Obama the Community Organizer

[gotribego26]

Obama's worldview is formed by a place where indivduals depend upon the government for everything, including basic plumbing.

Well if you would like we can have a totally separate discussion about whether public housing should exist.

But in this case the Chicago Housing Authority was the landlord, and tenants should have a reasonable expectation of operable plumbing. So the giovernment is the one to fix their tiolets.

I've owned two rental propoerties in my life - in both of them I had to hire a plumber to "fix" a tiolet that neither I or my tenant was qualified to fix.

Remember Plumbing is harder than teaching.

[Beebs52]

Obama's worldview is formed by a place where indivduals depend upon the government for everything, including basic plumbing.

Well if you would like we can have a totally separate discussion about whether public housing should exist.

But in this case the Chicago Housing Authority was the landlord, and tenants should have a reasonable expectation of operable plumbing. So the giovernment is the one to fix their tiolets.

I've owned two rental propoerties in my life - in both of them I had to hire a plumber to "fix" a tiolet that neither I or my tenant was qualified to fix.

Remember Plumbing is harder than teaching.

You're a bad man. Bad man. Or you're a bad plumber like the rest of us...

[mrkelley23]

I'm in agreement with Spock's basic point, being the Heinlein fan that I am.

But, as with public schools, Chicago is an exception to most rules....

[wbtravis007]

I'm wondering what you have seen or heard from Obama along the lines of a claim that his work was either particularly difficult or provided executive experience.

I don't know if Obama himself has stated such a claim. Some of his supporters have, though. Detractors of Sarah Palin were quick to say (I'm paraphrasing), "She doesn't have enough executive experience to be vice president." Her supporters answered, "She has more executive experience than Obama." The Obama camp responded (and, yes, I'm still paraphrasing,) "Obama's time as a community organizer provided him with executive experience." Never mind that they were trying to say that their presidential candidate was nearly as well qualified, in that sense, as the opposition's vice presidential candidate, but I thought it was a weak argument under any circumstances.

Nevertheless, as Frank Tangredi pointed out with eloquence, history has proven that such experience is not the most important factor in whether any individual will make a good president. Still, this thread was about community organizing, so that is the specific topic I was addressing.

Okay. I guess that we agree, then, that all this "executive experience" stuff is riidiculous. There are tens of millions of people who have more of that than any of these four.

If I had to guess, I'd say that at least a few million people in this country could have delivered the speech that Palin gave as well as she did.

Obama's been in the crucible for the last couple of years, at least. That says a lot.

She's in a cocoon, at least for now.

I'm going to be lazy here and just quote myself from last week:

Well, now I've seen her and heard her I can say with certainty that if she had sought any party's nomination for President she wouldn't have gotten very far.

Not so with Obama.

I think that a lot of people adopted the notion that Obama is an "empty suit" (or whatever) for a lot of different reasons. I think that many of those people have continued to assume that that's true, to the extent that they just quit paying attention to him -- not wanting to watch the Democrats' convention and what not.

I have seen a lot of those people dismiss people who have paid close attention to this and support Obama as "Kool-Aid drinkers" (or whatever).

Talk about arrogant! And insulting.

I wish that the people who fit that description would consider the possibility that those of us who have paid close attention and drawn a different conclusion about the man than they have are seeing something that they haven't seen, for whatever reason, and aren't just being hoodwinked.

I don't drink Kool-Aid. I just think that it would be good for the country to elect Obama President.

And, I think he's ready.

People are comparing those of us who have come to that conclusion to people who know little about Palin but would say that she's as ready to be President as Obama is, and saying there's no difference between us.

Talk about dumb!

You start thinking some people are kind of smart, and then see stuff like that.

I swannee.

[Beebs52]

I'm wondering what you have seen or heard from Obama along the lines of a claim that his work was either particularly difficult or provided executive experience.

I don't know if Obama himself has stated such a claim. Some of his supporters have, though. Detractors of Sarah Palin were quick to say (I'm paraphrasing), "She doesn't have enough executive experience to be vice president." Her supporters answered, "She has more executive experience than Obama." The Obama camp responded (and, yes, I'm still paraphrasing,) "Obama's time as a community organizer provided him with executive experience." Never mind that they were trying to say that their presidential candidate was nearly as well qualified, in that sense, as the opposition's vice presidential candidate, but I thought it was a weak argument under any circumstances.

Nevertheless, as Frank Tangredi pointed out with eloquence, history has proven that such experience is not the most important factor in whether any individual will make a good president. Still, this thread was about community organizing, so that is the specific topic I was addressing.

Okay. I guess that we agree, then, that all this "executive experience" stuff is riidiculous. There are tens of millions of people who have more of that than any of these four.

If I had to guess, I'd say that at least a few million people in this country could have delivered the speech that Palin gave as well as she did.

I think that anybody who thinks that I'm wrong about that should get out more.

Obama's been in the crucible for the last couple of years, at least. That says a lot.

She's in a cocoon, at least for now.

I'm going to be lazy here an just quote myself from last week here:

Well, now I've seen her and heard her I can say with certainty that if she had sought any party's nomination for President she wouldn't have gotten very far.

Not so with Obama.

I think that a lot of people adopted the notion that Obama is an "empty suit" (or whatever) for a lot of different reasons. I think that many of those people have continued to assume that that's true, to the extent that they just quit paying attention to him -- not wanting to watch the Democrats' convention and what not.

I have seen a lot of those people dismiss people who have paid close attention to this and support Obama as "Kool-Aid drinkers" (or whatever).

Talk about arrogant! And insulting.

I wish that the people who fit that description would consider the possibility that those of us who have paid close attention and drawn a different conclusion about the man than they have are seeing something that they haven't seen, for whatever reason, and aren't just being hoodwinked.

I don't drink Kool-Aid. I just think that it would be good for the country to elect Obama President.

And, I think he's ready.

People are comparing those of us who have come to that conclusion to people who know little about Palin but would say that she's as ready to be President as Obama is, and saying there's no difference between us.

Talk about dumb!

You start thinking some people are kind of smart, and then see stuff like that.

I swannee.

So, are you actually going to vote in this election?

[TheCalvinator24]

I would rather have Governor Palin as President than Senator Obama. And I sure as heck would rather have Senator McCain.

I would also rather have Senator Clinton, Senator Biden, heck, even Senator Edwards. (I'm not willing to say I'd rather have Governor Romney because I can't support anybody I don't trust)

I believe that Governor Palin is ready. Only time and certain circumstances would prove me right or wrong.

And no, there aren't a few million people in America who could have delivered her speech just as well. I think you are underestimating the skill and gifts that are necessary to make such a speech, particularly in such a high profile situation.

[tlynn78]

Skippy wouldn't be in such a twitch about Sarah if she was buying her thongs from him.

t.

[Beebs52]

Skippy wouldn't be in such a twitch about Sarah if she was buying her thongs from him.

t.

Those damn capitalists!

[wbtravis007]

I would rather have Governor Palin as President than Senator Obama. And I sure as heck would rather have Senator McCain.

I would also rather have Senator Clinton, Senator Biden, heck, even Senator Edwards. (I'm not willing to say I'd rather have Governor Romney because I can't support anybody I don't trust)

I believe that Governor Palin is ready. Only time and certain circumstances would prove me right or wrong.

And no, there aren't a few million people in America who could have delivered her speech just as well. I think you are underestimating the skill and gifts that are necessary to make such a speech, particularly in such a high profile situation.

Cal, Cal, Cal.

You, of all people, should know very well that there is more talent out there than there are roles.

If y'all really don't believe me, I think that y'all should get out more.

[TheCalvinator24]

I would rather have Governor Palin as President than Senator Obama. And I sure as heck would rather have Senator McCain.

I would also rather have Senator Clinton, Senator Biden, heck, even Senator Edwards. (I'm not willing to say I'd rather have Governor Romney because I can't support anybody I don't trust)

I believe that Governor Palin is ready. Only time and certain circumstances would prove me right or wrong.

And no, there aren't a few million people in America who could have delivered her speech just as well. I think you are underestimating the skill and gifts that are necessary to make such a speech, particularly in such a high profile situation.

Cal, Cal, Cal. You, of all people, should know very well that there is more talent out there than there are roles.

If y'all really don't believe me, I think that y'all should get out more.

It's not about playing a "role."

Very few actors could have given that speech.

[wbtravis007]

This is from Wikipedia:

After four years in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988 as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale) on Chicago's far South Side.[12][14] During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization in Altgeld Gardens.[15] Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute.[16] ...

As the article I quoted indicated, Obama's "accomplishments" didn't help improve the lives of the community very much, in ways such as finding jobs or getting rid of the asbestos in their apartments.

Contrast it to Sarah Palin's accomplishments as mayor of Wasilla in expanding the city's population and tax base, getting a sports complex built and essentially turning a stagnant bedroom community into a prominent, growing suburb of Anchorage.

Well, we'll all have different interpretaions of his life before Havard Law School, I guess.

I'd like to know more about Govenor Palin.

[wbtravis007]

I would rather have Governor Palin as President than Senator Obama. And I sure as heck would rather have Senator McCain.

I would also rather have Senator Clinton, Senator Biden, heck, even Senator Edwards. (I'm not willing to say I'd rather have Governor Romney because I can't support anybody I don't trust)

I believe that Governor Palin is ready. Only time and certain circumstances would prove me right or wrong.

And no, there aren't a few million people in America who could have delivered her speech just as well. I think you are underestimating the skill and gifts that are necessary to make such a speech, particularly in such a high profile situation.

Cal, Cal, Cal. You, of all people, should know very well that there is more talent out there than there are roles.

If y'all really don't believe me, I think that y'all should get out more.

It's not about playing a "role."

Very few actors could have given that speech.

Well, we will just have to disgree.

You must not know as many first-rate actors or speechmakers as I do.

[Estonut]

You must not know as many first-rate actors or speechmakers as I do.

OK, name a million of them!

[silverscreenselect]

The only qualities that Obama has shown so far in the campaign are an ability to give a moving pre-written speech off a teleprompter and the ability to deflect serious inquiry into his background, his accomplishments, his connections, and his beliefs. These are the qualities of a successful con artist, not what one would want for President of the United States.

Obama's record as "community organizer," shows an initial ability to get people excited, followed by an inability to follow through and get any sort of meaningful results. Talking to the powers that be about getting retraining for one's "community" is not the same as actually getting the people retrained and getting them new jobs. There are plenty of community organizers who have been able to help their community; Obama's main accomplishment seems to have been to have used his position to make initial contacts with Jeremiah Wright and others to get his political career started.

And then he moved on to a political career marked more for the connections he made that would move him along rather than actually getting anything accomplished. Obama's only accomplishment, at each stage of his career, has been the advancement of Obama's political career.

For the more liberal members of this Bored who think Obama is going to get some meaningful healthcare reform or other similar policies enacted, does his record indicate the sort of person who will be able to get that done? Does he sound like the person who's going to get a comprehensive energy policy in place?

And for anyone, is he the type of person you'd want in charge of the army or engaging in nuts and bolts negotiations with Putin or the Iranians?

Being mayor of Wasilla is certainly not the same as being President, but the careers of most successful business people are marked by a resume that starts with success on a small scale, leading to success on increasingly larger scales. Palin's accomplishments as mayor far outweigh a man who "was constantly having to scale back his objectives as one project after another faltered."

Do you want a president who has one project after another faltering?

[earendel]

The only qualities that Obama has shown so far in the campaign are an ability to give a moving pre-written speech off a teleprompter and the ability to deflect serious inquiry into his background, his accomplishments, his connections, and his beliefs. These are the qualities of a successful con artist, not what one would want for President of the United States.

Obama's record as "community organizer," shows an initial ability to get people excited, followed by an inability to follow through and get any sort of meaningful results. Talking to the powers that be about getting retraining for one's "community" is not the same as actually getting the people retrained and getting them new jobs. There are plenty of community organizers who have been able to help their community; Obama's main accomplishment seems to have been to have used his position to make initial contacts with Jeremiah Wright and others to get his political career started.

And then he moved on to a political career marked more for the connections he made that would move him along rather than actually getting anything accomplished. Obama's only accomplishment, at each stage of his career, has been the advancement of Obama's political career.

For the more liberal members of this Bored who think Obama is going to get some meaningful healthcare reform or other similar policies enacted, does his record indicate the sort of person who will be able to get that done? Does he sound like the person who's going to get a comprehensive energy policy in place?

And for anyone, is he the type of person you'd want in charge of the army or engaging in nuts and bolts negotiations with Putin or the Iranians?

Being mayor of Wasilla is certainly not the same as being President, but the careers of most successful business people are marked by a resume that starts with success on a small scale, leading to success on increasingly larger scales. Palin's accomplishments as mayor far outweigh a man who "was constantly having to scale back his objectives as one project after another faltered."

Do you want a president who has one project after another faltering?

Hypothetically speaking, SSS, would you be making this same argument if Hillary had been the nominee? After all, where is HER "executive experience"?

[Spock]

Obama's worldview is formed by a place where indivduals depend upon the government for everything, including basic plumbing.

Well if you would like we can have a totally separate discussion about whether public housing should exist.

But in this case the Chicago Housing Authority was the landlord, and tenants should have a reasonable expectation of operable plumbing. So the giovernment is the one to fix their tiolets.

I've owned two rental propoerties in my life - in both of them I had to hire a plumber to "fix" a tiolet that neither I or my tenant was qualified to fix.

Remember Plumbing is harder than teaching.

The apparent failure of the Chicago Housing Authority to keep pplumbing operable,one again is not an argument for keeping institutions like that in place.

To steal from Sprots tag line-

It is obvious that those who foster a dependency mindset (namely Barack Obama) among tenants of places like the Chicago Housing Authority-are not thinking out to the 7th generation-especially since we have 3 or 4 generations of data showing what the results of that mindset are.

[Bob Juch]

I would rather have Governor Palin as President than Senator Obama. And I sure as heck would rather have Senator McCain.

I would also rather have Senator Clinton, Senator Biden, heck, even Senator Edwards. (I'm not willing to say I'd rather have Governor Romney because I can't support anybody I don't trust)

I believe that Governor Palin is ready. Only time and certain circumstances would prove me right or wrong.

And no, there aren't a few million people in America who could have delivered her speech just as well. I think you are underestimating the skill and gifts that are necessary to make such a speech, particularly in such a high profile situation.

Palin's already been caught lying. Why do you trust her?

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Palin's already been caught lying. Why do you trust her?

Ok, Bob here's your chance to go on the record, Tell us the words of the lie and when she told it.

[Bob Juch]

Palin's already been caught lying. Why do you trust her?

Ok, Bob here's your chance to go on the record, Tell us the words of the lie and when she told it.

"I said, 'Thanks but no thanks.'" Many times.

[wbtravis007]

The only qualities that Obama has shown so far in the campaign are an ability to give a moving pre-written speech off a teleprompter and the ability to deflect serious inquiry into his background, his accomplishments, his connections, and his beliefs. These are the qualities of a successful con artist, not what one would want for President of the United States.

Obama's record as "community organizer," shows an initial ability to get people excited, followed by an inability to follow through and get any sort of meaningful results. Talking to the powers that be about getting retraining for one's "community" is not the same as actually getting the people retrained and getting them new jobs. There are plenty of community organizers who have been able to help their community; Obama's main accomplishment seems to have been to have used his position to make initial contacts with Jeremiah Wright and others to get his political career started.

And then he moved on to a political career marked more for the connections he made that would move him along rather than actually getting anything accomplished. Obama's only accomplishment, at each stage of his career, has been the advancement of Obama's political career.

For the more liberal members of this Bored who think Obama is going to get some meaningful healthcare reform or other similar policies enacted, does his record indicate the sort of person who will be able to get that done? Does he sound like the person who's going to get a comprehensive energy policy in place?

And for anyone, is he the type of person you'd want in charge of the army or engaging in nuts and bolts negotiations with Putin or the Iranians?

Being mayor of Wasilla is certainly not the same as being President, but the careers of most successful business people are marked by a resume that starts with success on a small scale, leading to success on increasingly larger scales. Palin's accomplishments as mayor far outweigh a man who "was constantly having to scale back his objectives as one project after another faltered."

Do you want a president who has one project after another faltering?

I feel your pain.

Nobody likes to lose to a "con artist," much less a "'community organizer'."

[wbtravis007]

I would rather have Governor Palin as President than Senator Obama. And I sure as heck would rather have Senator McCain. ...



I believe that Governor Palin is ready. Only time and certain circumstances would prove me right or wrong. ...

I think I understand why you've concluded that she's ready. She might very well be the last person ever to be on a major-party ticket who agrees with you that the world is flat.

Only time and circumstances would prove me right or wrong.

[wbtravis007]

Skippy wouldn't be in such a twitch about Sarah if she was buying her thongs from him.

t.

So far she hasn't answered our questions or provided us in some other manner sufficient information for us to determine whether she's qualified to wear our thongs.

And, although I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't take much to get me to twitch, I can honestly say that there's been no twitching so far.

That could change, of course.

[wbtravis007]

That wasn't a twitch.

It was just cough.

[wbtravis007]

bbk said:

So, are you actually going to vote in this election?

Any time wasted voting would just cut into the time that I could otherwise spend popping off.

[wbtravis007]

You must not know as many first-rate actors or speechmakers as I do.

OK, name a million of them!

How many people speak English as their first language? Let's just say it's around 400 million.

Give me a randomly selected group of 400 hundred people and I can find somebody in there that I can train up to deliver that speech before that same wildly enthusiastic crowd as well as she did.

If I can't, then I'll find 2 people out of the next group to make up for that one.