My truth about Hillary

[trevor_macfee]

An interesting take on this on the Washington Post website - "The Hillary Effect on Young Girls" - http://blog.washingtonpost.com/onbalanc ... s-col-blog

[starfish1113]

I have come to believe there is something important going on with Hillary's run for the presidency. I see it in my 10-year old daughter's eyes every time Hillary is shown speaking on TV. There is something about her (Hillary) being a "girl" that just resonates with my daughter. Perhaps it is because she has gone through school with a class that has had about 6 girls each year and about 20 boys (at her school there is only one class of each elementary grade so the students mostly move up together). The tight bonds that those girls have forged have, I think, made her very aware of "girl power."

.

This is anecdotal and does not jibe with my experiences (which of course are also anecdotal). We have three daughters in our family, a 10 year old and two 9 year olds. My wife and I don't talk politics at home, partly because we are of different parties and really want our kids to make their own decisions without being influenced by disagreeing parents. So, my guess is that whatever political thought they get is from school. Anyway, one 9-year old is oblivious to the political process and the other two have almost hostile reactions to Hillary when they see her, and it's not because they have both turned into rabid Republicans. One likes McCain and the other likes Obama. There has never been anything said in our house that would cause them to think this way. It's just that, for one reason or another, they do not like her. I'm not saying that this is a common reaction, but I'm sure that my family isn't the only one with little girls who aren't swayed by Hillary's gender.

[Jeemie]

Progress based on your conversation with kids?

Um...who said I was talking to KIDS?

When I was a kid, I thought I could do all sorts of things. I was going to be a president, an astronaut whatever.

Me too- I outgrew that kind of thinking when I was about 9, though...a tad below the age of people that I was talking about.

When you get older, you realize what specific impediments there are to doing different things. Some of those impediments involve what sex you are. There are challenges to males and challenges to females. It is just how it is.

They are only impediments if you view them that way. The younger generation does not. The ones I see tend to follow the maxim "Things are only impossible until they're not.

They don't believe in the phrase "it is just how it is".

If a female ends up being President some day, it does, in some way that may not be measurable to you, it does change what people see is truly possible.

Again- it all is in how you view it...it all depends upon your perception.

I'm telling you- my experience is that there will be many people who will not need the concrete example of the first woman or the first black to become President to believe it is possible.

Those who will think it's a big deal will tend to be the "older crowd"- that's my prediction.

Though I will say that if Hillary Clinton becomes President, I'm not sure she is the role model of the way to become President:

Get good grades. Check
Get a great education. Check
Work hard at your job. Check
Marry a charismatic turd and forgive his massive transgressions. Huh?
Then it's your turn. Uh check.

Now THAT I can agree with!

Though I will say that if she became President, and was able to conduct herself with dignity and excellence at her job, she would be quite role model.

Menfolk as Presidents--They are just dudes who are better or worse at what they do.
Female as President--Representing her gender. That's just the way it will be seen.

Again- I don't believe that idea will be as prevalent as you think.

[PlacentiaSoccerMom]

So, to sum up, the election of Hillary Clinton truly would be a great day for White, European-descent, occasionally-practicing Methodist, Former First Ladies everywhere.

My household is full of Atheistic people of Jewish descent and if Hillary Clinton won, it would be a great day for us, just because, in our opinion, the best person won.

[PlacentiaSoccerMom]

I have come to believe there is something important going on with Hillary's run for the presidency. I see it in my 10-year old daughter's eyes every time Hillary is shown speaking on TV. There is something about her (Hillary) being a "girl" that just resonates with my daughter. Perhaps it is because she has gone through school with a class that has had about 6 girls each year and about 20 boys (at her school there is only one class of each elementary grade so the students mostly move up together). The tight bonds that those girls have forged have, I think, made her very aware of "girl power."

I think that the "girl power" idea resonates with my younger daughter far more than my older daughter. Now that I think of it, Emma is one of 10 girls in a glass of 30 GATE kids. There were more girls than boys in Maddie's classes, so Maddie was just able to do the things that she wanted to without a lot of competition.

My mother told Emma that if a Democrat wins the election, the terrorists will come to the US and blow us all up and so Emma feels conflicted. She wants Hillary to win for the sake of the issues, but is worried that if she or Obama wins, then the terrorists will immediately start attacking the US. (I've told her they won't, but she worries about the state of the world.)

[Bixby17]

They are only impediments if you view them that way. The younger generation does not. The ones I see tend to follow the maxim "Things are only impossible until they're not.

I live in the reality based world. There are impediments to all sorts of people of all different backgrounds. An impediment is something that isn't impossible but is something to overcome.

If you are a female doing stuff that females don't typically do, you face impediments but not impossibilities. I don't think that anyone who is going through that pretends that the impediments don't exist. It's my belief that understanding those impediments makes it easier to overcome them.

I am not sure that is something that is generational despite your anecdotal claims to the contrary of the young people you have spoken with.

I know that every time that I've succeeded in things that women haven't done much of in the past, I've heard from girls and women who find what I've done inspirational.

I still don't know if America is ready to elect a female president. It may be that they just don't want to elect Hillary with her baggage.

But I also have a hard time envisioning the perfect female candidate. There's just not many examples out there--most smart women with the credentials for the job (intelligence, hard worker, charisma, great public speaker, willing to ask for money), are too smart to want to bring ugly politics on themselves or their families.

There's impediments to most people who have half a thought to be President. I think that females have some unique impediments, in that in some ways in our society overt sexism is just a form a humor.

And though I disagree with a lot of the stuff she did on the bench, I do think that Sandra Day O'Connor was an inspiration to me as a young person when she was on the court. She graduated at the top of her law school class in the 1950's yet no law firm would hire her. That she was able to be on the highest court in the land, despite overt discrimination, was a cool thought to me.

[wintergreen48]

This is how I felt...until...

Had a conversation this weekend with my girlfriend about this...

I told her that I like both, but, I am leaning toward Hillary...

Well, got an inside scoop on Senator Clinton...

When she was on her book tour... she was not very nice or receptive to the book store owner, she was rude to her own staff, and no one was allowed to touch her (shake her hands) there were staff that would take the book from you, hand it to Hillary, she would hand it to another staff member, who would then hand it to you. The end!

I have been to an event that this same Book store owner has had...she is wonderful, helpful, and very receptive to all. It took us 3 hours to get a book signed...and we got to meet the person, shake hands and have a small conversation! This person has endorsed Obama, and doesn't come out very often to do so...

So...I am rethinking who I want to fix this country in the next 4 years!

fuzzy

This is probably the heart of the 'Hilary Problem,' and why she has the biggest negatives of any prominent politician (i.e., her 'Anyone but...' numbers are higher than anyone else's)-- she is, at her core, a nasty, unpleasant, humorless person, and that grates on people, regardless of her or their politics.

A lot of the 'politics of personal destruction' business that occurred during Bill's Presidency was really her doing rather than Bill's or their various functionaries. Consider how, when the Monica stuff came out (NOT from Monica, who usually managed to keep her mouth shut, at least, she kept it shut when she was not in Bill's office, but from Linda Tripp, who secretly taped her private calls with Monica-- tapes which Tripp made because she had earlier blown the whistle on an earlier, very low-level contretemps in the administration and had her career ruined because she had no proof of her allegations): in addition to the rantings about the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, Hilary was everywhere, going on about how Monica was a delusional sociopath who made everything up, a groupie who stalked high powered men; she and her toadies managed to get Monica's psychiatric history on the front page, they rounded up former professors and employers to go public about how Monica preyed on people as part of her delusional fantasies, etc., really trashing someone who herself never went public, and who (it turns out) was NOT fantasizing about what went on. But that 'destroy a person who is a threat, whatever the human cost' approach was typical of Hilary.

That also shows up in a lot of the more personal kinds of things that people note (and mock) about her. For example, Hilary's cackle: shared laughter is a common human experience, but a mean, humorless person just cannot laugh convincingly; Hilary's cackle is what a 'laugh' sounds like when it is forced (just like her attempt to talk Suthren a few months ago, when she tried to quote a spiritual in dialect, and just sounded foolish).

The net result of it all is that she has huge negatives that she has to overcome: that kind of stuff just turns people off at election time. Remember how Dick Cheney promised years ago that he would not run for President after Bush's term ended? This was not because of concerns about his health, or his family, or anything like that, it is because he is a mean, nasty individual, but one who is smart enough to know that he could never win a national election in his own right, and so, he cut his losses by offering/promising that he would not do something that he could not possibly have done successfully anyway. People like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter supposedly have huge followings, but they also have huge negatives, and you will never see any of them running for office, for the same reason-- while their cults may support them and clamor for them to run for office, there are just too many of us who will go out of our way to vote AGAINST them, for it to be worthwhile for them to run for anything. You can get away with having a mean, nasty person working for you (James Carville did 'good' work for Bill Clinton, who can be mean but has a lot of natural charm to cover it over, and Karl Rove did 'good' work for Bush, who, his critics would suggest, is too stupid to be mean), but it is hard to succeed if YOU are a mean, nasty person.

The biggest things that Hilary has going for her are the 'gimmick' nature of her candidacy (the first serious run by a woman-- there are a LOT of people who support her on gender reasons alone) and her ability from time to time to play the 'victim' card (worked well for her in New Hampshire, did not work at all in South Carolina, probably because Bill overdid it and delivered the victimization trump to Obama).

Hilary's political policies/issues really do not diverge significantly from Obama's, her 'brand' and name recognition are both far better known than his, and she had a much earlier start in the campaign than he did (she's been gunning for this since 1992, at least, and it was certainly no secret when she first ran for the Senate in 2000 that should would use it as a platform to seek the Presidency in 2008) and early on raised tons more money (in the time before Obama was in the Senate): given all the basic advantages that she has, the ONLY reason that there is an actual contest between them is that her negatives are holding her back, giving Obama-- who does not really differ from her politically in any significant way, but who is, by all accounts, a fundamentally decent person-- a shot.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

We've gone this far without mentioning Geraldine Ferraro I guess it don't count unless you win.

[trevor_macfee]

After picking up my daughter at school, I have to reconsider some of what I said earlier in the thread . . .

Her class had an "election" today. I asked her who she voted for - she said, "Obama." I asked, "I thought you liked Hillary." She replied, "Well, after we saw their speeches on YouTube the other night" (we watched them together) "I decided I like Obama better."

I asked her who the other girls in her class voted for, she said the "Straight A girl" had said, "I'm a republican but I really liked what Obama said in a speech I saw yesterday so I voted for him." The "rich girl" voted for McCain ("But she kept calling him McClain" my daughter said), and the "sort of ditsy girl" "didn't know who any of them were so she voted for the girl." That's all she knew for sure.

So . . . Starfish's earlier post about Hillary's lack of global girl influence may be closer to the truth than my idea of her impact.

Interesting stuff.

[Bob78164]

[Hillary] is, at her core, a nasty, unpleasant, humorless person, and that grates on people, regardless of her or their politics.

Is your description of Senator Clinton's character an inference/judgment on your part based on the evidence recited in the balance of your post, or do you have personal experience with her of the type related by fuzzy? --Bob

[TheConfessor]

This is probably the heart of the 'Hilary Problem,' and why she has the biggest negatives of any prominent politician (i.e., her 'Anyone but...' numbers are higher than anyone else's)-- she is, at her core, a nasty, unpleasant, humorless person, and that grates on people, regardless of her or their politics.

Much of what you wrote makes sense, but you could at least give her the benefit of the doubt and allow her to spell her name with two Ls.

[marrymeflyfree]

...and no one was allowed to touch her (shake her hands) there were staff that would take the book from you, hand it to Hillary, she would hand it to another staff member, who would then hand it to you. The end!

As one who works in very small places crammed full of lots of people from many walks of life, I can sympathize. Yes it is totally snarky of her to do it, but I understand it. There is some serious sensory overload at times...so many different faces and wants and needs and germs that it is almost too much. I feel that way sometimes, and I don't even touch my passengers. I'm probably the least germaphobic person I know, but really I can't imagine how yucky they must feel after shaking hands all day with the masses. That's one area where I'll give her a pass...

[ne1410s]

mmff:

I can't imagine how yucky they must feel after shaking hands all day with the masses. That's one area where I'll give her a pass...

HRC noted, on 60 Minutes, that she constantly washes her hands and eats a lot hot peppers to stay healthy. Washing constantly I can take, but, eating hot peppers??? Now that's a deal breaker...

[Bob Juch]

mmff:

I can't imagine how yucky they must feel after shaking hands all day with the masses. That's one area where I'll give her a pass...

HRC noted, on 60 Minutes, that she constantly washes her hands and eats a lot hot peppers to stay healthy. Washing constantly I can take, but, eating hot peppers??? Now that's a deal breaker...

Just don't stand behind her!

Actually, peppers are a very high source of vitamin C.

[marrymeflyfree]

Actually, peppers are a very high source of vitamin C.

I think there is something about the capsaicin in peppers that fights off certain types of infections, too. My best bud in this world is HIV+...every time he feels a cold coming on, he eats desperately spicy food for days until it passes. Somehow, he manages never to get actually sick despite his 2 pack a day smoking habit.

I'll never forget sitting with him at some Korean restaurant during one of these episodes. We'd ordered some impossibly hot stew-like dish that was full of kimchee and God knows whatever else. We sat at the table there for hours with the stew simmering on the hot plate, getting spicier and spicier, both of us literally dripping with sweat while trying to eat this stuff to kill our colds. It isn't as fun a cure as my famous hot toddy, but it works!

[5LD]

I went door to door in the projects for Hillary's Senate bid on election day getting out the vote. I was 100% in her corner during that time. Since, I have changed my mind about her. Several tales of promises made and not kept in NY State, but then taking credit for helping when all she did was provide lip service.

I am also left out of the Obama-MO. I don't get the excitement. To me he is dull and boring, staged and trite and is clearly not experienced enough for the monumental task facing this next president. I think he has no idea what he's in for and I don't trust his core values to remain in place once he's president and being bombarded with bs from both directions.

McCain? Nope. Too old. Too Flippy floppy. Liked him the first time he ran for President, not so much now.

I have no idea who I will vote for. I am a lifelong Progressive Democrat and I have no candidate that I am comfortable with in this election. I am an informed progressive. I read political news every day, several times a day. I visit the websites, read the policy proposals and I don't know of anyone I think is capable of leading us out of this damnable mess.

We need a super hero. What we've got is media fanfare. Big difference.

[peacock2121]

We need a super hero. What we've got is media fanfare. Big difference.

This my dilemma.

I will be horrified if a Democrat does not lead our country starting next year. I believe Hillary is a better choice than Barack. I do not know that that is true, it is what I believe.

I will have just one choice come Novemeber.

I will choose that one.