Obama the Community Organizer

[wintergreen48]

Palin's already been caught lying. Why do you trust her?

Ok, Bob here's your chance to go on the record, Tell us the words of the lie and when she told it.

"I said, 'Thanks but no thanks.'" Many times.

Man, I wish the DNC would get its talking points straight. I assume that this is in reference to her opposition/support for the Bridge to Nowhere. Some of you guys are working off a set of talking points that says she is lying because she claims to have opposed it, when it fact she first supported it and only opposed it when it became politically popular to do so because it was so ridiculous (that's probably the sheet you are reading from, Bob). But there is another set of talking points that says she never had any role at all, that the project was dead (or 'defunded' or whatever) before she ever became governor, in which case she she would not have had an opportunity to support or oppose it-- it was already off the table before she was ever in a position to do anything at all.

It's fine if y'all want to think that she is lying about her history, the way Joe Biden has done constantly over the last thirty years, but could you at least get together and come to some agreement about where she is lying?

[MarleysGh0st]

Ok, Bob here's your chance to go on the record, Tell us the words of the lie and when she told it.

"I said, 'Thanks but no thanks.'" Many times.

Man, I wish the DNC would get its talking points straight. I assume that this is in reference to her opposition/support for the Bridge to Nowhere. Some of you guys are working off a set of talking points that says she is lying because she claims to have opposed it, when it fact she first supported it and only opposed it when it became politically popular to do so because it was so ridiculous (that's probably the sheet you are reading from, Bob). But there is another set of talking points that says she never had any role at all, that the project was dead (or 'defunded' or whatever) before she ever became governor, in which case she she would not have had an opportunity to support or oppose it-- it was already off the table before she was ever in a position to do anything at all.

It's fine if y'all want to think that she is lying about her history, the way Joe Biden has done constantly over the last thirty years, but could you at least get together and come to some agreement about where she is lying?

I'm not on any talking points distribution list, but I did ask for clarification of these points last week. Travis was the one person to respond, with, "It's true."

I know I heard Governor Palin use the "thanks but no thanks" line in her acceptance speech last week. Can anyone explain--not with talking points but with facts--how that was truthful?

[silverscreenselect]

Ok, Bob here's your chance to go on the record, Tell us the words of the lie and when she told it.

"I said, 'Thanks but no thanks.'" Many times.

Man, I wish the DNC would get its talking points straight. I assume that this is in reference to her opposition/support for the Bridge to Nowhere. Some of you guys are working off a set of talking points that says she is lying because she claims to have opposed it, when it fact she first supported it and only opposed it when it became politically popular to do so because it was so ridiculous (that's probably the sheet you are reading from, Bob). But there is another set of talking points that says she never had any role at all, that the project was dead (or 'defunded' or whatever) before she ever became governor, in which case she she would not have had an opportunity to support or oppose it-- it was already off the table before she was ever in a position to do anything at all.

It's fine if y'all want to think that she is lying about her history, the way Joe Biden has done constantly over the last thirty years, but could you at least get together and come to some agreement about where she is lying?

Apparently, both the Alaska Democratic Party and the New York Times credit Palin with stopping the Bridge to Nowhere, at least they did until they realized it could be used as a political talking point.

http://tinyurl.com/5kv9hf

http://tinyurl.com/5o57cc

And it should be noted that Obama and Biden both voted for the Bridge to Nowhere, and Obama has voted for a lot of other earmarks for the people in Illinois.

The more the press keeps going after Palin with untruths, half truths, unprovable accusations everything but the kitchen sink, the more the public is going to turn in her favor. McCain is already polling quite well among independents and these attacks will just help things. McCain/Palin don't have to disprove every single accusation. All they need to do is shoot down a couple of them and the public will tune the entire witch hunt out. And every day the media and Democrats spend going after Palin instead of pressing their points on the issues, the better it is for McCain.

If the election boils down to the character of Sarah Palin, the Republicans will win easily. And that's even assuming they don't retaliate by dredging up Obama's connections and past once again.

[MarleysGh0st]

Apparently, both the Alaska Democratic Party and the New York Times credit Palin with stopping the Bridge to Nowhere, at least they did until they realized it could be used as a political talking point.

The NY Times article you linked to says:

Gov. Sarah Palin ordered state transportation officials to abandon the ''bridge to nowhere'' project that became a nationwide symbol of federal pork-barrel spending.

Now, I'm trying to understand this. Congress allocated money in an earmark for the bridge. Then opposition to the earmark arose and they cancelled the earmark? In 2005? But they allowed Alaska to keep all of the money to spend on transportation projects as they say fit? And Alaska continued to partially fund the bridge project until Governor Palin stopped the project in 2007? Fine.

But Alaska is still keeping the money?

If your daughter begged you for money for a car, then decided she didn't need a new car anyway, but she kept the money, would that be "Thanks but no thanks"?

The Senate Conservatives Fund link seems to refer to the same circumstances.

[Bob Juch]

Ok, Bob here's your chance to go on the record, Tell us the words of the lie and when she told it.

"I said, 'Thanks but no thanks.'" Many times.

Man, I wish the DNC would get its talking points straight. I assume that this is in reference to her opposition/support for the Bridge to Nowhere. Some of you guys are working off a set of talking points that says she is lying because she claims to have opposed it, when it fact she first supported it and only opposed it when it became politically popular to do so because it was so ridiculous (that's probably the sheet you are reading from, Bob). But there is another set of talking points that says she never had any role at all, that the project was dead (or 'defunded' or whatever) before she ever became governor, in which case she she would not have had an opportunity to support or oppose it-- it was already off the table before she was ever in a position to do anything at all.

It's fine if y'all want to think that she is lying about her history, the way Joe Biden has done constantly over the last thirty years, but could you at least get together and come to some agreement about where she is lying?

Don't denigrate me by saying I'm reading from a list someone fed me. I'm a very independent thinker in case you haven't noticed.

Palin never said, "Thanks but no thanks." She was all for the bridges until Congress cut off federal funds.

[TheCalvinator24]

I would rather have Governor Palin as President than Senator Obama. And I sure as heck would rather have Senator McCain. ...



I believe that Governor Palin is ready. Only time and certain circumstances would prove me right or wrong. ...

I think I understand why you've concluded that she's ready. She might very well be the last person ever to be on a major-party ticket who agrees with you that the world is flat.

Only time and circumstances would prove me right or wrong.

Specious ad hominem arguments do nothing for your credibility.

[TheCalvinator24]

You must not know as many first-rate actors or speechmakers as I do.

OK, name a million of them!

How many people speak English as their first language? Let's just say it's around 400 million.

Give me a randomly selected group of 400 hundred people and I can find somebody in there that I can train up to deliver that speech before that same wildly enthusiastic crowd as well as she did.

If I can't, then I'll find 2 people out of the next group to make up for that one.

Oh no, no, no, no, no. You initially said "in this country." so you can't go to the whole world of English-speakers.

Are you going to manufacture a phony resume to give your hypothetical speaker credibility with that audience? You also didn't initially tie the claim to the enthusiasm of the audience. you were talking solely about her speaking ability.

Plus, I still don't think you could meet your own stated (and amended) criteria if given only 5 days (which is what Palin had).

[silverscreenselect]

1) As a candidate for governor, certainly not in possession of all the facts concerning highway costs and all the other budgetary considerations for the State of Alaska, Palin favored continued funding. It was never a major campaign issue; her support has been called lukewarm.

2) As a governor, Palin saw what the Bridge was truly worth, so she stopped the project and diverted the money from a useless bridge to projects that had more value for the citizens of Alaska.

3) What Palin represented sound fiscal judgment. As a candidate, she may have said one thing based on her knowledge of the facts at the time. As a governor, with actual responsibility and access to all the facts, she took action that saved the taxpayers of Alaska money (presumably the projects the money is being spent on would have had to be completed using other state tax funds instead if she hadn't shut down the Bridge.

4) The money would not have gone back to the taxpayers if Alaska rejected it; it would have gone to someone else's pet project.

5) She showed more responsibility and good judgment than Alaska's Republican Congressional delegation or Biden and Obama, all of whom voted for the earmarks to begin with.

[Bob Juch]

1) As a candidate for governor, certainly not in possession of all the facts concerning highway costs and all the other budgetary considerations for the State of Alaska, Palin favored continued funding. It was never a major campaign issue; her support has been called lukewarm.

2) As a governor, Palin saw what the Bridge was truly worth, so she stopped the project and diverted the money from a useless bridge to projects that had more value for the citizens of Alaska.

3) What Palin represented sound fiscal judgment. As a candidate, she may have said one thing based on her knowledge of the facts at the time. As a governor, with actual responsibility and access to all the facts, she took action that saved the taxpayers of Alaska money (presumably the projects the money is being spent on would have had to be completed using other state tax funds instead if she hadn't shut down the Bridge.

4) The money would not have gone back to the taxpayers if Alaska rejected it; it would have gone to someone else's pet project.

5) She showed more responsibility and good judgment than Alaska's Republican Congressional delegation or Biden and Obama, all of whom voted for the earmarks to begin with.

You are wrong. Palin wan not against the project until Congress cut of the funds. Palin never rejected any Federal funds - ever - for anything.

[wbtravis007]

I would rather have Governor Palin as President than Senator Obama. And I sure as heck would rather have Senator McCain. ...



I believe that Governor Palin is ready. Only time and certain circumstances would prove me right or wrong. ...

I think I understand why you've concluded that she's ready. She might very well be the last person ever to be on a major-party ticket who agrees with you that the world is flat.

Only time and circumstances would prove me right or wrong.

Specious ad hominem arguments do nothing for your credibility.

Oh. Sorry. I thought you were the one who said that God made the world flat but then made it seem like it wasn't, as kind of a joke on us. Or something like that.

I guess it was somebody else.

As for my credibility, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I get mixed up about stuff.

I know one thing for sure, though: Sarah Palin doesn't believe in the North Pole.

[wbtravis007]

viewtopic.php?p=99153&highlight=#99153

[wbtravis007]

OK, name a million of them!

How many people speak English as their first language? Let's just say it's around 400 million.

Give me a randomly selected group of 400 hundred people and I can find somebody in there that I can train up to deliver that speech before that same wildly enthusiastic crowd as well as she did.

If I can't, then I'll find 2 people out of the next group to make up for that one.

Oh no, no, no, no, no. You initially said "in this country." so you can't go to the whole world of English-speakers.

Are you going to manufacture a phony resume to give your hypothetical speaker credibility with that audience? You also didn't initially tie the claim to the enthusiasm of the audience. you were talking solely about her speaking ability.

Plus, I still don't think you could meet your own stated (and amended) criteria if given only 5 days (which is what Palin had).

ICM!

[Spock]

It is neat how this thread morphed into an Obama versus Palin Thread.

That follows the general trend of the main campaign.

That can't be good for Obama.

[Beebs52]

bbk said:

So, are you actually going to vote in this election?

Any time wasted voting would just cut into the time that I could otherwise spend popping off.

Et voila.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

I was gone most of yesteday, and I almost hate to revive this thread, the this is what I found on Palin and the Bridge to Nowhere


Quote from Palin’s Speech

I told the Congress "thanks, but no thanks," for that Bridge to Nowhere.

If our state wanted a bridge, we'd build it ourselves.

1996 Palin elected mayor of Wasilla.

On Oct. 22, 2006, the Anchorage Daily News asked Palin and the other candidates, “Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?”

Her response: “Yes. I would like to see Alaska’s infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now — while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.”

Palin’s support of the earmark for the bridge was applauded by the late Lew Williams Jr., the retired Ketchikan Daily News publisher who wrote columns on the topic.

Williams wrote on Oct. 29, 2006, that Palin was the only gubernatorial candidate that year who consistently supported the Gravina Island Bridge, the Knik Arm Bridge and improvements to the Parks Highway

2006 elected governor of Alaska sworn in 12/04/06

12/15/06

Palin’s budget doesn’t include money for mega projects that she supported as a candidate, such as the controversial Gravina Island bridge in Ketchikan.

Asked if she’d changed her mind about the project, Palin said she will hash out where the bridge fits on the state’s list of priorities with the help of the Legislature and public. “We have a limited pot of money of course, and we need to make wise, sensible choices,” she said.

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/104082

Palin’s Transition team prepared a report in December 2006, released in February 2007

Both the Juneau road and the Ketchikan Gravina Island Bridge project, known by its detractors as the "Bridge to Nowhere," drew criticism in the report. "Statewide, these two projects are seen as a severe drain on resources that would otherwise be assigned to heavily used commercial and passenger routes," the report said.

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/020 ... 6003.shtml


September 21, 2007 Press Release by Palin's Office

Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer,” said Governor Palin. “Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it’s clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island,” Governor Palin added. “Much of the public’s attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here. But we need to focus on what we can do, rather than fight over what has happened.” The Department of Transportation has approximately $36 million in federal funds that will become available for other projects with the shutdown of the Gravina Island bridge project. Governor Palin has directed Commissioner Leo von Scheben to review transportation projects statewide to prepare a list of possible uses for the funds, while the department also looks for a more affordable answer for Gravina Island access.

So it looks like Palin made comments favorable to the BTN while a candidate. During her transition to office, the project was reviewed and rejected. The project was finally killed in September 2007. She took some heat in Alaska for her stance on the bridge. I can't find any documentation of any communication with Congress. I wouldn't call her speech a lie.