Values voters and Roy Moore

[flockofseagulls104]

Wow, hypocrisy is in full parade mode!

And that is the point of a full Senate ethics committee investigation, something Republicans are loathe to do when one of their own is accused. Franken didn't accuse the woman of being a liar or making things up and neither did anyone in a position of power in the Democratic party.

If you look at the way the Democrats have reacted to the Franken accusation and the way the Republicans (with the laudable exception of McCain) reacted to the Moore (and before that Trump) accusations, you'll see the difference between night and day.

While BJ is posting transcripts from MSNBC plants, you are saying that an ethics probe by a bunch of other guys many of whom probably have their own skeletons in the closet, is going to clear up everything.

OK, sure, SSS. No hypocrisy here.

[BackInTex]

Franken didn't accuse the woman of being a liar or making things up and neither did anyone in a position of power in the Democratic party.

One shouldn't when the accuser is telling the truth. What is so odd about that?

[Bob Juch]

Franken didn't accuse the woman of being a liar or making things up and neither did anyone in a position of power in the Democratic party.

One shouldn't when the accuser is telling the truth. What is so odd about that?

Nothing, unless you're a Republican.

[tlynn78]

I'm super glad my BSA popcorn got delivered this morning. I'm going to need it. The contortions are better than a Cirque show.

[Vandal]

[Bob Juch]

I'm super glad my BSA popcorn got delivered this morning. I'm going to need it. The contortions are better than a Cirque show.

The Boy Scouts are selling popcorn? The Girl Scouts win.

[jarnon]

Regarding BJ's quotes from Dan Latuff and Shelly Duarte:
Victim shaming is wrong, whether Moore's supporters or BJ's sources do it. Franken was man enough to admit he acted inappropriately (as BJ also quoted). Democrats should heed Michelle Obama's advice: "When they go low, we go high."

[Bob Juch]

Regarding BJ's quotes from Dan Latuff and Shelly Duarte:
Victim shaming is wrong, whether Moore's supporters or BJ's sources do it. Franken was man enough to admit he acted inappropriately (as BJ also quoted). Democrats should heed Michelle Obama's advice: "When they go low, we go high."

I don't see where anyone blamed the victim, they questioned if she was a victim.

[silverscreenselect]

Regarding BJ's quotes from Dan Latuff and Shelly Duarte:
Victim shaming is wrong, whether Moore's supporters or BJ's sources do it. Franken was man enough to admit he acted inappropriately (as BJ also quoted). Democrats should heed Michelle Obama's advice: "When they go low, we go high."

I don't see where anyone blamed the victim, they questioned if she was a victim.

Unfortunately, that's just what Moore's supporters and the Breitbart hit squads did as well.

If there's an inquiry, then the facts will come out one way or another, unless Franken chooses to bow out of the Senate now.

But I would lay heavy odds that he's not going to be the last member of Congress to be accused over the next few months.

[BackInTex]

That is SO wrong. Jim's dead and can't even defend himself.

[BackInTex]

I don't see where anyone blamed the victim, they questioned if she was a victim.

Unfortunately, that's just what Moore's supporters and the Breitbart hit squads did as well.

I've yet to hear "It's all part of a vast left-wing conspiracy!".

If I've missed it, I'm sorry.

[Spock]

One thought on Moore/Franken et al.

One political truism that I have noticed consistently over time is that Democrats tend to overplay their hand and it often backfires on them-(Versus Republicans who don't play their hand-but that is another story)

Knowing that that often happens makes day-to-day political events less anxiety-inducing.

A prime example was the Wellstone funeral in 2002.

Whether they overplayed the Moore card remains to be seen.

[flockofseagulls104]

One thought on Moore/Franken et al.

One political truism that I have noticed consistently over time is that Democrats tend to overplay their hand and it often backfires on them-(Versus Republicans who don't play their hand-but that is another story)

Knowing that that often happens makes day-to-day political events less anxiety-inducing.

A prime example was the Wellstone funeral in 2002.

Whether they overplayed the Moore card remains to be seen.

Republicans sit on their hands.

[silverscreenselect]

Republicans sit on their hands.

It makes it much easier for them to stick their thumbs up their butts.

[Bob78164]

One thought on Moore/Franken et al.

One political truism that I have noticed consistently over time is that Democrats tend to overplay their hand and it often backfires on them-(Versus Republicans who don't play their hand-but that is another story)

Knowing that that often happens makes day-to-day political events less anxiety-inducing.

A prime example was the Wellstone funeral in 2002.

Whether they overplayed the Moore card remains to be seen.

The American people apparently decided in 1998 that the Republicans then in power were overplaying their hands. --Bob

[Bob78164]

Regarding BJ's quotes from Dan Latuff and Shelly Duarte:
Victim shaming is wrong, whether Moore's supporters or BJ's sources do it. Franken was man enough to admit he acted inappropriately (as BJ also quoted). Democrats should heed Michelle Obama's advice: "When they go low, we go high."

It would be one thing if those comments were sourced. They're not. What I've seen claims that the (unnamed) photographer said something about the circumstances of the photograph that's contrary to the complainant's account. Until and unless there's a named source to that effect, such a report deserves no credence at all. Particularly when Franken himself acknowledges (at least tacitly) that he did not have her consent to stage the photograph.

By the way, in the photograph, there's clearly space between Franken's left hand and the complainant's body. Due to the camera angle, you can't (or at least I can't) tell whether that's also the case with respect to his right hand. Doesn't make the photograph any less objectionable, but it does mean that the photograph isn't (or may not be) an actual grope, as opposed to a mock grope, which would be a subtler sort of violation. I have real trouble imagining that I'll be able to support Franken's reelection (though his second statement was a step in the right direction), but if it's an isolated incident (and I give much less credence to the second account that emerged yesterday, though I do think that account also merits investigation), in my view it doesn't merit expulsion.

In any event, the Ethics Committee will get to the facts and that process is underway, and that's the body that would start the expulsion process. So even for those who believe Franken should lose his job over this right now, the process is underway. The present issue is whether the voters of Alabama will send Roy Moore to the Senate. And that's something that those voters still have direct control over. --Bob

[Beebs52]

Regarding BJ's quotes from Dan Latuff and Shelly Duarte:
Victim shaming is wrong, whether Moore's supporters or BJ's sources do it. Franken was man enough to admit he acted inappropriately (as BJ also quoted). Democrats should heed Michelle Obama's advice: "When they go low, we go high."

It would be one thing if those comments were sourced. They're not. What I've seen claims that the (unnamed) photographer said something about the circumstances of the photograph that's contrary to the complainant's account. Until and unless there's a named source to that effect, such a report deserves no credence at all. Particularly when Franken himself acknowledges (at least tacitly) that he did not have her consent to stage the photograph.

By the way, in the photograph, there's clearly space between Franken's left hand and the complainant's body. Due to the camera angle, you can't (or at least I can't) tell whether that's also the case with respect to his right hand. Doesn't make the photograph any less objectionable, but it does mean that the photograph isn't (or may not be) an actual grope, as opposed to a mock grope, which would be a subtler sort of violation. I have real trouble imagining that I'll be able to support Franken's reelection (though his second statement was a step in the right direction), but if it's an isolated incident (and I give much less credence to the second account that emerged yesterday, though I do think that account also merits investigation), in my view it doesn't merit expulsion.

In any event, the Ethics Committee will get to the facts and that process is underway, and that's the body that would start the expulsion process. So even for those who believe Franken should lose his job over this right now, the process is underway. The present issue is whether the voters of Alabama will send Roy Moore to the Senate. And that's something that those voters still have direct control over. --Bob

You are a piece of work.

[Bob Juch]

Republicans sit on their hands.

It makes it much easier for them to stick their thumbs up their butts.

Maybe if they used their hands more they'd assault women less.

[flockofseagulls104]

Republicans sit on their hands.

It makes it much easier for them to stick their thumbs up their butts.

For once I agree with you.

[flockofseagulls104]

Republicans sit on their hands.

It makes it much easier for them to stick their thumbs up their butts.

Maybe if they used their hands more they'd assault women less.

Another piece of work.

[flockofseagulls104]

Regarding BJ's quotes from Dan Latuff and Shelly Duarte:
Victim shaming is wrong, whether Moore's supporters or BJ's sources do it. Franken was man enough to admit he acted inappropriately (as BJ also quoted). Democrats should heed Michelle Obama's advice: "When they go low, we go high."

It would be one thing if those comments were sourced. They're not. What I've seen claims that the (unnamed) photographer said something about the circumstances of the photograph that's contrary to the complainant's account. Until and unless there's a named source to that effect, such a report deserves no credence at all. Particularly when Franken himself acknowledges (at least tacitly) that he did not have her consent to stage the photograph.

By the way, in the photograph, there's clearly space between Franken's left hand and the complainant's body. Due to the camera angle, you can't (or at least I can't) tell whether that's also the case with respect to his right hand. Doesn't make the photograph any less objectionable, but it does mean that the photograph isn't (or may not be) an actual grope, as opposed to a mock grope, which would be a subtler sort of violation. I have real trouble imagining that I'll be able to support Franken's reelection (though his second statement was a step in the right direction), but if it's an isolated incident (and I give much less credence to the second account that emerged yesterday, though I do think that account also merits investigation), in my view it doesn't merit expulsion.

In any event, the Ethics Committee will get to the facts and that process is underway, and that's the body that would start the expulsion process. So even for those who believe Franken should lose his job over this right now, the process is underway. The present issue is whether the voters of Alabama will send Roy Moore to the Senate. And that's something that those voters still have direct control over. --Bob

You are a piece of work.

bob, you ought to run for congress. You would fit in so well.

[elwoodblues]

If a man is accused of sexual harassment and no one knows what his politics are, how will we know whose side to take?

[tlynn78]

If a man is accused of sexual harassment and no one knows what his politics are, how will we know if he's guilty?

Fixed it for you.

[jarnon]

Weinstein's making a case for Time's Man of the Year.

Time turned it around:

[Bob78164]

I think Senator Gillibrand has it right about Senator Franken. He has the right to have the Ethics Committee review the accusations against him. But he shouldn't exercise that right. He should resign. It's true that what Franken is accused of (and what I believe he did) doesn't approach the level of, say, a man in his thirties initiating sexual contact with a fourteen-year-old girl and repeatedly trolling high school functions and hang-outs to get dates. Nevertheless, there are enough highly credible accounts of utterly unacceptable conduct that I don't think he can effectively represent his constituents.

When the first incident surfaced, I'd hoped it was an isolated (if appalling) exercise of bad judgment. It's clear, now, that there was nothing isolated about it. --Bob