WWTBAM Bored

Incorrect question to a poorly worded answer. They are wrong and I’m interested to see what the fallout might be.

Sam got it right and was counted wrong. Score should be 1 game for each.

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:34 pm

Incorrect question to a poorly worded answer. They are wrong and I’m interested to see what the fallout might be.

Sam got it right and was counted wrong. Score should be 1 game for each.

I'm surprised that you didn't hear me scream at my TV set when this answer was revealed. As soon as I saw the clue, I knew what the answer was going to be, even though it wasn't correct.

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:34 pm

Incorrect question to a poorly worded answer. They are wrong and I’m interested to see what the fallout might be.

Sam got it right and was counted wrong. Score should be 1 game for each.

Yup, Sam was robbed.

tlynn78 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:58 am

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:34 pm

Incorrect question to a poorly worded answer. They are wrong and I’m interested to see what the fallout might be.

Sam got it right and was counted wrong. Score should be 1 game for each.

Yup, Sam was robbed.

Our feelings exactly. My cousin and I (both non-winners on Jeopardy) were messaging each other back and forth.

BiT posits a good question - we are interested in what the fallout might be as well. Or if there is any.

mellytu74 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:18 pm

tlynn78 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:58 am

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:34 pm

Incorrect question to a poorly worded answer. They are wrong and I’m interested to see what the fallout might be.

Sam got it right and was counted wrong. Score should be 1 game for each.

Yup, Sam was robbed.

Our feelings exactly. My cousin and I (both non-winners on Jeopardy) were messaging each other back and forth.

BiT posits a good question - we are interested in what the fallout might be as well. Or if there is any.

Here's the precise language of the clue: "Paul’s letter to them is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations."

Is there any disagreement that Hebrews is a New Testament epistle and that it has more Old Testament quotations than any other New Testament epistle? If it wasn't in fact written by Paul, then doesn't that mean that there is no fully correct response? In that case, I think they fall back to the "most correct" response, and it's at least defensible to say that Hebrews is correct. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:36 pm

mellytu74 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:18 pm

tlynn78 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:58 am

Yup, Sam was robbed.

Our feelings exactly. My cousin and I (both non-winners on Jeopardy) were messaging each other back and forth.

BiT posits a good question - we are interested in what the fallout might be as well. Or if there is any.

Here's the precise language of the clue: "Paul’s letter to them is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations."

Is there any disagreement that Hebrews is a New Testament epistle and that it has more Old Testament quotations than any other New Testament epistle? If it wasn't in fact written by Paul, then doesn't that mean that there is no fully correct response? In that case, I think they fall back to the "most correct" response, and it's at least defensible to say that Hebrews is correct. --Bob

But if there’s no correct response, there’s no correct response. Someone is very unlikely to know which epistle has the most Old Testament quotations. Someone might be able to deduce Hebrews because of Final Jeopardy uses that type of lateral thinking often, and such thinking would point to Hebrews.

On the other hand, if they know that Paul is typically not considered to be the author of that book, they immediately eliminate that answer and head for something else.

I was able to figure out both what they wanted but that also it was not correct.

Your approach would punish somebody for actually knowing something about the subject, and that seems unfair

The episode should be struck.

Bob78164 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:36 pm

mellytu74 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:18 pm

tlynn78 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:58 am

Yup, Sam was robbed.

Our feelings exactly. My cousin and I (both non-winners on Jeopardy) were messaging each other back and forth.

BiT posits a good question - we are interested in what the fallout might be as well. Or if there is any.

Here's the precise language of the clue: "Paul’s letter to them is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations."

Is there any disagreement that Hebrews is a New Testament epistle and that it has more Old Testament quotations than any other New Testament epistle? If it wasn't in fact written by Paul, then doesn't that mean that there is no fully correct response? In that case, I think they fall back to the "most correct" response, and it's at least defensible to say that Hebrews is correct. --Bob

What is the first word in the "answer"? It is "Paul's". Then followed by "letter to them". If he didn't write Hebrews the question can't be Hebrews. If he didn't write Hebrews the fully correct response is Romans.

Most studied Christians do not believe he wrote it. Had the answer been "The Epsitle to them..." then no doubt Hebrews is the correct response. Sam is probably somewhat knowledgeable about the Bible and gave the correct response with the knowlege that Paul did not write Hebrews.

There is no "most correct"reponse.

Weyoun wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:45 pm

Someone is very unlikely to know which epistle has the most Old Testament quotations.

Not hardly. Lots of folks actually study the Bible and know each book very well. My wife and myself included. Ear probably knew, too.

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:47 pm

Bob78164 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:36 pm

mellytu74 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:18 pm

Our feelings exactly. My cousin and I (both non-winners on Jeopardy) were messaging each other back and forth.

BiT posits a good question - we are interested in what the fallout might be as well. Or if there is any.

Here's the precise language of the clue: "Paul’s letter to them is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations."

Is there any disagreement that Hebrews is a New Testament epistle and that it has more Old Testament quotations than any other New Testament epistle? If it wasn't in fact written by Paul, then doesn't that mean that there is no fully correct response? In that case, I think they fall back to the "most correct" response, and it's at least defensible to say that Hebrews is correct. --Bob

What is the first word in the "answer"? It is "Paul's". Then followed by "letter to them". If he didn't write Hebrews the question can't be Hebrews. If he didn't write Hebrews the fully correct response is Romans.

Most studied Christians do not believe he wrote it. Had the answer been "The Epsitle to them..." then no doubt Hebrews is the correct response. Sam is probably somewhat knowledgeable about the Bible and gave the correct response with the knowlege that Paul did not write Hebrews.

There is no "most correct"reponse.

If Hebrews is an epistle that has more Old Testament quotations than does Romans, then Romans isn't a correct response because it's not the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations. That means there's no response that fits the entire clue. The argument would be that there is only one epistle (Hebrews) with the most Old Testament quotations, and there is at least some belief that it was written by Paul, so it's the "most correct" response.

And there's a reason I put scare quotes around "most correct" response. I'm aware that it's somewhat nonsensical. --Bob

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:50 pm

Weyoun wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:45 pm

Someone is very unlikely to know which epistle has the most Old Testament quotations.

Not hardly. Lots of folks actually study the Bible and know each book very well. My wife and myself included. Ear probably knew, too.

That’s a subset of people you know. I know such people also. Go back over the list of Jeopardy contestants of the last year and look at their demographics. Most of them are not knowing that.

Bob78164 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:57 pm

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:47 pm

Bob78164 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:36 pm

Here's the precise language of the clue: "Paul’s letter to them is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations."

Is there any disagreement that Hebrews is a New Testament epistle and that it has more Old Testament quotations than any other New Testament epistle? If it wasn't in fact written by Paul, then doesn't that mean that there is no fully correct response? In that case, I think they fall back to the "most correct" response, and it's at least defensible to say that Hebrews is correct. --Bob

What is the first word in the "answer"? It is "Paul's". Then followed by "letter to them". If he didn't write Hebrews the question can't be Hebrews. If he didn't write Hebrews the fully correct response is Romans.

Most studied Christians do not believe he wrote it. Had the answer been "The Epsitle to them..." then no doubt Hebrews is the correct response. Sam is probably somewhat knowledgeable about the Bible and gave the correct response with the knowlege that Paul did not write Hebrews.

There is no "most correct"reponse.

If Hebrews is an epistle that has more Old Testament quotations than does Romans, then Romans isn't a correct response because it's not the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotations. That means there's no response that fits the entire clue. The argument would be that there is only one epistle (Hebrews) with the most Old Testament quotations, and there is at least some belief that it was written by Paul, so it's the "most correct" response.

And there's a reason I put scare quotes around "most correct" response. I'm aware that it's somewhat nonsensical. --Bob

But that’s the other thing. There’s actually a reasonable debate by informed people on the Jeopardy board who are stating that Romans actually has more such quotations than Hebrews.

And some are adding that it’s really incorrect to call Hebrews an epistle based on its structure.

So it’s a flawed question on multiple levels.

Weyoun wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:18 pm

But that’s the other thing. There’s actually a reasonable debate by informed people on the Jeopardy board who are stating that Romans actually has more such quotations than Hebrews.

And some are adding that it’s really incorrect to call Hebrews an epistle based on its structure.

So it’s a flawed question on multiple levels.

Exactly so. Paul didn't write it, it isn't an epistle, and the number of quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures is debated - are they quotes or allusions?

In the end

Spoiler

it cost Sam $50,000 as he should have taken 2nd place.

Congrats to Amy on the win.

According to the "Inside Jeopardy" podcast, ...there's only 1 New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotes and ii is Hebrews. This was said by Sarah, one of the hosts of the podcast. She said that Michael Harris was the head researcher; he and the staff reached out to "a seminarian" for extra assistance on the clue. They also consulted a KJV Bible, which had "Paul's Letter to the Hebrews" as the title. I find it hard to believe both of these statements - a seminarian would (should) know better.

earendel wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:35 am

According to the "Inside Jeopardy" podcast, ...there's only 1 New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament quotes and ii is Hebrews. This was said by Sarah, one of the hosts of the podcast. She said that Michael Harris was the head researcher; he and the staff reached out to "a seminarian" for extra assistance on the clue. They also consulted a KJV Bible, which had "Paul's Letter to the Hebrews" as the title. I find it hard to believe both of these statements - a seminarian would (should) know better.

I know you agree with me but that was not the question. The question was which of Paul's NT epistles had the most OT quotes. There is the disagreement on if Hebrews was "Paul's" and even, as you pointed out, if it is an epistle.

A Google of "Paul's letter to the Hebrews" returns nothing saying it is from Paul until result number 5 which is from the Morman site (not really a site I'd go to for biblical research). The next reference is a Catholicism site, so I assume Catholics still consider Paul as the author of Hebrews.

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:10 am

I know you agree with me but that was not the question. The question was which of Paul's NT epistles had the most OT quotes.

That wasn't the clue. The clue, which I quoted above, asked for the New Testament epistle that had the most Old Testament quotes. The clue provided additional information that the correct response was "Paul's letter," but the reference to Paul was not part of the call of the clue.

If Paul did not in fact write Hebrews and Hebrews is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament references, then there is no correct response. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:20 am

BackInTex wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:10 am

I know you agree with me but that was not the question. The question was which of Paul's NT epistles had the most OT quotes.

That wasn't the clue. The clue, which I quoted above, asked for the New Testament epistle that had the most Old Testament quotes. The clue provided additional information that the correct response was "Paul's letter," but the reference to Paul was not part of the call of the clue.

If Paul did not in fact write Hebrews and Hebrews is the New Testament epistle with the most Old Testament references, then there is no correct response. --Bob

Ken Jennings wrote:Mona Lisa, what is your response to today's Final J answer?

Mona Lisa Vito wrote:There is no response.

Ken Jennings wrote:And why is that?

BackInTex to Ear wrote:Watch this...

Mona Lisa Vito wrote:It's a bullshit answer

Ken Jennings wrote:And why is it a , um, bullshit answer?

Mona Lisa Vito wrote:Because Paul didn't write the epistle with the most Old Testament references. The epistle with the most references to the Old Testament is Hebrews, and NO ONE, and I mean no one, knows who actually wrote Hebrews. But, if Paul did write Hebrews, then the drop dead correct response is Hebrews

Isn't an epistle the same as a letter?

All this arguing about mythology.

Bob Juch wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:09 pm

Isn't an epistle the same as a letter?

Yes, and Hebrews is neither. Or, rather, it doesn't conform to the style of letter-writing commonplace in the 1st century.