suicide prevention class

[earendel]

This afternoon our office will journey down to a utilitarian room in the basement of our building for the purpose of a 3-hour suicide prevention class. You may have heard through the media that the Army has experienced a increasing number of suicides in the past couple years, so its response is to have a "stand down" and talk about the problem. Of course the problem is with combat soldiers returning from tours overseas, not with bureaucrats like us (although spending all one's working hours in a cubicle, staring at a computer screen could provoke suicidal thoughts, I suppose). But we are "Army employees" and so we get to do the stand down also.

[Bob Juch]

I'm glad they're doing something about that, even though they're overreaching to you.

That's better than the job I had in 2002/3 where I was trying to get the owner to commit suicide.

[SportsFan68]

This afternoon our office will journey down to a utilitarian room in the basement of our building for the purpose of a 3-hour suicide prevention class. You may have heard through the media that the Army has experienced a increasing number of suicides in the past couple years, so its response is to have a "stand down" and talk about the problem. Of course the problem is with combat soldiers returning from tours overseas, not with bureaucrats like us (although spending all one's working hours in a cubicle, staring at a computer screen could provoke suicidal thoughts, I suppose). But we are "Army employees" and so we get to do the stand down also.

Apparently rates are approaching those of the Vietnam era, and according to a quick google, the Vietnam rate is also on the rise as those veterans get older and experience added health problems. So I think that the training can only be a good thing -- someone who may not be at risk may help save the life of someone else.

[earendel]

The class is over and it wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. We had to view an interactive DVD. We were shown a scenario about two men, one of whom was contemplating suicide. We watched, then chose from a list of options as to what to do next (sort of like those old "choose your own adventure" books). The choice we made dictated which video clip we saw next; our goal was to make it to the end without the suicide - if we failed we had to start again and make different choices. We were good - we managed to prevent the suicide the first time through.

[SportsFan68]

The class is over and it wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. We had to view an interactive DVD. We were shown a scenario about two men, one of whom was contemplating suicide. We watched, then chose from a list of options as to what to do next (sort of like those old "choose your own adventure" books). The choice we made dictated which video clip we saw next; our goal was to make it to the end without the suicide - if we failed we had to start again and make different choices. We were good - we managed to prevent the suicide the first time through.

Well done!

[earendel]

The class is over and it wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. We had to view an interactive DVD. We were shown a scenario about two men, one of whom was contemplating suicide. We watched, then chose from a list of options as to what to do next (sort of like those old "choose your own adventure" books). The choice we made dictated which video clip we saw next; our goal was to make it to the end without the suicide - if we failed we had to start again and make different choices. We were good - we managed to prevent the suicide the first time through.

Well done!

In fairness the choices were not that difficult to make. As an example, there was one spot at which the choices were:

"Try to talk to your buddy to get more information."

"Say nothing - he's a man and he can deal with it himself."

Those are typical government-type questions - you'd have to be a moron not to figure out the right answer. By the same token, the intro to the DVD, addressed more toward soldiers than civilians, talked about the "macho culture" of the military leading to people ignoring warning signs in others, so maybe the choices wouldn't be as obvious to those for whom the DVD was primarily intended.

[Vague Mini]

This is a class I hope everyone passes....

[littlebeast13]

This is a class I hope everyone passes....

Well, you either pass it or you're left hanging around until the next class.....

lb13

[earendel]

This is a class I hope everyone passes....

Well, you either pass it or you're left hanging around until the next class.....

lb13

There's no failing the class - if you fail to prevent the suicide you have to go through another scenario. If you fail that one, you go back to the first one and keep going until you make it through one of the scenarios successfully.

[MarleysGh0st]

This is a class I hope everyone passes....

Well, you either pass it or you're left hanging around until the next class.....

lb13

There's no failing the class - if you fail to prevent the suicide you have to go through another scenario. If you fail that one, you go back to the first one and keep going until you make it through one of the scenarios successfully.

It's so wrong to be making jokes about this subject, but...

Spoiler

What the record for body count before passing?

[earendel]

Well, you either pass it or you're left hanging around until the next class.....

lb13

There's no failing the class - if you fail to prevent the suicide you have to go through another scenario. If you fail that one, you go back to the first one and keep going until you make it through one of the scenarios successfully.

It's so wrong to be making jokes about this subject, but...

Spoiler

What the record for body count before passing?

No idea. I don't know if there's any way to know - we took the class in a group setting and all we had to do was to e-mail someone that we had passed. No extraneous commentary required.

[MarleysGh0st]

I wasn't really expecting an answer to the morbid joke, ear.

[earendel]

I wasn't really expecting an answer to the morbid joke, ear.

Just trying to artificially inflate my post count.

[christie1111]

I wasn't really expecting an answer to the morbid joke, ear.

Just trying to artificially inflate my post count.

Great!

Can I help?

[earendel]

I wasn't really expecting an answer to the morbid joke, ear.

Just trying to artificially inflate my post count.

Great!

Can I help?

Sure.

[christie1111]

Just trying to artificially inflate my post count.

Great!

Can I help?

Sure.

Thanks!

[earendel]

Great!

Can I help?

Sure.

Thanks!

You're welcome.

[ulysses5019]

Sure.

Thanks!

You're welcome.

No. You're welcome.

[kusch]

I think I may have told this story before. Ear's post brought it front and center again.

About 15 years ago I had a customer (we had an SBA guaranteed loan--fairly small one) whose business was failing. He was a cooperative borrower. One day at a meeting in my office he did not actually say "I will kill myself" but he was using words that I knew what he was thinking and saying. I got up from my desk, closed the door, went to the other chair next to him and said "This is not the banker talking, this is me. What can I do to help you? I will call anyone you want. Loans go bad all the time. This is no longer about the loan. You are a great person with a loving wife and three young sons, you will be able to find work after this business closes. When the business is sold you will be left with very little debt and the bank will suffer only a small loss because of the SBA guarantee". He said thanks and left. Right after he left I called the suicide prevention line, itendified myself and relayed what happened. I asked if I should do anything else. I was told no.

Over the course of the next couple of weeks with the borrower still cooperating, we were starting the process of selling off the inventory and equipment. It was about 6 weeks from my initial conversation that this borrower did in fact kill himself in the back of one of two buildings used in the business. I do not beat myself up over this, but when I hear the word "suicide" I will usually ask myself if there was more I could have done.

[SportsFan68]

The class is over and it wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. We had to view an interactive DVD. We were shown a scenario about two men, one of whom was contemplating suicide. We watched, then chose from a list of options as to what to do next (sort of like those old "choose your own adventure" books). The choice we made dictated which video clip we saw next; our goal was to make it to the end without the suicide - if we failed we had to start again and make different choices. We were good - we managed to prevent the suicide the first time through.

Well done!

In fairness the choices were not that difficult to make. As an example, there was one spot at which the choices were:

"Try to talk to your buddy to get more information."

"Say nothing - he's a man and he can deal with it himself."

Those are typical government-type questions - you'd have to be a moron not to figure out the right answer. By the same token, the intro to the DVD, addressed more toward soldiers than civilians, talked about the "macho culture" of the military leading to people ignoring warning signs in others, so maybe the choices wouldn't be as obvious to those for whom the DVD was primarily intended.

They don't seem that difficult to you, but to many people, the second answer is correct. If this class changes it so that the first answer is Option A for everybody in the class, we're way ahead.

As Kusch relates, Option A is far from failsafe. For most of us, it's the best we can do. And it may be all that's needed to save a life.

[Bob Juch]

I think I may have told this story before. Ear's post brought it front and center again.

About 15 years ago I had a customer (we had an SBA guaranteed loan--fairly small one) whose business was failing. He was a cooperative borrower. One day at a meeting in my office he did not actually say "I will kill myself" but he was using words that I knew what he was thinking and saying. I got up from my desk, closed the door, went to the other chair next to him and said "This is not the banker talking, this is me. What can I do to help you? I will call anyone you want. Loans go bad all the time. This is no longer about the loan. You are a great person with a loving wife and three young sons, you will be able to find work after this business closes. When the business is sold you will be left with very little debt and the bank will suffer only a small loss because of the SBA guarantee". He said thanks and left. Right after he left I called the suicide prevention line, itendified myself and relayed what happened. I asked if I should do anything else. I was told no.

Over the course of the next couple of weeks with the borrower still cooperating, we were starting the process of selling off the inventory and equipment. It was about 6 weeks from my initial conversation that this borrower did in fact kill himself in the back of one of two buildings used in the business. I do not beat myself up over this, but when I hear the word "suicide" I will usually ask myself if there was more I could have done.

Remember I used to run a crisis intervention center in the '70s. Suicide prevention was a good part of our business.

The one thing you evidently did not do was to actually mention the word "suicide". I've found that the average person is afraid to do that. With a person who is seriously contemplating suicide, you have to directly confront that and tell the person why that is not a good option.