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flockofseagulls104
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#26 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:34 pm

Ritterskoop wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
But I guess politicians are more apt to govern based on their own personal beliefs and preferences than journalists are apt to report based on theirs.
Say more about what you mean by this.

If you mean that journalists, like everyone else, naturally lean in some direction or another, that is true. The sooner we acknowledge it and are open about it, the sooner we can compensate for our leanings.

If you mean something else, I am trying to figure out what it is.
What I mean is showing up right here, right now on this board. Everything Sarah Palin, or any politician,has ever said and done is filtered through journalists, and we come up with stuff like 'fired librarians', swift boats, not wearing lapel pins, etc...

Why do we assume journalists are inherently above the fray? I don't know Gwen Ifill from Adam, and I'm not casting any aspersions on her, but if a politician was put in a similar situation, that person would be vilified as a greedy SOB by the press (especially if they are conservative), and the conflict of interest would be so obvious. But because she is a 'respected' member of the main stream press, no problem, she can be fair. She must be above such mundane things as personal gain, because she is devoted to the truth.

I think it would be great if anyone who made their living 'reporting' the news had to go through the same kind of vetting that they put our politicians through. I'd like to see how many of them would survive someone going through their underwear drawers. Maybe then we could trust them to be fair.

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#27 Post by TheCalvinator24 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:10 am

SportsFan68 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote:
Palin fired the librarian after she refused to go along with Palin's plan. The town residents stopped Palin and reinstated the librarian.

http://www.islandpacket.com/opinion/let ... 26107.html
The next time I need to find out what's really going on in the state of Alaska, I'll consult your source, Alice King, the librarian of Hilton Head Island.
LOL! I looked a little bit for that E-mail that got forwarded around.

Anyway, as many sources as Cal can find saying False! I can find an equal number saying True!
I tell you what. You find one credible quote from that Wasilla Librarian saying that Palin tried to have books banned, and I'll believe it.

Also, the claim that Palin tried to fire her because of the alleged book banning is an example of a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
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#28 Post by SportsFan68 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:27 am

TheCalvinator24 wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote: LOL! I looked a little bit for that E-mail that got forwarded around.

Anyway, as many sources as Cal can find saying False! I can find an equal number saying True!
I tell you what. You find one credible quote from that Wasilla Librarian saying that Palin tried to have books banned, and I'll believe it.

fallacy.
(((Bow and flourish))) Well done, Cal! :D You set the terms so that based on my own proposed sources, I can't succeed at your challenge!

After looking a little harder, I found the E-mail I referred to:

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter.

Snopes confirms that Kilkenny wrote the E-mail and that it is an accurate reproduction.

Snopes also says, based on newspaper reports at the time:

Palin notified Emmons she would be fired in January 1997 because she didn't feel she had the librarian's "full support." Emmons was reinstated the next day after public outcry, according to newspaper reports at the time.
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#29 Post by mellytu74 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:40 am

silverscreenselect wrote: She fumbled when asked to name another Supreme Court case with which she disagreed, which isn't that surprising because when pressed, a lot of people only know the names of a few Supreme Court cases, most of which have become long time case law. It's not surprising that Joe Biden, a lawyer, could give a detailed description of a bill that he spent ten years working on, while Sarah Palin, a non-lawyer, couldn't come up with a Surpreme Court case, by name, with which she disagreed.
sss --

I disagree.

The Supreme Court question and subsequent lack of answer showed exactly how stifled Gov. Palin has been by the McCain handling team.

If there was one question where Gov. Palin should have been able to knock it out of the park, this was it.

The case? The recent Supreme Court ruling slashing the punative damages in the Exxon Valdez case.

It's not only Alaska-related and energy-related but Gov. Palin is on the record as having been disappointed by the decision.

Edited to change the link because I didn't realize The Legal Times link had a bunch a attacks at the bottom which serve no one in this discussion.

http://www.adn.com/exxonvaldez/story/446277.html
Last edited by mellytu74 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#30 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:06 am

mellytu74 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote: She fumbled when asked to name another Supreme Court case with which she disagreed, which isn't that surprising because when pressed, a lot of people only know the names of a few Supreme Court cases, most of which have become long time case law. It's not surprising that Joe Biden, a lawyer, could give a detailed description of a bill that he spent ten years working on, while Sarah Palin, a non-lawyer, couldn't come up with a Surpreme Court case, by name, with which she disagreed.
The Supreme Court question and subsequent lack of answer showed exactly how stifled Gov. Palin has been by the McCain handling team.

If there was one question where Gov. Palin should have been able to knock it out of the park, this was it.

The case? The recent Supreme Court ruling slashing the punative damages in the Exxon Valdez case.

It's not only Alaska-related and energy-related but Gov. Palin is on the record as having been disappointed by the decision.
I hadn't thought of the Exxon Valdez case until you mentioned it and I wasn't on national television being interviewed by Katie Couric.

I agree that Palin hasn't mastered the art of the Washington interview. She's more used to doing interviews where reporters actually want to hear what she thinks about a subject rather than conduct a cross-examination of her.

She's also been mishandled or, more likely, over handled by the McCain team so that the way she thinks she's trying to answer questions conflicts with her natural style. The good news for her is that a whole lot of this is correctible tonight... if she comes across well. She won't be allowed to skate with complete generalities, but she's also not going to have to sound like an economics professor or Henry Kissinger either.

There is a lot of concern about her, but there is also a big perception on the part of the public (including independents) that the media has been unfair to her and McCain and at least a gut feeling on some level that what's been shown in interviews has been manipulated to show her at her worst. Most people still want to see for themselves rather than take ABC's or CBS' word for it.

Palin doesn't have to win the debate; she just has to show herself the reasonable equal of Biden. If she does so, then the public will be far more willing to take another look at the entire picture of this campaign. And if a bailout bill passes, the issue of dire peril will recede just a bit and the Republicans will get some credit in the public's eye for it. That gives McCain a chance to regain the initiative in Tuesday's debate.

If the Republicans play their cards right, the race could be pretty close to even again by the middle of next week and the public will be much more receptive to the inevitable attack ads that will be coming out in droves. If Palin bombs today or McCain on Tuesday, the race will be over.

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#31 Post by mellytu74 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:37 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
mellytu74 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote: She fumbled when asked to name another Supreme Court case with which she disagreed, which isn't that surprising because when pressed, a lot of people only know the names of a few Supreme Court cases, most of which have become long time case law. It's not surprising that Joe Biden, a lawyer, could give a detailed description of a bill that he spent ten years working on, while Sarah Palin, a non-lawyer, couldn't come up with a Surpreme Court case, by name, with which she disagreed.
The Supreme Court question and subsequent lack of answer showed exactly how stifled Gov. Palin has been by the McCain handling team.

If there was one question where Gov. Palin should have been able to knock it out of the park, this was it.

The case? The recent Supreme Court ruling slashing the punative damages in the Exxon Valdez case.

It's not only Alaska-related and energy-related but Gov. Palin is on the record as having been disappointed by the decision.
I hadn't thought of the Exxon Valdez case until you mentioned it and I wasn't on national television being interviewed by Katie Couric.
Yeah, but you aren't the Governor of Alaska who already has a stated and public opinion of the decision.

I think she's so heavily scripted that the question threw her and it shouldn't have.
I agree that Palin hasn't mastered the art of the Washington interview. She's more used to doing interviews where reporters actually want to hear what she thinks about a subject rather than conduct a cross-examination of her.

She's also been mishandled or, more likely, over handled by the McCain team so that the way she thinks she's trying to answer questions conflicts with her natural style. The good news for her is that a whole lot of this is correctible tonight... if she comes across well. She won't be allowed to skate with complete generalities, but she's also not going to have to sound like an economics professor or Henry Kissinger either.

There is a lot of concern about her, but there is also a big perception on the part of the public (including independents) that the media has been unfair to her and McCain and at least a gut feeling on some level that what's been shown in interviews has been manipulated to show her at her worst. Most people still want to see for themselves rather than take ABC's or CBS' word for it.

Palin doesn't have to win the debate; she just has to show herself the reasonable equal of Biden. If she does so, then the public will be far more willing to take another look at the entire picture of this campaign. And if a bailout bill passes, the issue of dire peril will recede just a bit and the Republicans will get some credit in the public's eye for it. That gives McCain a chance to regain the initiative in Tuesday's debate.

If the Republicans play their cards right, the race could be pretty close to even again by the middle of next week and the public will be much more receptive to the inevitable attack ads that will be coming out in droves. If Palin bombs today or McCain on Tuesday, the race will be over.
As I said above, I also don't think Sen. McCain does her any favors by continuing to pooh-pooh the Tony Luke's encounter with the Temple student and the question he asked about Pakistan.

It was a question from a voter. The kind that someone could ask in a real town hall, not closed "invitation only" event.

Gov. Palin gave what I thought was a pretty good answer, especially given the hectic environment.

McCain keeps calling it "gotcha journalism" because Katie Couric later mentioned it when it wasn't gotcha anything. It was an honest question from someone who didn't have an agenda (or, if he did, got derailed because of the clarity of the answer).

I think McCain's continued reaction diminishes how well Gov. Palin handled the original encounter.

If that's what McCain want to do because the answer doesn't reflect his stated opinion, fine.

But, why? Wouldn't it be better to say something like, "While I may disagree with Gov. Palin on this, I think her answer shows a good grasp etc. etc."?

I think McCain loses the minute a debate moderator asks about taxing health care benefits or his article about deregulating health care the way the financial markets were deregulated.

Even if Palin does OK tonight -- and I think they both will -- basically nothing will change.

I am going back to the Moratorium Lounge.

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#32 Post by silvercamaro » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:45 am

mellytu74 wrote:
I am going back to the Moratorium Lounge.
Greek food tomorrow. I can't wait.

So far, for today, I've found only a bag of stale Fritos.

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#33 Post by mellytu74 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:50 am

silvercamaro wrote:
mellytu74 wrote:
I am going back to the Moratorium Lounge.
Greek food tomorrow. I can't wait.

So far, for today, I've found only a bag of stale Fritos.
I am bringing a big jar of dry-roasted peanuts. And a case of Budweiser. Or, as it will be known after the merger, Stellaweiser.

However, I am ready to dance.

Because it will be Friday.

Because it will be Greek food. I love Greek food.

I will throw back a couple of Ouzos and be happy.

Ready to embrace the entire world. And dance.

OK, maybe not the ENTIRE world but certainly the fine peoples who frequent the Moratorium Lounge.

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#34 Post by mellytu74 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:53 am

I also have a ham and cheese sandwich and an orange for lunch.

But that's not enough to go around.

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#35 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:07 pm

Here's Couric's discussion with Biden about Roe v. Wade:
Katie Couric: Why do you think Roe v. Wade was a good decision?

Joe Biden: Because it's as close to a consensus that can exist in a society as heterogeneous as ours. What does it say? It says in the first three months that decision should be left to the woman. And the second three months, where Roe v. Wade says, well then the state, the government has a role, along with the women's health, they have a right to have some impact on that. And the third three months they say the weight of the government's input is on the fetus being carried.

And so that's sort of reflected as close as anybody is ever going to get in this heterogeneous, this multicultural society of religious people as to some sort of, not consensus, but as close it gets.

I think the liberty clause of the 14th Amendment … offers a right to privacy. Now that's one of the big debates that I have with my conservative scholar friends, that they say, you know, unless a right is enumerated - unless it's actually, unless [it] uses the word "privacy" in the Constitution - then no such "constitutional right" exists. Well, I think people have an inherent right.
Note that he's allowed by Couric to go on as long as he wants without being challenged. One might ask him why it is the Supreme Court's business to fashion a "consensus" on this issue, or even if assuming there's a right to privacy, that it extends to the right to obtain an abortion. I can certainly see a Sean Hannity or a Bill O'Reilly challenging Biden on these points. But Couric lets him slide and acts as if she's awed by his legal acumen.

Now here's the discussion with Palin:
Couric Why, in your view, is Roe v. Wade a bad decision?

Sarah Palin: I think it should be a states' issue not a federal government-mandated, mandating yes or no on such an important issue. I'm, in that sense, a federalist, where I believe that states should have more say in the laws of their lands and individual areas. Now, foundationally, also, though, it's no secret that I'm pro-life that I believe in a culture of life is very important for this country. Personally that's what I would like to see, um, further embraced by America.

Couric: Do you think there's an inherent right to privacy in the Constitution?

Palin: I do. Yeah, I do.

Couric: The cornerstone of Roe v. Wade.

Palin: I do. And I believe that individual states can best handle what the people within the different constituencies in the 50 states would like to see their will ushered in an issue like that.
While Biden sees this as a privacy issue, Palin sees it as a state's rights issue. Couric asks about a right to privacy, but before Palin can explain what she thinks the right to privacy means, Couric turns it into an attempted gotcha by calling it the cornerstone of Roe v. Wade.

It is quite possible to believe in a constitutional right of privacy in some form but also to believe that it does not extend as far as the Roe v. Wade holding. It's pretty obvious here that by Couric butting in and shifting the discussion back to Roe v. Wade, that Palin got flustered (which can happen when a nonlawyer is pressed on constitutional law decisions) and Couric's next question about naming other Supreme Court cases may have panicked her a bit.

I support Roe v. Wade, but it is certainly possible to make a reasoned legal argument against it. When you ask on the one hand an experienced constitutional law attorney and on the other a lay person about the legal fine points, and show the former deference while playing gotcha games and interrupting the latter, you'll get this sort of result. I'd like to see Biden handle a gotcha question about some of the issues Palin dealt with in renegotiating the oil leases (which involved the Canadian government by the way).

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#36 Post by Rexer25 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:11 pm

I don't expect a coherent answer, but I would like to know.

Why is it necessary to demonize those you disagree with?
Enough already. It's my fault! Get over it!

That'll be $10, please.

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#37 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:08 pm

Rexer25 wrote:I don't expect a coherent answer, but I would like to know.

Why is it necessary to demonize those you disagree with?
Since I assume this was directed towards me, which of my comments above could be construed as "demonizing" someone who disagrees with me?

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#38 Post by ne1410s » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:16 pm

sss:
which of my comments above could be construed as "demonizing" someone who disagrees with me?
No one is this obtuse...
"When you argue with a fool, there are two fools in the argument."

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#39 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:07 pm

ne1410s wrote:sss:
which of my comments above could be construed as "demonizing" someone who disagrees with me?
No one is this obtuse...
I'll repeat, which of my comments in this thread could be construed as "demonizing" someone who disagrees with me?

I won't say I haven't been snarky in the past, but this thread has been about as non-personal as possible. I haven't said one bad thing about Obama, much less anyone on this Bored.

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#40 Post by SportsFan68 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:22 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:I support Roe v. Wade, but it is certainly possible to make a reasoned legal argument against it. When you ask on the one hand an experienced constitutional law attorney and on the other a lay person about the legal fine points, and show the former deference while playing gotcha games and interrupting the latter, you'll get this sort of result. I'd like to see Biden handle a gotcha question about some of the issues Palin dealt with in renegotiating the oil leases (which involved the Canadian government by the way).
Not me. He'd handle it smoothly and quickly and at length without a stack of ums, repeats, and backtracks, and he'd probably manage to chide the questioner somewhere in the middle for trying a gotcha and by way of discouraging similar behavior in the future. This would get him plaudits from Dems and lambasting from Reps. Knowledge would not be furthered, and some poor would-be news anchor would be watching her/his career go into a tailspin.
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#41 Post by TheCalvinator24 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:37 pm

SportsFan68 wrote:
TheCalvinator24 wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote: LOL! I looked a little bit for that E-mail that got forwarded around.

Anyway, as many sources as Cal can find saying False! I can find an equal number saying True!
I tell you what. You find one credible quote from that Wasilla Librarian saying that Palin tried to have books banned, and I'll believe it.

fallacy.
(((Bow and flourish))) Well done, Cal! :D You set the terms so that based on my own proposed sources, I can't succeed at your challenge!

After looking a little harder, I found the E-mail I referred to:

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter.

Snopes confirms that Kilkenny wrote the E-mail and that it is an accurate reproduction.

Snopes also says, based on newspaper reports at the time:

Palin notified Emmons she would be fired in January 1997 because she didn't feel she had the librarian's "full support." Emmons was reinstated the next day after public outcry, according to newspaper reports at the time.
I don't doubt the authenticity of the Kilkenny e-mail. I doubt Kilkenny's account of the events. The fired, then re-hired, Librarian has never claimed the Palin asked her to ban books. If Palin had asked her to ban books, don't you think she would have been trumpeting that on the air. You can be sure that media outlets would love to interview her if she were going to say that, yes, Sarah Palin had asked her to remove some books.
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#42 Post by SportsFan68 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:04 pm

TheCalvinator24 wrote: I don't doubt the authenticity of the Kilkenny e-mail. I doubt Kilkenny's account of the events. The fired, then re-hired, Librarian has never claimed the Palin asked her to ban books. If Palin had asked her to ban books, don't you think she would have been trumpeting that on the air. You can be sure that media outlets would love to interview her if she were going to say that, yes, Sarah Palin had asked her to remove some books.
I said that. I said that based on the terms of your challenge, I couldn't succeed. I knew that you knew that I wouldn't be able to produce remarks from the fired librarian because there weren't any to produce. I knew that you knew that the Kilkenny remarks wouldn't quote the librarian. Media outlets would love to interview her (the librarian) if she were going to say that yes, Palin had asked her to remove some books, and media outlets would love to interview her (the librarian) if she were going to say that no, Palin had never asked her to remove any books. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that she's still mad over the termination letter (although rescinded immediately when the fires of hell in the form of inflamed citizens started singeing Palin's door -- to put it in SSS's terms, when Palin determined which way the political winds were blowing and made her decision on that basis) and won't allow herself to be interviewed by anybody.

I've already bowed and flourished, I'm not doing it again for the same thing. Enjoy the debate. :D
Last edited by SportsFan68 on Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#43 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:25 pm

TheCalvinator24 wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote:
TheCalvinator24 wrote: I tell you what. You find one credible quote from that Wasilla Librarian saying that Palin tried to have books banned, and I'll believe it.

fallacy.
(((Bow and flourish))) Well done, Cal! :D You set the terms so that based on my own proposed sources, I can't succeed at your challenge!

After looking a little harder, I found the E-mail I referred to:

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter.

Snopes confirms that Kilkenny wrote the E-mail and that it is an accurate reproduction.

Snopes also says, based on newspaper reports at the time:

Palin notified Emmons she would be fired in January 1997 because she didn't feel she had the librarian's "full support." Emmons was reinstated the next day after public outcry, according to newspaper reports at the time.
I don't doubt the authenticity of the Kilkenny e-mail. I doubt Kilkenny's account of the events. The fired, then re-hired, Librarian has never claimed the Palin asked her to ban books. If Palin had asked her to ban books, don't you think she would have been trumpeting that on the air. You can be sure that media outlets would love to interview her if she were going to say that, yes, Sarah Palin had asked her to remove some books.
As far as I know, it's undisputed that at a minimum, Mayor Palin asked the librarian her reaction to the idea of banning books. I'm not aware that there was any suggestion the subject had come up in the past. Mayor Palin's question was wholly inappropriate.

It may be true that there's no smoking gun. But the circumstantial evidence of a wholly inappropriate question followed by a quickly rescinded termination letter is strong circumstantial evidence. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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#44 Post by TheCalvinator24 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:35 pm

Bob78164 wrote:As far as I know, it's undisputed that at a minimum, Mayor Palin asked the librarian her reaction to the idea of banning books. I'm not aware that there was any suggestion the subject had come up in the past. Mayor Palin's question was wholly inappropriate.

It may be true that there's no smoking gun. But the circumstantial evidence of a wholly inappropriate question followed by a quickly rescinded termination letter is strong circumstantial evidence. --Bob
First, it is disputed that Palin asked the Librarian "her reaction to the idea of banning books."

Second, even if she had, why is the question "wholly inappropriate"?
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#45 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:40 pm

TheCalvinator24 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:As far as I know, it's undisputed that at a minimum, Mayor Palin asked the librarian her reaction to the idea of banning books. I'm not aware that there was any suggestion the subject had come up in the past. Mayor Palin's question was wholly inappropriate.

It may be true that there's no smoking gun. But the circumstantial evidence of a wholly inappropriate question followed by a quickly rescinded termination letter is strong circumstantial evidence. --Bob
First, it is disputed that Palin asked the Librarian "her reaction to the idea of banning books."

Second, even if she had, why is the question "wholly inappropriate"?
Because when it comes out of the blue and is asked of a librarian with no history of any interest in banning books, it's clearly code for "Would you ban books if I told you to?" At a minimum, that's an obvious way to understand the question and if Mayor Palin actually had some other reason to ask that question, the burden is on her to persuasively explain that reason. --Bob
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#46 Post by Rexer25 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:41 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Rexer25 wrote:I don't expect a coherent answer, but I would like to know.

Why is it necessary to demonize those you disagree with?
Since I assume this was directed towards me, which of my comments above could be construed as "demonizing" someone who disagrees with me?
Never mind. Forget it. I didn't even read your post. I shouldn't have said anything. [Fingers in ears]lalalalalalalalalalala[/FiE]
Enough already. It's my fault! Get over it!

That'll be $10, please.

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#47 Post by Rexer25 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:44 am

Rexer25 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote:
Rexer25 wrote:I don't expect a coherent answer, but I would like to know.

Why is it necessary to demonize those you disagree with?
Since I assume this was directed towards me, which of my comments above could be construed as "demonizing" someone who disagrees with me?
Never mind. Forget it. I didn't even read your post. I shouldn't have said anything. [Fingers in ears]lalalalalalalalalalala[/FiE]
ANd it was my fault for doing so.
Enough already. It's my fault! Get over it!

That'll be $10, please.

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ShamelessWeasel
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#48 Post by ShamelessWeasel » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:39 pm

TheCalvinator24 wrote:
SportsFan68 wrote:
silverscreenselect wrote: The next time I need to find out what's really going on in the state of Alaska, I'll consult your source, Alice King, the librarian of Hilton Head Island.
LOL! I looked a little bit for that E-mail that got forwarded around.

Anyway, as many sources as Cal can find saying False! I can find an equal number saying True!
I tell you what. You find one credible quote from that Wasilla Librarian saying that Palin tried to have books banned, and I'll believe it.

Also, the claim that Palin tried to fire her because of the alleged book banning is an example of a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
You probably won't believe this either

http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/20 ... 155484.txt
Editor's note: This story first ran in the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman Dec. 18, 1996. It has been typeset and posted here to accommodate numerous requests for the story from media worldwide and curious individuals. Please note that not at any time were any books ever banned from the Wasilla city library.

In the wake of strong reactions from the city's library director to inquiries about censorship, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin on Monday was taking pains to explain her questions about censoring library material were “rhetorical.”

Library Director Mary Ellen Emmons last week said Palin broached the subject with her on two occasions in October - once Palin was elected mayor Oct. 1 but before she took office on Oct. 14, and again in more detail on Monday, Oct. 28. Besides heading the Wasilla City Library, Emmons is also president of the Alaska Library Association.

The issue became public last Wednesday, when Palin brought it up during an interview about the now-defunct Liquor task Force. Palin used the library topic as an example of discussions with her department heads about understanding and following administration agendas. Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship.

Emmons drew a clear distinction Saturday between the nature of Palin's inquiries and an established book-challenge policy in place in Wasilla, and in most public libraries.

“I'm not trying to suppress anyone's views,” Emmons said. “But I told her (Palin) clearly, I will fight anyone who tries to dictate what books can go on the library shelves.”

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silverscreenselect
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#49 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:53 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
TheCalvinator24 wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:As far as I know, it's undisputed that at a minimum, Mayor Palin asked the librarian her reaction to the idea of banning books. I'm not aware that there was any suggestion the subject had come up in the past. Mayor Palin's question was wholly inappropriate.

It may be true that there's no smoking gun. But the circumstantial evidence of a wholly inappropriate question followed by a quickly rescinded termination letter is strong circumstantial evidence. --Bob
First, it is disputed that Palin asked the Librarian "her reaction to the idea of banning books."

Second, even if she had, why is the question "wholly inappropriate"?
Because when it comes out of the blue and is asked of a librarian with no history of any interest in banning books, it's clearly code for "Would you ban books if I told you to?" At a minimum, that's an obvious way to understand the question and if Mayor Palin actually had some other reason to ask that question, the burden is on her to persuasively explain that reason. --Bob
Palin has explained it. She indicated that she had received comments or suggestions from people about the possibly burning books and she asked the librarian to find out what the policy was.

Palin did try to fire the librarian shortly after Palin took office, along with the police chief and several other city officials. Wasilla is a small town and her ideas for the city's government conflicted with those of the incumbent whom she defeated. It's by no means uncommon for a new administration to bring in new personnel, especially when she was on record as disagreeing with how the town was being run (and her electoral victory could be construed as the public's approval of her decision as to how the town should be run).

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Bob78164
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#50 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:31 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Bob78164 wrote:
TheCalvinator24 wrote: First, it is disputed that Palin asked the Librarian "her reaction to the idea of banning books."

Second, even if she had, why is the question "wholly inappropriate"?
Because when it comes out of the blue and is asked of a librarian with no history of any interest in banning books, it's clearly code for "Would you ban books if I told you to?" At a minimum, that's an obvious way to understand the question and if Mayor Palin actually had some other reason to ask that question, the burden is on her to persuasively explain that reason. --Bob
Palin has explained it. She indicated that she had received comments or suggestions from people about the possibly burning books and she asked the librarian to find out what the policy was.
This account is flatly contradicted by the contemporaneous story linked above by ShamelessWeasel (which quotes the librarian in question). And I've never seen it offered anywhere, by Palin or anyone else with knowledge. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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