Nelly was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

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silverscreenselect · #26 Post by **silverscreenselect** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:24 pm

I have seen a theory bandied around that one of the reasons Hillary did relatively poorly among women in Iowa (trailing Obama) is that many women attended the caucuses with their husbands/significant others. The caucuses require a public show of support and some of those women may have been unwilling, for whatever reason, to go against their Obama/Edwards hubby publicly and stand in Hillary's corner.

In New Hampshire, which was a secret ballot primary, that wouldn't be a consideration.

Not sure how much weight to place on a theory like this.

gsabc · #27 Post by **gsabc** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:28 pm

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:
mrkelley23 wrote: The fact that many people (not just women) seem to think this was a spontaneous, emotional moment for a woman who didn't even cry when her husband was exposed in front of her on national television as a philanderer seems unbelievable to me. But then there seem to be a lot of people who believe that Roger Clemens taping his "spontaneous" phone call with his former trainer was not a planned, manipulative ploy also.

There are times when I cry because the cat has thrown up a nasty hairball after I've just cleaned the floor, yet when my Dad died, I didn't cry for days.

If my husband cheated on me, I would be angry and would cut off his nuts, but I wouldn't cry.

Bill and Hillary were travelling somewhere the day after he admitted the Monica affair to her. There was a news shot of Hillary standing at the top of Air Force One's stairs while Bill came up and entered the plane. Her expression looked like she was having trouble restraining herself from doing a "left face" and kneeing him in the groin as he passed by. Crying may have happened in private, but publicly, she was "merely" pissed.

PlacentiaSoccerMom · #28 Post by **PlacentiaSoccerMom** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:32 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:I have seen a theory bandied around that one of the reasons Hillary did relatively poorly among women in Iowa (trailing Obama) is that many women attended the caucuses with their husbands/significant others. The caucuses require a public show of support and some of those women may have been unwilling, for whatever reason, to go against their Obama/Edwards hubby publicly and stand in Hillary's corner.

In New Hampshire, which was a secret ballot primary, that wouldn't be a consideration.

Not sure how much weight to place on a theory like this.

In 1992, I voted for Bush, Sr. and Jeff vote for Clinton. In 1996, I voted for Bob Dole and Jeff voted for Clinton.

We teased each other about cancelling each other's votes, but supporting different people wasn't an issue.

Bob Juch · #29 Post by **Bob Juch** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:43 pm

minimetoo26 wrote:One of the most racist people I have ever encountered wanted to move to New Hampshire due to the high concentration of whites there. If you had Obama winning NH, you were hosed.

Not as high as Maine.

mrkelley23 · #30 Post by **mrkelley23** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:18 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
minimetoo26 wrote:One of the most racist people I have ever encountered wanted to move to New Hampshire due to the high concentration of whites there. If you had Obama winning NH, you were hosed.
Not as high as Maine.

So Iowa is apparently a hotbed of racial diversity now?

Compared to New Hampshire and Maine, mebbe it is, I dunno.

Not been my experience, however.

And once again, maybe it's a Midwestern vs. coastal thing, but there are many, many women here who can't stand Hillary. It has nothing to do with their husbands or significant others, either. They don't like her, and are not shy about telling anyone who will listen how they feel and why they feel that way.

PlacentiaSoccerMom · #31 Post by **PlacentiaSoccerMom** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:21 pm

mrkelley23 wrote: And once again, maybe it's a Midwestern vs. coastal thing, but there are many, many women here who can't stand Hillary. It has nothing to do with their husbands or significant others, either. They don't like her, and are not shy about telling anyone who will listen how they feel and why they feel that way.

My mom feels that way. She is vehement in her dislike of Hillary.

Sir_Galahad · #32 Post by **Sir_Galahad** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:46 pm

Appa23 wrote:
I find it hard to believe that very many people were tricked by Hillary's crocodile tears.

Me too. But, obviously, many were.

The question was very incongruent with Hillary suddenly tearing up and showing "a softer side".

Don't be fooled. I am one that completely believes the right-wing belief that everything the Clintons do is managed, planned, calculated and/or choreographed. All she had to do is find a question she could choke up to. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that she knew the questions beforehand and planned the one she was going to react to like that. I believe she is a completely disingenuous person and, personally, if she were the only candidate on a ballot I would vote for "other." IMO, she and Bill have one objective ONLY and will stop at nothing to get there.

silverscreenselect · #33 Post by **silverscreenselect** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:09 pm

Sir_Galahad wrote: Don't be fooled. I am one that completely believes the right-wing belief that everything the Clintons do is managed, planned, calculated and/or choreographed. All she had to do is find a question she could choke up to. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that she knew the questions beforehand and planned the one she was going to react to like that. I believe she is a completely disingenuous person and, personally, if she were the only candidate on a ballot I would vote for "other." IMO, she and Bill have one objective ONLY and will stop at nothing to get there.

One of the biggest weapons that Hillary has at her disposal is the tendency of her enemies to work themselves into a tizzy and make complete blithering idiots of themselves in trying to trash her. Listen to Chris Matthews some time.

You may be right. However, a substantial number of people, especially women, don't think so and she wins votes every time one of her political or media opponents flies off the handle.

Today, Obama's spokesman Jesse Jackson, Jr. is on TV questioning about whether those tears were real, and if so, why she didn't cry about Hurricane Katrina victims (which raises the question as to what Obama did for those victims).

If Obama and the media want to keep bringing up the "issue" of Hillary's sensitivity instead of real issues then the public will continue voting for her. The public showed just how ticked off they were last night about people dumping on Hillary. I doubt they want her opponents to keep bringing up the subject today.

ne1410s · #34 Post by **ne1410s** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:18 pm

Listen to Chris Matthews some time.

Or read Maureen Dowd today. Yikes!!!

"The people from Hope are campaigning against hope."

Sir_Galahad · #35 Post by **Sir_Galahad** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:29 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
One of the biggest weapons that Hillary has at her disposal is the tendency of her enemies to work themselves into a tizzy and make complete blithering idiots of themselves in trying to trash her. Listen to Chris Matthews some time.

I do and absolutely agree. But the media is what it is. They will change their bias, story and support at the drop of a hat. It really is funny to watch them, sometimes. If a candidate they have been "supporting" suddenly says something "wrong" or isn't getting the support of the public, you can bet your boots they will turn on them. Look at what they did to McCain. Not too long ago it was all they could do to "push" him along. When he wasn't getting the support of the public they turned on him. Now, he is a media darling again. So, I pretty much discount anything the mainstream media says about any of the candidates. I try only to glean whatever facts they let out and disregard the spin.

Appa23 · #36 Post by **Appa23** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:46 pm

Sir_Galahad wrote:
Appa23 wrote:
I find it hard to believe that very many people were tricked by Hillary's crocodile tears.
Me too. But, obviously, many were.

The question was very incongruent with Hillary suddenly tearing up and showing "a softer side".
Don't be fooled. I am one that completely believes the right-wing belief that everything the Clintons do is managed, planned, calculated and/or choreographed. All she had to do is find a question she could choke up to. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that she knew the questions beforehand and planned the one she was going to react to like that.

Sure. But is this really the question to plan the waterworks show around?

"How did you get out the door every day? I mean, as a woman, I know how hard it is to get out of the house and get ready. Who does your hair?"

(This is how I saw the question reported on the Internet. Video clips on YouTube only start with Hillary answering some make-believe question -- the ol' trick of taking any question and changing it into a question that you want to answer. Kind of like if you asked Al Gore, "Did you see that Titans-Chargers game?", he'd comment about the gametime temperature and then launch into a diatribe about global warming.

)