Poor Officiating?

[Appa23]

Interesting call in the world of Nebraska high school girls basketball.

One district final in a lower class pitted Franklin against Thedford-Sandhills. The latter was undefeated, whie the former had a sub-.500 record but had been winning games at the end of the season.

Franklin hits a three to go up by two points with 7 seconds to play.

After a time-out, Thedford rushes down the court and misses a long three, with the ball going out of bounds.

Franklin's fans and bench players storm onto the court.



Unfortunately, the clock still showed 0.1 seconds left in the game.

After the court clears, the officials huddle up and call a technical foul on Franklin (for delay of game / too many players on the court).

Thedford's player hits the two free throws, and then Thedford wins by 3 in overtime, and now will be playing at the state tournamnet this week.

Interestingly, Thedford's coach was very adament about defending the officials' "correct call" in newspaper stories that I saw. I wonder if he actually was calling for the officials to give the T at the time.

I also wonder if I would have done what i think that I would have done if I was the coach or player for Thedford. The siren's call to make the state tournament can be pretty sweet.

I believe that someone here had posted the story about the ame where a player's mother had died that day, and the player had decided to show up to the game in progress. Since he was not listed in the official scorebook, his team was assesses a technical. The opposing coach essentially asked for a volunteer to purposely miss.

In this situation, there was no way that Thedford could win the game. The game was over. There just happened to be o.1 seconds left. Thedford only could win on a miracle tip shot (no catch and shoot), but Franklin would be inbounding. The horns would have sounded as soon as someone touched the ball.

I have never seen this call in a basketball game, though Thedford's coach apparently has. However, I have seen players and fans come onto football fields while the clock still is counting down.

Boy, I wish that these officials had been calling the 1994 Orange Bowl.


(On the other hand, I hope that the game's outcome does not ruin the state experience for the Thedford-Sandhills players. They know that everyone else will be cheering against "the team that did not really deserve to be there." If they keep on winning, then they will show some impressive inner strength.)

[AlphaDummy]

Ouch.

Tough situation, no matter what.

IMO, the refs have to call the rules as they are written - especially in a situation such as this, with a trip to state on the line. To be sure, the T-S players will have to deal with fans rooting against them. The back side of that, though, is that if the zebras do not make the call then Franklin would carry the stigma of a tainted win. It was very much a no-win situation for everybody involved.

I also wonder if I would have done what i think that I would have done if I was the coach or player for Thedford. The siren's call to make the state tournament can be pretty sweet.

Agreed. And it was one thing to do "the right thing" in a game with - AFAIK - no implications beyond that evening. Quite another to be called on to do so in this situation. Beyond the pressure on the coach, think of what the kid would go through if he were to intentionally tank the shots. It is very easy for me (or for anybody else) to sit here and say I would do what was right. I cannot honestly tell you how a kid in high school might react to this situation...the peer pressure in that situation would have to be incredible.

If there is a lesson here, it is that impulsive acts can have unplanned consequences. This time, it was a game. Hopefully, this lesson - and how it might someday apply on a far more serious scale - will not be lost on anybody involved.

[andrewjackson]

I think the referees should have cleared the court and given Franklin the ball to in-bound.

No real need to call the technical foul. There are lots of situations where the officials can call technical fouls but don't.

Franklin in-bounds the ball, the clock ticks off as soon as someone touches the ball, and then game ends. No taint for anyone.

Once the officials did call the technical, the T-S player did the right thing, IMO, in trying to make the shots to tie the game. I don't think in this situation the players should be making moral judgments on who should or should not win the game based on an official's call.

I would hope that people who are frustrated by the outcome of the game take it out on the officials, not on T-S players. The officials made a legal, if questionable, call and T-S won the game. There should be no malice toward T-S.

[etaoin22]

Ah, and what would have happened if Chambliss had been unable to reach home plate......

I am trying to think of an analogy in hockey, and I can think of one,. It takes a minimum of over a second to get a shot on net from a faceoff, I think one can agree, so at 19:59 down by a goal, even with the usual extra forward on the ice, and the faceoff in the opponents end, the game is over.

In my hypothesis a player wotj a clear shot on net with between one and two seconds to go is hauled down , with the whistle blowing at 19:59. A clear penalty, but one which would never be called as a penalty shot at any other time during the game. It probably should be a penalty shot, but I can't remember it ever happening.

I will edit this to say I have found one example by Google, that of an exhibition game in 2000 in which deliberately knocking the goal of its moorings was called as a penalty shot at 19:59.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/09/ ... 00918.html

This seems to be about the same time you guys (16 months before my arrival) were racing to post 100000.

http://millifeline.homestead.com/top100.html

Shows up on Googling WWTBAM Sept 2000.

[Appa23]

As a Royals fan, I still do not think that Chambliss touched.

I pointed out the 1994 Orange Bowl (which featured one of the worst officiating performances by a crew in a national championship game that I can recall. But, I am biased.)

Anyway, if you do not recall the game, Nebraska is down 18-16 to Florida State, and it has the ball with a few seconds left, around midfield. Nebraska lets the officials know that the receiver will be hitting the turf, untouched, prior to the clock running out, knowing that a first down stops the clock.

Tommy Frazier hits a crossing tight end, who goes down (possibly tackled, I do not recall) around the 30 with one second left. However, the FSU players and fans have stormed onto the field, thinking that they had just won. It probably takes a minute to clear the field. Technically, FSU should have been flagged with a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty (or 5 yard delay of game, at a minimum), giving Nebraska an easier field goal to win. The officials declined to call the penalty.

In the case of this basketball game, it only could happen at the high school level, in my opinion. If there had been an opportunity to watch a replay, I am sure that the officials would have ruled that the ball did not touch out of bounds until time had expired.

I am sure that Cal remembers better, but I recall a women's game in the NCAA tournament where Tennessee beat Baylor because of a foul called on a rebound with 0.1 seconds remaining. I vehemently disagreed with that call as well.

[TheCalvinator24]

As a Royals fan, I still do not think that Chambliss touched.

I pointed out the 1994 Orange Bowl (which featured one of the worst officiating performances by a crew in a national championship game that I can recall. But, I am biased.)

Anyway, if you do not recall the game, Nebraska is down 18-16 to Florida State, and it has the ball with a few seconds left, around midfield. Nebraska lets the officials know that the receiver will be hitting the turf, untouched, prior to the clock running out, knowing that a first down stops the clock.

Tommy Frazier hits a crossing tight end, who goes down (possibly tackled, I do not recall) around the 30 with one second left. However, the FSU players and fans have stormed onto the field, thinking that they had just won. It probably takes a minute to clear the field. Technically, FSU should have been flagged with a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty (or 5 yard delay of game, at a minimum), giving Nebraska an easier field goal to win. The officials declined to call the penalty.

In the case of this basketball game, it only could happen at the high school level, in my opinion. If there had been an opportunity to watch a replay, I am sure that the officials would have ruled that the ball did not touch out of bounds until time had expired.

I am sure that Cal remembers better, but I recall a women's game in the NCAA tournament where Tennessee beat Baylor because of a foul called on a rebound with 0.1 seconds remaining. I vehemently disagreed with that call as well.

I seem to remember calling BS on the call. Partly because of the time remaining and partly because it was on a loose ball with 2 players both going for it. It wasn't a rebound near the basket. It was a call that should not have been made regardless of how much time is left.

[mrkelley23]

I can't speak to this state's rules, but if they follow NFHS rules, as Indiana does, I don't think it's the correct call. Even though it may have been obvious which team's fans charged the court, it would be difficult to prove. Who is to say it wasn't the losing team's fans on the court, upset at their loss? In a playdown like this, there is a home team designated on the scoreboard, but not a true home team, with hosting duties and such.

I hope I would do as AJ suggested. After all, if they had time to clear the court and award technical free throws, they had time to clear the court and give them the ball on a throw-in.

I also would like to talk to the officials involved, however. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot more to the story than what was reported.

[andrewjackson]

I can't speak to this state's rules, but if they follow NFHS rules, as Indiana does, I don't think it's the correct call. Even though it may have been obvious which team's fans charged the court, it would be difficult to prove. Who is to say it wasn't the losing team's fans on the court, upset at their loss? In a playdown like this, there is a home team designated on the scoreboard, but not a true home team, with hosting duties and such.

I hope I would do as AJ suggested. After all, if they had time to clear the court and award technical free throws, they had time to clear the court and give them the ball on a throw-in.

I also would like to talk to the officials involved, however. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot more to the story than what was reported.

Good luck to your school on Tuesday night. I mean lots and lots and lots of luck. I can't actually say the name in a sentence where I say I want them to win but I really, really, really want them to to win.

If there was some way that Michigan State could lose without you-know-who winning, that would be my vote but I can't figure out how to make that happen.

[mrkelley23]

I can't speak to this state's rules, but if they follow NFHS rules, as Indiana does, I don't think it's the correct call. Even though it may have been obvious which team's fans charged the court, it would be difficult to prove. Who is to say it wasn't the losing team's fans on the court, upset at their loss? In a playdown like this, there is a home team designated on the scoreboard, but not a true home team, with hosting duties and such.

I hope I would do as AJ suggested. After all, if they had time to clear the court and award technical free throws, they had time to clear the court and give them the ball on a throw-in.

I also would like to talk to the officials involved, however. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot more to the story than what was reported.

Good luck to your school on Tuesday night. I mean lots and lots and lots of luck. I can't actually say the name in a sentence where I say I want them to win but I really, really, really want them to to win.

If there was some way that Michigan State could lose without you-know-who winning, that would be my vote but I can't figure out how to make that happen.

We'll need more than good luck, even from a dead president. Maybe we can just have Devan Dumes give another elbow or two in a strategic location.

OK, bad joke there, but I was really glad to see Crean go in a most un-Sampsonlike direction with that situation.

When you're as undertalented as we are this year, you need everything to go your way. The other team has to have an off-shooting night, you need to get just about every close call, and your team has to be on. And you have to believe you can win. Haven't seen much of that this year.

But like President Obama, Coach Crean is dealing with the inevitable fallout of one of the worst decision-makers in decades to hold the office. And if I had any doubts about Sampson's innocence, the current issue of Sporting News erased them. That self-pitying, self-serving interview made me nauseated. And using his wife to defend him was particularly low. How the HEdouble hockey sticks would she know anything about recruiting violations?

And, FWIW, it's awful hard to hate Purdue these days. Coach Painter appears to do things the right way, also. And while I'm sure they enjoyed the heck out of beating us twice, they acted like they'd been there before.

Which they have, of course.

[Appa23]

Sandhills-Thedford was blown out by Elkhorn Valley, 62-38.

However, not the worst loss of the first day of the state tournament. Chambers spanked Spalding 79-37.

(BDM -- get your mind out of the gutter.)