President Bush

[danielh41]

This article hit the nail on the head... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122584386627599251.html

The Treatment of Bush Has Been a Disgrace
What must our enemies be thinking?
By JEFFREY SCOTT SHAPIRO

Earlier this year, 12,000 people in San Francisco signed a petition in support of a proposition on a local ballot to rename an Oceanside sewage plant after George W. Bush. The proposition is only one example of the classless disrespect many Americans have shown the president.

According to recent Gallup polls, the president's average approval rating is below 30% -- down from his 90% approval in the wake of 9/11. Mr. Bush has endured relentless attacks from the left while facing abandonment from the right.

This is the price Mr. Bush is paying for trying to work with both Democrats and Republicans. During his 2004 victory speech, the president reached out to voters who supported his opponent, John Kerry, and said, "Today, I want to speak to every person who voted for my opponent. To make this nation stronger and better, I will need your support, and I will work to earn it. I will do all I can do to deserve your trust."

Those bipartisan efforts have been met with crushing resistance from both political parties.

The president's original Supreme Court choice of Harriet Miers alarmed Republicans, while his final nomination of Samuel Alito angered Democrats. His solutions to reform the immigration system alienated traditional conservatives, while his refusal to retreat in Iraq has enraged liberals who have unrealistic expectations about the challenges we face there.

It seems that no matter what Mr. Bush does, he is blamed for everything. He remains despised by the left while continuously disappointing the right.

Yet it should seem obvious that many of our country's current problems either existed long before Mr. Bush ever came to office, or are beyond his control. Perhaps if Americans stopped being so divisive, and congressional leaders came together to work with the president on some of these problems, he would actually have had a fighting chance of solving them.

Like the president said in his 2004 victory speech, "We have one country, one Constitution and one future that binds us. And when we come together and work together, there is no limit to the greatness of America."

To be sure, Mr. Bush is not completely alone. His low approval ratings put him in the good company of former Democratic President Harry S. Truman, whose own approval rating sank to 22% shortly before he left office. Despite Mr. Truman's low numbers, a 2005 Wall Street Journal poll found that he was ranked the seventh most popular president in history.

Just as Americans have gained perspective on how challenging Truman's presidency was in the wake of World War II, our country will recognize the hardship President Bush faced these past eight years -- and how extraordinary it was that he accomplished what he did in the wake of the September 11 attacks.

The treatment President Bush has received from this country is nothing less than a disgrace. The attacks launched against him have been cruel and slanderous, proving to the world what little character and resolve we have. The president is not to blame for all these problems. He never lost faith in America or her people, and has tried his hardest to continue leading our nation during a very difficult time.

Our failure to stand by the one person who continued to stand by us has not gone unnoticed by our enemies. It has shown to the world how disloyal we can be when our president needed loyalty -- a shameful display of arrogance and weakness that will haunt this nation long after Mr. Bush has left the White House.

[Bob Juch]

Bush did the best he could - that's the problem.

[BackInTex]

Bush did not do what those who elected him wanted him to do.

Bush did not do what those who voted for Kerry wanted Kerry to do.

In the end he made no one happy.

[franktangredi]

Are you suggesting that people should show loyalty by supporting the President even when they feel he's done something terribly wrong? Or, at the very least, that they should refrain from sniping at him while he tries to lead the country through difficult times, simply because he is the President?

I have three reactions to that:

1. Can we then expect this same standard of behavior from you through the Obama presidency? Will you show loyalty by refraining from criticizing him?

2. Getting sniped at goes with the job. Every President has faced that, without exception. "If you can't stand the heat...."

3. Seriously, I fully expect you to express your disapproval of any action of President Obama that you don't like. (Though I hope, and believe, that you will give him a chance first.) Because you should!

And here's another view:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

[Jeemie]

Are you suggesting that people should show loyalty by supporting the President even when they feel he's done something terribly wrong? Or, at the very least, that they should refrain from sniping at him while he tries to lead the country through difficult times, simply because he is the President?

I have three reactions to that:

1. Can we then expect this same standard of behavior from you through the Obama presidency? Will you show loyalty by refraining from criticizing him?

2. Getting sniped at goes with the job. Every President has faced that, without exception. "If you can't stand the heat...."

3. Seriously, I fully expect you to express your disapproval of any action of President Obama that you don't like. (Though I hope, and believe, that you will give him a chance first.) Because you should!

And here's another view:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

I think daniel is complaining about the level of vitriol towards Bush, not that he was criticized.

But the level of vitriol is high on both sides of the aisle- else I wouldn't see posts (not on these boards) that Obama is a Marxist dictator on the make, and that his "civilian security force" will be today's equivalent of the jackbooted, brownshirt SA thugs as he takes all our money and our guns, and forces us to wear gray uniforms while living in abject poverty.

[danielh41]

Are you suggesting that people should show loyalty by supporting the President even when they feel he's done something terribly wrong? Or, at the very least, that they should refrain from sniping at him while he tries to lead the country through difficult times, simply because he is the President?

I have three reactions to that:

1. Can we then expect this same standard of behavior from you through the Obama presidency? Will you show loyalty by refraining from criticizing him?

2. Getting sniped at goes with the job. Every President has faced that, without exception. "If you can't stand the heat...."

3. Seriously, I fully expect you to express your disapproval of any action of President Obama that you don't like. (Though I hope, and believe, that you will give him a chance first.) Because you should!

And here's another view:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

I think daniel is complaining about the level of vitriol towards Bush, not that he was criticized.

But the level of vitriol is high on both sides of the aisle- else I wouldn't see posts (not on these boards) that Obama is a Marxist dictator on the make, and that his "civilian security force" will be today's equivalent of the jackbooted, brownshirt SA thugs as he takes all our money and our guns, and forces us to wear gray uniforms while living in abject poverty.

I have been critical of some of Bush's policies myself (i.e. border policies, the fact that Planned Parenthood gets government money, the bailout, etc.). But saying that he's stupid or incompetent or naming a sewage plant after him shows an unhealthy lack of respect.

I disagreed with Gore and Kerry during the previous two elections, but I will say that I didn't have the same level of disdain for them that I have with Obama. For me, that all stems from one action on Obama's part--his unconscionable actions against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. Unfortunately, Obama is neither stupid or imcompetent--if he were, he wouldn't have been elected.

[Duh Mass]

Are you suggesting that people should show loyalty by supporting the President even when they feel he's done something terribly wrong? Or, at the very least, that they should refrain from sniping at him while he tries to lead the country through difficult times, simply because he is the President?

I have three reactions to that:

1. Can we then expect this same standard of behavior from you through the Obama presidency? Will you show loyalty by refraining from criticizing him?

2. Getting sniped at goes with the job. Every President has faced that, without exception. "If you can't stand the heat...."

3. Seriously, I fully expect you to express your disapproval of any action of President Obama that you don't like. (Though I hope, and believe, that you will give him a chance first.) Because you should!

And here's another view:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

I think daniel is complaining about the level of vitriol towards Bush, not that he was criticized.

But the level of vitriol is high on both sides of the aisle- else I wouldn't see posts (not on these boards) that Obama is a Marxist dictator on the make, and that his "civilian security force" will be today's equivalent of the jackbooted, brownshirt SA thugs as he takes all our money and our guns, and forces us to wear gray uniforms while living in abject poverty.

I have been critical of some of Bush's policies myself (i.e. border policies, the fact that Planned Parenthood gets government money, the bailout, etc.). But saying that he's stupid or incompetent or naming a sewage plant after him shows an unhealthy lack of respect.

What about avatars?

[SportsFan68]

This article hit the nail on the head... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122584386627599251.html

The Treatment of Bush Has Been a Disgrace
What must our enemies be thinking?
By JEFFREY SCOTT SHAPIRO

Yet it should seem obvious that many of our country's current problems either existed long before Mr. Bush ever came to office, or are beyond his control. Perhaps if Americans stopped being so divisive, and congressional leaders came together to work with the president on some of these problems, he would actually have had a fighting chance of solving them.

They're thinking the same things they thought when Carter was bounced back to the peanut farm.

And Carter said the above. It's been a million years, so I may not have it verbatim. Anyway, here's what he said: There are no simple solutions or easy answers to problems that have built up over a long period of time.

We got a good look at this one 28 years ago, Daniel. You can't say you weren't warned. It's up to you to start pointing to a solution instead of pointing fingers. Rosalynn Carter said this (same million year disclaimer): Nothing in history was ever solved by placing blame.

Things didn't go the way you wanted them to. Start doing what the rest of us did in 2004, when many of us who are celebrating today accepted our share of personal blame for what we saw as a failure. Figure out a way to make it happen the way you want it and start working for it.

[Rexer25]

To sum up my feelings about this administration:

The current executive branch of the United States of America condones, and may practice, torture.
George W. Bush deserves every bit of scorn and disdain he's getting, just for this fact.

[WheresFanny]

But saying that he's stupid or incompetent or naming a sewage plant after him shows an unhealthy lack of respect.

As opposed to saying that someone is evil or a murderer or applauding a dog metaphorically pissing on him?

[danielh41]

But saying that he's stupid or incompetent or naming a sewage plant after him shows an unhealthy lack of respect.

As opposed to saying that someone is evil or a murderer or applauding a dog metaphorically pissing on him?

Obama's voting record and ideas about the economy are socialist, he does condone the murder of babies just because their mothers decided to have them killed, and the dog was peeing on his campaign for President, not him. Now that he is the President-elect, I have changed avatars.

[silverscreenselect]

But the level of vitriol is high on both sides of the aisle- else I wouldn't see posts (not on these boards) that Obama is a Marxist dictator on the make, and that his "civilian security force" will be today's equivalent of the jackbooted, brownshirt SA thugs as he takes all our money and our guns, and forces us to wear gray uniforms while living in abject poverty.

I am curious if any of the right wingers on the Bored feel just a little bit nervous at the prospect of President Obama using the Patriot Act and his "war powers" in general to go after those against whom he bears a grudge or perhaps those whose policies he disagrees with.

[5LD]

Rec to Rexer! I was going to write virtually the same thing. You beat me to it.

[danielh41]

To sum up my feelings about this administration:

The current executive branch of the United States of America condones, and may practice, torture.
George W. Bush deserves every bit of scorn and disdain he's getting, just for this fact.

The current execute branch of the United States condones the safety of our troops and citizens wherever possible in this time of war. Personally, I would rather see a water-logged terrorist over a squad of dead American soldiers.

[silverscreenselect]

To sum up my feelings about this administration:

The current executive branch of the United States of America condones, and may practice, torture.
George W. Bush deserves every bit of scorn and disdain he's getting, just for this fact.

The current execute branch of the United States condones the safety of our troops and citizens wherever possible in this time of war. Personally, I would rather see a water-logged terrorist over a squad of dead American soldiers.

So if President Obama has someone in Chicago whisked away on an all-expenses-paid trip to Gitmo, you're happy with that because "of course" he would only do that to terrorists.

[TheCalvinator24]

But the level of vitriol is high on both sides of the aisle- else I wouldn't see posts (not on these boards) that Obama is a Marxist dictator on the make, and that his "civilian security force" will be today's equivalent of the jackbooted, brownshirt SA thugs as he takes all our money and our guns, and forces us to wear gray uniforms while living in abject poverty.

I am curious if any of the right wingers on the Bored feel just a little bit nervous at the prospect of President Obama using the Patriot Act and his "war powers" in general to go after those against whom he bears a grudge or perhaps those whose policies he disagrees with.

If I may.

No, because his last name isn't Clinton.

[Rexer25]

To sum up my feelings about this administration:

The current executive branch of the United States of America condones, and may practice, torture.
George W. Bush deserves every bit of scorn and disdain he's getting, just for this fact.

The current execute branch of the United States condones the safety of our troops and citizens wherever possible in this time of war. Personally, I would rather see a water-logged terrorist over a squad of dead American soldiers.

Look up extraordinary rendition when you get a chance, and tell me how that helps protect our troops. In fact, talk to real interrogation experts, and find out how much they trust information obtained in this way. Then talk to some Muslims in the middle east who were moderate in their feelings towards the U.S., and see how their views changed when they found out about our "enlightened ways". And why you're at it, take an international poll to find out how governments world-wide feel about dealing with our government.

These actions do more to put our troops in danger than planted or incorrect information from a tortured detainee can to save them.

[Bob Juch]

To sum up my feelings about this administration:

The current executive branch of the United States of America condones, and may practice, torture.
George W. Bush deserves every bit of scorn and disdain he's getting, just for this fact.

The current execute branch of the United States condones the safety of our troops and citizens wherever possible in this time of war. Personally, I would rather see a water-logged terrorist over a squad of dead American soldiers.

So you're OK with the torture of American soldiers in revenge?

[silverscreenselect]

But the level of vitriol is high on both sides of the aisle- else I wouldn't see posts (not on these boards) that Obama is a Marxist dictator on the make, and that his "civilian security force" will be today's equivalent of the jackbooted, brownshirt SA thugs as he takes all our money and our guns, and forces us to wear gray uniforms while living in abject poverty.

I am curious if any of the right wingers on the Bored feel just a little bit nervous at the prospect of President Obama using the Patriot Act and his "war powers" in general to go after those against whom he bears a grudge or perhaps those whose policies he disagrees with.

If I may.

No, because his last name isn't Clinton.

Anyone who has grown up around Chicago machine politics knows how to play games with power, and, thanks to Bush and the Patriot Act, Obama will have more power than any Chicago politician ever has.

[PlacentiaSoccerMom]

To sum up my feelings about this administration:

The current executive branch of the United States of America condones, and may practice, torture.
George W. Bush deserves every bit of scorn and disdain he's getting, just for this fact.

The current execute branch of the United States condones the safety of our troops and citizens wherever possible in this time of war. Personally, I would rather see a water-logged terrorist over a squad of dead American soldiers.

Look up extraordinary rendition when you get a chance, and tell me how that helps protect our troops. In fact, talk to real interrogation experts, and find out how much they trust information obtained in this way. Then talk to some Muslims in the middle east who were moderate in their feelings towards the U.S., and see how their views changed when they found out about our "enlightened ways". And why you're at it, take an international poll to find out how governments world-wide feel about dealing with our government.

These actions do more to put our troops in danger than planted or incorrect information from a tortured detainee can to save them.

He won't listen to you Rexer.

You will be a much happier person if you put him on your foes list and avoid having to read his rabid spew.

[Jeemie]

But the level of vitriol is high on both sides of the aisle- else I wouldn't see posts (not on these boards) that Obama is a Marxist dictator on the make, and that his "civilian security force" will be today's equivalent of the jackbooted, brownshirt SA thugs as he takes all our money and our guns, and forces us to wear gray uniforms while living in abject poverty.

I am curious if any of the right wingers on the Bored feel just a little bit nervous at the prospect of President Obama using the Patriot Act and his "war powers" in general to go after those against whom he bears a grudge or perhaps those whose policies he disagrees with.

If I may.

No, because his last name isn't Clinton.

OK- now that had me laughing!

I know we were discussing a serious issue, but it was still funny.

To answer SSS's question in a more serious vein, let me tell you that I've spent quite a bit of time at the Hannity boards in recent week.

The answer to your question is- yes- some righties DEFINITELY fear such a thing.

[Jeemie]

To sum up my feelings about this administration:

The current executive branch of the United States of America condones, and may practice, torture.
George W. Bush deserves every bit of scorn and disdain he's getting, just for this fact.

I will not claim to support WHEN the Bush Administration thought torture was appropriate, but I will ask you- under NO circumstances is ANY form of "torture" appropriate?

I'm a realist, not an ideologue- I believe we cannot afford to have such an attitude such as yours become prevalent.

Of course- I would also have to know what you consider to be "torture".

[danielh41]

To sum up my feelings about this administration:

The current executive branch of the United States of America condones, and may practice, torture.
George W. Bush deserves every bit of scorn and disdain he's getting, just for this fact.

The current execute branch of the United States condones the safety of our troops and citizens wherever possible in this time of war. Personally, I would rather see a water-logged terrorist over a squad of dead American soldiers.

Look up extraordinary rendition when you get a chance, and tell me how that helps protect our troops. In fact, talk to real interrogation experts, and find out how much they trust information obtained in this way. Then talk to some Muslims in the middle east who were moderate in their feelings towards the U.S., and see how their views changed when they found out about our "enlightened ways". And why you're at it, take an international poll to find out how governments world-wide feel about dealing with our government.

These actions do more to put our troops in danger than planted or incorrect information from a tortured detainee can to save them.

I'll have to go by Condoleezza Rice's statement on this...

The US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice has denied the use of torture, in response to a letter written by Foreign Secretary Jack Straw on behalf of the United Kingdom as Presidency of the European Union. On 5 December 2005 she said: Rendition is a vital tool in combating trans-national terrorism. Its use is not unique to the United States, or to the current administration…[However] the United States does not permit, tolerate or condone torture under any circumstances.

The United States has respected—and will continue to respect—the sovereignty of other countries.
The United States does not transport, and has not transported, detainees from one country to another for the purpose of interrogation under torture.
The United States does not use the airspace or the airports of any country for the purpose of transporting a detainee to a country where he or she will be tortured.
The United States has not transported anyone, and will not transport anyone, to a country when we believe he will be tortured. Where appropriate, the United States seeks assurances that transferred people will not be tortured.

But I will say that after 9-11 the administration has kept the number of terrorist attacks on American soil to a very low number (zero), so whatever they are doing has kept you and me and everyone else here safe.

[danielh41]

He won't listen to you Rexer.

You will be a much happier person if you put him on your foes list and avoid having to read his rabid spew.

In this enlightened era of political correctness, it seems fitting that stating truth (that abortion is the taking of an innocent human life and that our government's job is to protect citizens from foreign attack) is now considered rabid spew.

[danielh41]

Getting back to the original point of this thread, President Bush has been tested like no other President in a generation. We lost almost 3000 citizens in a gutless attack on our own soil. We were faced with corporate corruption. There was the war in Afganistan and the difficult decision to go into Iraq. And there was the collapse of the mortgage industry and an economic crisis.

George W. Bush has spent 8 years in the most difficult job on the planet. Even though I don't agree with every step he made, I do thank him for his service to this country in tremendous times.

I do hope that Obama is up to the task. We still face tremendous challenges, both to the economy and overseas (especially the Middle East). I will admit that Obama as president scares me. But as the polls continued to favor Obama over the last few weeks, I have had to quit stressing over the election and just leave it to God. I do believe that God has a plan, and that Obama is part of that plan, however much his positions on certain issues are against what most Christians believe.

I will continue to pray for our country and our President throughout the next four years, but that doesn't mean I will not speak out for things that I believe in.