Desperately seeking converter box, etc. advice

[Winnamill]

Once again I'm turning to the smartest people I know to help end my techno idiocy.

I've been working on resolving my analog to digital conversion problem. I may decide just to purchase a new digital TV and VCR/DVD player and/or get cable (yikes, another step into the 21st century!), but before giving in to one or both of those choices, here is my dilemma.

- My current TV is 22 years old and came from Monkey Wards. It actually has to be "turned" on so apparently won't work with a converter box.
- My indoor power antenna is about 10 years old and came from Radio Shack. Not sure if this is incompatible with digital, but Best Buy said I would probably need to upgrade.
- So I did to a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna (in an apt. so outdoor is not an option).
- A friend gave me a Mitsubishi TV that is about 10-12 years old.
- I have an Apex converter box from Best Buy.
- I have a RCA (? - another freebie) VCR that is probably about five years old.

This is what I have done:

- The "new" TV is hooked up to the VCR, which is hooked into the converter box, which is hooked into the antenna.
- The converter box does not appear to work with it as it only makes the picture worse, and has never given me the set-up screen it is supposed upon first starting.
- The new power antenna did not make any difference in reception that I can tell.
- And here is the biggie -- the TV won't hold the picture and is almost constantly doing a rapid scroll. Some channels seem to hold the picture a bit better but I don't think any hold permanently. Also, it appears to be worse when first turned on and then settles down a bit after "warming up".

My question, besides any suggestions for errors I may have made in the set-up, is: Does the scrolling mean there is something wrong with the TV/verical hold? My ancient TV has never scrolled so I'm beginning to figure the "new" TV is not working right. According to the person who gave it to me, it was working fine and was just upgraded, but it did spend some time in the back of his SUV so perhaps it was jostled too much. I'm trying to resolve the answer to this question before doing much of anything else as I live in a third floor apt. and this sucker was HEAVY to get up the stairs. If it is unworkable, it needs to go back down the stairs, but I want to be sure first.

Thanks very much for any advice/suggestions anyone has.

[Grandpa Beast]

- My current TV is 22 years old and came from Monkey Wards. It actually has to be "turned" on so apparently won't work with a converter box.

Does your radio still work too?

[gsabc]

Indoor antennas are a crapshoot on how well they work. Some that get bad reviews will work well for other people. A major case of YMMV. You may have to try more than one to find the best for your situation and location. If that's not an option, try moving it and the television nearer to a window. And despite what they tell you, you don't need an "HD" antenna. You do need the strongest one you can find, though. Make sure it's compatible with both UHF and VHF stations.

Go to antennaweb.org and enter your address into their finder. It will list the local stations, how far it is to their broadcast antennae and in what direction. One issue we've found is that the signals are very directional, and very finicky. It may give you some idea of which antenna to get, although they mainly focus on outdoor versions.

The main drawback to our converter box and to digital airwave broadcasts in general is that if the signal is "weak", you don't get just a snowy or blurry picture, you get NONE! We're right on the hairy edge with some stations, so the pickup on them is fine on good days and horrible on others. Fortunately that TV is our kitchen set. It's still a PITA, and doesn't bode well if we get a small digital TV to replace it. No way I'm paying for a third cable hookup for the kitchen!

I would try to swap the converter box if you're not getting the setup screen. OTOH you may not be seeing it b/c of the scrolling. Our signal problems just result in pixellation or a blank screen. If you can't fix the vertical roll with one of the knobs on the TV, bribe someone with a six-pack or chocolate chip cookies to get them to take it back downstairs for you.

Good luck!

[andrewjackson]

First, I would try to figure out the problem with the Mitsubishi TV. Have you tried hooking up the antenna to it without the converter box? Can you get a picture that way?

I'm guessing you currently get a picture on your Montgomery Ward tv with the amplified antenna. Try putting the converter in the line between the amplified antenna and the TV and see if the converter works that way. You say that the converter won't work because the Montgomery Ward TV has to be turned on. I don't know why that would interfere with converter box.

My basic advice on electronics is that if you have problems simplify things. Remove as many devices from the chain as possible to narrow down what exactly is causing the problems.


I'm not sure about this line "- The converter box does not appear to work with it as it only makes the picture worse, and has never given me the set-up screen it is supposed upon first starting." What picture did it make worse? The regular analog channels. You need to have the converter box scan for available channels before it will show the digital channels.

That rolling issue with the Mitsubishi could be because of signal interference. Or it could be that something was damaged in transit. Or it just got old. I would work on your signal first and then blame the TV if that doesn't help.

[ghostjmf]

My coverter box setup works the way its supposed to, & the TV its hooked up to is 22 years old.

Since there still are analog signals being broadcast (well, Fox around here stopped broadcasting analog months ago, but no-one else has stopped yet), please try out both TVs with the old setup on analog signals. To prove that both TVs work. It may be that your newer TV just doesn't work, period.

There's nothing about "my TV is so old I have to turn it on" (whatever you meant by that!; mine is no-remote; is that what you meant?) that means it won't take a signal from a converter box. The converter box comes between your set & the antenna, & that's all. If your TV will take a signal from an antenna directly, it should take a signal from a converter box.

One real big problem with having a the VCR in the chain here is that you want to keep the VCR off when letting the converter box do its setup thingie.


And if you ever want to record anything via the VCR, you must have the VCR set to receiving signals from channel 3 or 4 (whichever is the "no stations on it" channel in your area) if you connected via a "one plug" cable, or set to whichever one of the "line in" connections you used if you connected via a 3-plug (RCA type) cable. And, of course, your TV should likewise be set to receive its signal on either 3 or 4, or from the "line in" jack you chose.

(You will also have to from now on make sure the converter box is on & set to the channel you want to record from before you set the VCR to record from channel 3 or 4, or "line in". Which is why I bought one of the only 2 coverter boxes on the market (DTVPal plus, Zinwell latest model) which have timers you can set on the converter box to change channels when you're out, so the VCR can record from more than one station.)

You can get really screwy things to happen if you try to run the VCR's analog tuner & the converter box's "digital to analog" feed at the same time. That may be what is happening to you.

I'd recommend taking the VCR out of the loop for now & trying the setup again without it.

If you still get nada, you have either gotten a bad converter box (can happen) or, as gsabc suggests from his own sad experience, you are in an area where the digital signals are weak, regardless of how good your antenna is.

The converter box should be able to run itself through the setup sequence, though. No wavy lines. If can't find any stations, it should report to you (via on-screen message) that it can't find any stations.

[Winnamill]

Thanks, everybody, who sent along info. I haven't had time to completely deal with the entire conversion, but at least I now know that the VCR MUST BE TURNED OFF in order for it to work! At the very least that allowed me to determine that the box will work with my elderly TV. And it was determined that the "new" old TV was probably damaged someway in the transportation as the scrolling never did stop. So I'm back to my original set-up for now with the hope that it might work for the most part. At least I now have until June 11 before getting in gear again to see if more needs to be done.

[ghostjmf]

Now that you have determined that converter/TV pairing does work, you can put the VCR back in line, just as you originally described having it. TURNED OFF! As such, its "part of the antenna". So the signals still go through OK. You have to always keep the converter box plugged in, for the same "part of antenna" reason. To complete the circuit.

So, how to use VCR?

Have the converter box turned off (but plugged in!). Its not sending anything.

Turn on VCR.

Program stuff to come in on "dead channel 3". Or "line 1" if you've got RCA 3-plug connectors used. Program just like you used to, except instead of giving a live TV station tuner channel #, you give this "accepting a signal from the converter box" # as the channel you're tuning in.

Turn off VCR. Don't worry, it will turn itself back on at programmed time.

Turn on converter box.
Make sure that you have removed any "preprogrammed setting" that turns converter box off after its idle some # of hours.
Turn volume control on converter box up to max volume.

Whatever you are tuned to, via converter box, will be the channel VCR will record at the time it comes on.

You won't be able to check "is it really recording", because anything you do to send "what its recording as its recording it" to your TV will in fact screw up the recording. I found this one out "the hard way".

But the recording will happen.

I also found out "the hard way" that you need to have your volume setting from converter box on maximum setting to get an audible volume on VCR recording.

When watching straight from the converter box, not a VCR recording, you probably won't need that converter box volume at max.
Leave it at max, & control volume some other way, such as via the TV's own volume control.

[Bob Juch]

Now that you have determined that converter/TV pairing does work, you can put the VCR back in line, just as you originally described having it. TURNED OFF! As such, its "part of the antenna". So the signals still go through OK. You have to always keep the converter box plugged in, for the same "part of antenna" reason. To complete the circuit.

So, how to use VCR?

Have the converter box turned off (but plugged in!). Its not sending anything.

Turn on VCR.

Program stuff to come in on "dead channel 3". Or "line 1" if you've got RCA 3-plug connectors used. Program just like you used to, except instead of giving a live TV station tuner channel #, you give this "accepting a signal from the converter box" # as the channel you're tuning in.

Turn off VCR. Don't worry, it will turn itself back on at programmed time.

Turn on converter box.
Make sure that you have removed any "preprogrammed setting" that turns converter box off after its idle some # of hours.
Turn volume control on converter box up to max volume.

Whatever you are tuned to, via converter box, will be the channel VCR will record at the time it comes on.

You won't be able to check "is it really recording", because anything you do to send "what its recording as its recording it" to your TV will in fact screw up the recording. I found this one out "the hard way".

But the recording will happen.

I also found out "the hard way" that you need to have your volume setting from converter box on maximum setting to get an audible volume on VCR recording.

When watching straight from the converter box, not a VCR recording, you probably won't need that converter box volume at max.
Leave it at max, & control volume some other way, such as via the TV's own volume control.

I'm glad to see you've become an expert on this subject.