Hue and Cry

[MarleysGh0st]

Since Flybrick wants to see some discussion about current events on the Bored, let me suggest the topic of Bernard Madoff. He's been accused of violating his parole this week and prosecutors want him back in custody. His lawyer claims that mailing out packages of jewelry worth more than $1 million to various friends and relatives wasn't an intentional violation of the terms of his bail.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/busin ... adoff.html

The laws covering bail seem mostly concerned with violent criminals and the physical threat they might pose to society. A white collar crime of this magnitude just seems incomprehensible. Financial columnist Scott Burns had an interesting comparision, though:

http://assetbuilder.com/blogs/scott_bur ... adoff.aspx

The loss is mind-boggling. But the figure does nothing to convey the damage this man has done.

One way to measure the extent of the damage is to compare the $50 billion to measures of loss in the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports. In 2007 there were 9.8 million crimes against property in the United States. This included about 2.2 million burglaries, 6.6 million larceny-thefts and 1.1 million car thefts.

I think you'll agree that 9.8 million crimes represent a veritable army of miscreants. In spite of that, our total losses to property crimes in 2007 were a mere $17.6 billion. To be sure, it didn't feel "mere" if you suffered a burglary. The average loss was $1,991. Nor was it "mere" if you were one of the 6.6 million people who suffered a larceny-theft. In those, the average loss was $886.

But when you add all the losses in 9.8 million common property crimes, it's just a fraction of the estimated $50 billion loss attributed to Bernard Madoff.

[silverscreenselect]

I was robbed at gunpoint. I lost $60, a handful of credit cards, and suffered a few minutes of extreme anxiety followed by a couple of days of hassle in cancelling the credit cards. I'm sure the guys who robbed me probably robbed others as well, but they probably suffered losses similar to what I did (these guys weren't John Dillinger or Jesse James).

What I lost pales in comparison to what many of Madoff's victims lost, yet the guys who robbed me will undoubtedly get a heavier sentence than what Madoff will get. In addition, he is essentially thumbing his nose at the court and the entire legal system. If it were up to me, not only would he be in jail, he'd be in with the general population on Riker's Island until he came to trial... if he came to trial.

[clem21]

If it were up to me, not only would he be in jail, he'd be in with the general population on Riker's Island until he came to trial... if he came to trial.

And that is why he's on my Ghoul Pool roster.

[ToLiveIsToFly]

Two things:

You meant to say he violated his bail agreement, right? Not his parole? Or is he on parole for something else? Shows you what I know.

And I always thought that one of the main purposes of bail was to make sure that the defendant would show up for his day in court and not skip out. Seems like it'd need to be a shitpile for this guy.

[Estonut]

Two things:

You meant to say he violated his bail agreement, right? Not his parole? Or is he on parole for something else? Shows you what I know.

And I always thought that one of the main purposes of bail was to make sure that the defendant would show up for his day in court and not skip out. Seems like it'd need to be a shitpile for this guy.

Yes, it was his bail agreement. Apparently, he didn't understand that sending millions of dollars worth of jewelry to friends and relatives would constitute liquidation of his assets.

I understand he's had a very difficult house arrest, being watched over by guards paid for by his wife. Sheesh!

[MarleysGh0st]

Two things:

You meant to say he violated his bail agreement, right? Not his parole? Or is he on parole for something else? Shows you what I know.

And I always thought that one of the main purposes of bail was to make sure that the defendant would show up for his day in court and not skip out. Seems like it'd need to be a shitpile for this guy.

Yes, it was his bail agreement. Apparently, he didn't understand that sending millions of dollars worth of jewelry to friends and relatives would constitute liquidation of his assets.

I understand he's had a very difficult house arrest, being watched over by guards paid for by his wife. Sheesh!

Mea culpa. Bail, not parole.

And I'm sure it was an innocent mistake, what with it being the holidays and all. You write some Christmas cards, wrap up a few homemade cookies, then throw in a few jewel-encrusted watches, necklaces and cuff links.

You know, just for a sentimental touch!

[DaveSenior72]

You know, you'd think these people would have been a little more suspicious...

His name IS Made-off!!!

[etaoin22]

This was an incredibly dumb thing to do, but his judgment may not be the best now (or ever....). Had his kids kept what no doubt he would have argued were just a few family heirlooms, they would be implicating themselves in his crimes. like the drugs in Henry Hill's freezer (IIRC) which his wife flushed down the drain when he was in stir......

[Bitsy Hasselbeck]

You know, you'd think these people would have been a little more suspicious...

His name IS Made-off!!!

That's what I said! Twice!

Only no one laughed. Twice. I think they all hate me.

[ghostjmf]

SSS says:

I was robbed at gunpoint. I lost $60, a handful of credit cards, and suffered a few minutes of extreme anxiety followed by a couple of days of hassle in cancelling the credit cards. I'm sure the guys who robbed me probably robbed others as well, but they probably suffered losses similar to what I did (these guys weren't John Dillinger or Jesse James).

What I lost pales in comparison to what many of Madoff's victims lost, yet the guys who robbed me will undoubtedly get a heavier sentence than what Madoff will get. In addition, he is essentially thumbing his nose at the court and the entire legal system. If it were up to me, not only would he be in jail, he'd be in with the general population on Riker's Island until he came to trial... if he came to trial.

Yeah, but the guys who robbed you could have killed you with the gun. No-one is in physical danger from Madoff. They've "just" had their life savings stolen. Etc. I think the total of suicides is now up to 3. But those were the victims' own decisions.

There ought to be a law about letting Madoff anywhere near a pencil, or, apparently, the post office, let alone a computer, but I don't suppose there is. Is there?

I basically believe the entire stock/bonds market is one big Ponzi scheme, but that, I guess, is another discussion?

[MarleysGh0st]

I basically believe the entire stock/bonds market is one big Ponzi scheme, but that, I guess, is another discussion?

Ummmm.

Yes, it is.

[earendel]

I basically believe the entire stock/bonds market is one big Ponzi scheme, but that, I guess, is another discussion?

Ummmm.

Yes, it is.

Yes it is what? "One big Ponzi scheme" or "another discussion"?

[Flybrick]

Tulips.

I'm gonna put my money in tulips.



That said, I think the criminal codes have always applied more to violent offenders than what is now known as "white collar" criminals.

Violence has a more corrosive effect on society than financial shenanigans. Without in the least defending or justifying the alleged crime of Madeoff, all his victims volunteered to put their money with him.

SSS' robber didn't ask his permission. SSS, you are a braver man than me. I'd have had to invest in new underwear...

[MarleysGh0st]

I basically believe the entire stock/bonds market is one big Ponzi scheme, but that, I guess, is another discussion?

Ummmm.

Yes, it is.

Yes it is what? "One big Ponzi scheme" or "another discussion"?

Argh!

Yes, it is another discussion.

[MarleysGh0st]

Dang! I was going to reply to your P.S. and you edited it out, Flybrick!

Anyway, I decided to give you the tribute of using the phrase you brought up yesterday, with a subject that I particularly wanted to raise the hue and cry over. So there!

And while I'd be more interested in a hue a cry over the financiers in the whole mortage mess, they don't seem to be falling so clearly into the category of criminal actions.

Even if they oughta be!

[MarleysGh0st]

A judge has ruled that Madoff can remain under house arrest in his $7 million penthouse apartment. They'll be searching his mail, though.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090112/bs_nm/us_madoff_8





Maybe the judge can order all the people that he's ripped off into house arrest with him.

[BigDrawMan]

[quote="Flybrick"]Tulips.

I'm gonna put my money in tulips.



That said, I think the criminal codes have always applied more to violent offenders than what is now known as "white collar" criminals.

that doesnt make sense

Violence has a more corrosive effect on society than financial shenanigans. Without in the least defending or justifying the alleged crime of Madeoff, all his victims volunteered to put their money with him.


financial shenanigans????

his lawyer should use that in court.
"I object to calling what my client did over a 20 year period as "theft","embezzlement","larceny" or "an ongoing criminal enterprise".
He was just engaging in a little shenanigan

That sounds like a 3rd degree misdemeanor

[gotribego26]

I basically believe the entire stock/bonds market is one big Ponzi scheme, but that, I guess, is another discussion?

If you believe this, shouldn't your employer be referred to as to "Big Fruad University" rather than "Rich University"?