That's convenient.
Interesting conclusion given that the AG hasn't yet testified before the Committee but the Democrats have completed their report.WASHINGTON — Democrats on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee on Tuesday are expected to publish a report on the disputed gun trafficking investigation called Operation Fast and Furious, concluding that agents in Arizona — not Obama administration officials — were responsible for the tactics used in the inquiry and for providing misleading information relayed to Congress
AG Holder is scheduled to testify before the Committee this coming Thursday.
So, a report exonerating him and his senior management appears two days before he is to appear.
That's convenient.
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72324.html
I can see how there is a "misunderstanding" between Congress and the AG.
A top Justice Department official told House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa on Wednesday that the department was not stonewalling the congressional investigation into the botched “Fast-and-Furious” gun-walking operation, saying the chairman’s criticisms “seem predicated on significant misunderstandings.”
“We remain committed to working to accommodate the committee’s legitimate oversight needs,” Deputy Attorney General James Cole told Issa in a five-page letter. “Your criticisms of the department, in general…. seem predicated on significant misunderstandings.”
Cole added that the DOJ intended to provide documents created after Feb. 4, 2011, so long as they did not “implicate other recognized department interests in confidentiality (for example… matters reflecting internal department deliberations).”
The Republican majority on the Oversight and Government Reform Committee took aim at that exception, arguing that it was so broadly worded, so as to encompass a substantial number of documents of interest on the “Fast-and-Furious” operation.
“The assertion that internal discussions about Operation Fast and Furious from after Feb. 4, 2011, should remain secret and off limits to investigators is inconsistent with the Justice Department’s legal obligations and precedent,” Issa spokesperson Frederick Hill told POLITICO. “The Justice Department is under investigation for both its conduct during Operation Fast and Furious as well as its response to whistleblowers and investigators who expressed concern about reckless conduct.”
Emphasis mine. So which is it: DOJ will or will not turn over material dated 5 Feb 11 and onward. Holder stated they wouldn't. Now his spokesman is trying to walk that back.During a House Judiciary Committee hearing in December, Holder said the Justice Department had disclosed to Congress some records from early 2011 that showed how the agency crafted a Feb. 4, 2011 letter that officials later withdrew as inaccurate. However, Holder seemed to reject House members’ demands for e-mails and other information that was generated after the February letter was sent.
“We have produced a really substantial amount of stuff around the February 4th letter, but…let me just be very clear that with regard to documents that go beyond that, from February the 5th on, materials have not been produced and it is not our intention to produce them following that,” Holder said at the hearing.
“There are emails, materials that we have not and will not produce,” he added, citing the Justice Department’s practice during prior administrations.
Cole said in his letter Wednesday that Issa should not have interpreted Holder’s comments as a flat refusal to turn over “fast-and-furious”-related records created after last February.
“It appears you have misconstrued our position with respect to this issue,” Cole wrote. He said the department was willing to turn over some such records, but that certain categories would be off limits, such as records about efforts to respond to the Congressional probe or media inquiries as well as records disclosing “internal Department deliberations.”
I can see how there is a "misunderstanding" between Congress and the AG.
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Re: This also shouldn't fly under the (political) radar
http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/02/holde ... %e2%80%99/
The head of the Department of Justice’s Criminal Division and Attorney General Eric Holder’s highest-ranking deputy, Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, called Operation Fast and Furious and gun walking a “terrific idea” in emails to now-former Acting Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Director Ken Melson back in late 2009, according a report released by Republican staff of the House Oversight Committee.
On Dec. 3, 2009, Melson wrote to Breuer, “Lanny: We have decided to take a little different approach with regard to seizures of multiple weapons in Mexico. Assuming the guns are traced, instead of working each trace almost independently of the other traces from the seizure, I want to coordinate and monitor the work on all of them collectively as if the seizure was one case. . . We should meet again just to catch up on where we are in our gun-trafficking issues and we could talk about the above idea as well. Let me know what you think.”
Breuer responded on Dec. 4, 2009, writing, “We think this is a terrific idea and a great way to approach the investigations of these seizures. Our Gang Unit will be assigning an attorney to help you coordinate this effort.”
According to Fox News, on Wednesday, Deputy Attorney General James Cole denied that Breuer and Melson were talking about Fast and Furious and its tactics. “In light of Assistant Attorney General Breuer’s commitment to stemming the flow of guns from the United States into Mexico and his strong ties and collaborative relationships with his counterparts in Mexico, it is inconceivable that his intention was to have guns released into Mexico,” Cole wrote.