Quick Debate Take

[Sir_Galahad]

I thought Biden was pretty strong and Palin was a bit weak. I really wished she would have answered the questions and not constantly reverted back to her previously stated positions on energy and her accomplishments in Alaska. Again, as with McCain last week, I thought she had a great opportunity to do a lot of damage but failed to do so. But, I thought she did better than she did on the TV interviews.

[Beebs52]

I thought Biden was pretty strong and Palin was a bit weak. I really wished she would have answered the questions and not constantly reverted back to her previously stated positions on energy and her accomplishments in Alaska. Again, as with McCain last week, I thought she had a great opportunity to do a lot of damage but failed to do so. But, I thought she did better than she did on the TV interviews.

I think you're wrong in your assessment.

[Tocqueville3]

I thought Biden was pretty strong and Palin was a bit weak. I really wished she would have answered the questions and not constantly reverted back to her previously stated positions on energy and her accomplishments in Alaska. Again, as with McCain last week, I thought she had a great opportunity to do a lot of damage but failed to do so. But, I thought she did better than she did on the TV interviews.

I think you're wrong in your assessment.

Me too.

[Beebs52]

I thought Biden was pretty strong and Palin was a bit weak. I really wished she would have answered the questions and not constantly reverted back to her previously stated positions on energy and her accomplishments in Alaska. Again, as with McCain last week, I thought she had a great opportunity to do a lot of damage but failed to do so. But, I thought she did better than she did on the TV interviews.

I think you're wrong in your assessment.

Me too.

I'll co-opt the comment. "Gee, what a surprise."

There. Now all can go onto the more indepth discussion of why.

[Tocqueville3]

I think you're wrong in your assessment.

Me too.

I'll co-opt the comment. "Gee, what a surprise."

There. Now all can go onto the more indepth discussion of why.

Naw...I'm too tired for in depth analysis. I still need to make school lunches and get myself together for tomorrow.

[Beebs52]

Me too.

I'll co-opt the comment. "Gee, what a surprise."

There. Now all can go onto the more indepth discussion of why.

Naw...I'm too tired for in depth analysis. I still need to make school lunches and get myself together for tomorrow.

Well, crap. I have to clean up the Beebs' deposits that he's leaving in his declining old age. I guess I'll have to wait til tomorrow as well.

We coulda been contendahs!

[kayrharris]

I have to leave for the airport at 7:45AM in the morning and have the house clean for the housekeeper to come.

Guess I can't stay up too late tonight. No in chat? I haven't checked yet.

[silverscreenselect]

I thought that on points, Biden came out a little ahead. But my gut feeling going into this was that Palin didn't need to beat Biden, and it was a little ridiculous for anyone to expect that someone with her level of experience could outargue a guy who has been in the Senate for 30 years.

What Palin needed to do was come across as reasonably capable, someone who people could picture as president without being scared to death. And, with the exception of people who were already strong Obama supporters, she did that. This will stop the bleeding from the Gibson/Couric interviews, limit questions about McCain's judgment in picking her, reinvigorate the Republican base and reinforce McCain's theme that the media has been in the tank for Obama. The smartest thing McCain did in the entire campaign was to push the media bias theme early (in July) and have it take hold.

Now, assuming that the House passes a bailout bill and the specter of imminent doom recedes a bit in people's minds, McCain has a chance to push back. The thing about Obama is that he just can't close the deal with people. Voters say he says the things they want to hear and they are leaning towards voting for him... but....

Expect the negative ads to start flying soon in earnest, and McCain will be close enough for them not to be seen as total desperation on his part. If the McCain camp really has been holding back some ammo (which I think is the case), instead of just rehashing the same Wright/Rezko charges, there is a good chance for that to stick.

[Beebs52]

I thought that on points, Biden came out a little ahead. But my gut feeling going into this was that Palin didn't need to beat Biden, and it was a little ridiculous for anyone to expect that someone with her level of experience could outargue a guy who has been in the Senate for 30 years.

What Palin needed to do was come across as reasonably capable, someone who people could picture as president without being scared to death. And, with the exception of people who were already strong Obama supporters, she did that. This will stop the bleeding from the Gibson/Couric interviews, limit questions about McCain's judgment in picking her, reinvigorate the Republican base and reinforce McCain's theme that the media has been in the tank for Obama. The smartest thing McCain did in the entire campaign was to push the media bias theme early (in July) and have it take hold.

Now, assuming that the House passes a bailout bill and the specter of imminent doom recedes a bit in people's minds, McCain has a chance to push back. The thing about Obama is that he just can't close the deal with people. Voters say he says the things they want to hear and they are leaning towards voting for him... but....

Expect the negative ads to start flying soon in earnest, and McCain will be close enough for them not to be seen as total desperation on his part. If the McCain camp really has been holding back some ammo (which I think is the case), instead of just rehashing the same Wright/Rezko charges, there is a good chance for that to stick.

Seriously, Biden was scratching his cheek at one point. That's not good.

[danielh41]

I was much more impressed with Sarah Palin's performance last night than I was with McCain's in that first debate. I thought she connected well with the TV audience and her "Dog gone it"s were endearing. I thought she won the debate, but then again, I believe that Obama and Biden are wrong on every issue of import, so I would think that.

[gsabc]

I thought she connected well with the TV audience and her "Dog gone it"s were endearing.

These are not characteristics I place high on my "must have" list for political candidates. If they were, I'd nominate Ty Pennington.

[danielh41]

I thought she connected well with the TV audience and her "Dog gone it"s were endearing.

These are not characteristics I place high on my "must have" list for political candidates. If they were, I'd nominate Ty Pennington.

No, but those characteristics were also displayed in the 1980 debates. The man who displayed them only became the greatest President of the 20th century.

[mellytu74]

I thought Biden was pretty strong and Palin was a bit weak. I really wished she would have answered the questions and not constantly reverted back to her previously stated positions on energy and her accomplishments in Alaska. Again, as with McCain last week, I thought she had a great opportunity to do a lot of damage but failed to do so. But, I thought she did better than she did on the TV interviews.

I'm kind of with Sir G on this. I think that Palin was stronger than he does even though I thought she looked at her notes a skooch too much.

I found Gov. Palin's constant moving the topic back to energy a little disconcerting.

In the event that she becomes President of the United States, she will not be able to pick and choose what she wants to deal with and keep bringing the subject back to energy.

I didn't see Sen. Biden scratch his cheek as much as Beebs did. Did he do it as many times as Gov. Palin winked?

A couple of things really struck me.

I thought Sen. Biden missed an opportunity with Gov. Palin's "white flag of surrender" remark to say something to the effect of "The best way to support the troops -- my son, your son, Senator McCain's sons, every son and daughter who is over there -- is to bring them home safely and as soon as possible." Then something about Iraq and timetable.

Although he did say something to that effect later, I thought he could have scored more debate points had he said it then.

I also thought it interesting that the CNN undecided focus group gave her really low marks for the "white flag" remark, among the lowest of the night.

As far as Gov. Palin's folksiness, the big difference between Gov. Palin and Gov. Reagan is that Gov. Reagan had a very clear and distinct point of view of how he wanted to govern and what he thought the country needed.

Sen. McCain is all over the map and Gov. Palin was not able to articulate and support his positions. Biden had a clear advantage there.

So, in the end, I think Sen. Biden helped Sen. Obama in that there were no big gaffes and he was able to support his positions well.

Gov. Palin helped herself immensely. Helping Sen. McCain, however, not so much.

[ne1410s]

I wish she had answered the question she was asked instead of going into "See and Say" mode. She IS obviously very coachable. She even threw in a "there you go again" at hair plugs boy. RWR was prolly spinning like a turret lathe.

But, on a higher, more scholarly plane: her voice just kills me. Frances McDormand in "Fargo". No wonder first dude goes on 2000 mile snow machine races. The constant whine of the engine must be a great relief to his ears.

I do not want this extremely high maintainence person to be a heartbeat away......from anything.

[minimetoo26]

I thought Biden was pretty strong and Palin was a bit weak. I really wished she would have answered the questions and not constantly reverted back to her previously stated positions on energy and her accomplishments in Alaska. Again, as with McCain last week, I thought she had a great opportunity to do a lot of damage but failed to do so. But, I thought she did better than she did on the TV interviews.

I think you're wrong in your assessment.

Me too.

And my husband absolutely agrees with that assessment. She was extremely well-coached not to drift off from the talking points, no matter what the question actually asked.

I only watched a portion of the festivities, but I knew as long as she didn't throw up on the stage she'd do better than expectations had sunk to a couple weeks ago.

[ne1410s]

d41:

No, but those characteristics were also displayed in the 1980 debates. The man who displayed them only became the greatest President of the 20th century.

I just puked a little bit in my mouth...

[minimetoo26]

d41:

No, but those characteristics were also displayed in the 1980 debates. The man who displayed them only became the greatest President of the 20th century.

I just puked a little bit in my mouth...

I was just puzzled--she's NOTHING like Clinton was!

[smilergrogan]

But, on a higher, more scholarly plane: her voice just kills me. Frances McDormand in "Fargo".

I think Jane Curtain as Lisa Loopner's mom on SNL, circa 1977. I wonder if she ever calls Todd "Pizza Face".

[danielh41]

d41:

No, but those characteristics were also displayed in the 1980 debates. The man who displayed them only became the greatest President of the 20th century.

I just puked a little bit in my mouth...

Gallup poll
A Gallup poll about presidential greatness, taken February 9–11, 2007, asked 1006 adults nationwide, "Who do you regard as the greatest United States president?"[11]

Abraham Lincoln (18%)
Ronald Reagan (16%)
John F. Kennedy (14%)
Bill Clinton (13%)
Franklin Roosevelt (9%)
Other/None/No opinion (8%)
George Washington (7%)
Harry Truman (3%)
George W. Bush (2%)
Theodore Roosevelt (2%)
Dwight Eisenhower (2%)
Thomas Jefferson (2%)
Jimmy Carter (2%)
Gerald Ford (1%)
George H.W. Bush (1%)
Richard Nixon (0%)

Personally, I would rank them:
1. Washington
2. Reagan
3. Lincoln
4. FDR
5. Jefferson

[smilergrogan]

d41:

No, but those characteristics were also displayed in the 1980 debates. The man who displayed them only became the greatest President of the 20th century.

I just puked a little bit in my mouth...

Gallup poll
A Gallup poll about presidential greatness, taken February 9–11, 2007, asked 1006 adults nationwide, "Who do you regard as the greatest United States president?"[11]

Abraham Lincoln (18%)
Ronald Reagan (16%)
John F. Kennedy (14%)
Bill Clinton (13%)
Franklin Roosevelt (9%)
Other/None/No opinion (8%)
George Washington (7%)
Harry Truman (3%)
George W. Bush (2%)
Theodore Roosevelt (2%)
Dwight Eisenhower (2%)
Thomas Jefferson (2%)
Jimmy Carter (2%)
Gerald Ford (1%)
George H.W. Bush (1%)
Richard Nixon (0%)

Personally, I would rank them:
1. Washington
2. Reagan
3. Lincoln
4. FDR
5. Jefferson

But you have to admit a man-in-the-street survey like this heavily favors recent presidents, especially since it appears people were not given a list of all the presidents to refer to. It looks like the list firmly establishes that 1006 average adults can collectively name about 15 out of the 42 different presidents.

[danielh41]

d41: I just puked a little bit in my mouth...

Gallup poll
A Gallup poll about presidential greatness, taken February 9–11, 2007, asked 1006 adults nationwide, "Who do you regard as the greatest United States president?"[11]

Abraham Lincoln (18%)
Ronald Reagan (16%)
John F. Kennedy (14%)
Bill Clinton (13%)
Franklin Roosevelt (9%)
Other/None/No opinion (8%)
George Washington (7%)
Harry Truman (3%)
George W. Bush (2%)
Theodore Roosevelt (2%)
Dwight Eisenhower (2%)
Thomas Jefferson (2%)
Jimmy Carter (2%)
Gerald Ford (1%)
George H.W. Bush (1%)
Richard Nixon (0%)

Personally, I would rank them:
1. Washington
2. Reagan
3. Lincoln
4. FDR
5. Jefferson

But you have to admit a man-in-the-street survey like this heavily favors recent presidents, especially since it appears people were not given a list of all the presidents to refer to. It looks like the list firmly establishes that 1006 average adults can collectively name about 15 out of the 42 different presidents.

True, but the survey asked each person to name only the one greatest President. Who in their right mind would have named Harding or W. H. Harrison, or Buchanan (although apparently there was at least one person who said Richard Nixon)?

[Bob78164]

I thought she connected well with the TV audience and her "Dog gone it"s were endearing.

These are not characteristics I place high on my "must have" list for political candidates. If they were, I'd nominate Ty Pennington.

No, but those characteristics were also displayed in the 1980 debates. The man who displayed them only became the greatest President of the 20th century.

You need to check your history books. FDR died in 1945, and Teddy Roosevelt, who left office in 1909, wasn't a candidate in 1980. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

In the event that she becomes President of the United States, she will not be able to pick and choose what she wants to deal with and keep bringing the subject back to energy.

And if Palin becomes President, Gwen Iffil and Katie Couric won't be choosing the subjects with which she has to deal either.

Iffil asked no energy questions although she did find time for one about global warming and gay rights (which Biden totally botched winding up sounding as if he agrees with Palin's position). Palin wouldn't have been able to bring in one of her strongest points if she hadn't taken the bull by the horns.

Bringing up Iffil's bias in advance was a good move by the McCain team because it allowed Palin to shift the debate around to her areas of strength without seeming evasive.

[silverscreenselect]

Gov. Palin helped herself immensely. Helping Sen. McCain, however, not so much.

By helping herself, she helps McCain. If this election boils down to a generic Democrat vs. Republicans talking points debate on the economy, I don't care if you have Reagan, Teddy Roosevelt, Abe Lincoln and George Washington all lined up to extol the virtues of Republican economics. In the current political climate, the Republicans lose by 20 points. Joe Biden running for President against McCain or any Republican wins by 20 points. That's how low the Republican brand is right now.

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity may spout off about staying true to conservative principles but they aren't stupid. A conservative Republican can't do what Reagan did and win on the economic issues, because 2008 isn't 1980. However, by finding room to quibble with McCain on some of his stands, they enhance his independent credentials which allows him to distance himself somewhat from Bush.

There's one way for McCain to win: (A) trash Obama, and (B) position himself as an acceptable alternative with mainstream voters. Palin had begun to be perceived as a risk from a possible succession standpoint and as reflecting on McCain's judgment. He's now effectively taken that issue off the table, and with the bailout package, limited the impact of the economy a bit. Now he has a chance by doing what Republicans do best, go after the opposition, and in this case, Obama has a lot to legitimately go after.

[T_Bone0806]

But, on a higher, more scholarly plane: her voice just kills me. Frances McDormand in "Fargo".

I think Jane Curtain as Lisa Loopner's mom on SNL, circa 1977. I wonder if she ever calls Todd "Pizza Face".

I thought of both of these. But then I thought of one even closer..Principal Victoria on "South Park". Sounds just like her.

I've already said I won't get involved in the "who's right and who's wrong" arguments on this bored, because I don't come here for politrical discussions. Different strokes for different folks, says Sly Stone.

However, I will give one example of something each candidate did that annoyed me.

Biden--talk to ME, dammit, not the moderator. Palin taked directly to the viewers, maintaining "eye contact" almost entirely throughout her answers. Biden spent most of his time looking either at the studio audience or the moderator. A whole lot more votes sitting at home than in the studio, Joe. There's a bigger connection when the viewer feels he or she is being spoken to directly. Palin talked to US, whether you liked what she had to say or not. With Biden, it was as if we were overhearing a conversation.

Palin--overdid the "folksy" touch to the point that I wasn't feeling any sincerity in it. The goshdarnits, by gollys, winks, and occasional whispered word for emphasis grated on my nerves. Not being able to get through an answer without resorting to one of the following buzzwords/phrases didn't help either:

-Hockey/Soccer mom
-Joe Sixpack
-Maverick
-Ronald Reagan

I envisioned an index card with these phrases in front of her on the podium.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled donnybrook.