What I know about Ferguson

[mrkelley23]

One of the reasons I invest so much time in Facebook is that it has allowed me to do what I had never been able to do before: contact and maintain a relationship with former students. They are valuable to me, and I hope the feeling is mutual. Facebook, for all its faults, allows me to share in their joys and prides, pains and sorrows. We are not friends except in the internet sense, but we certainly share a lot and know a lot about each other. Because of that unique teacher-student bond, they will say things to me that won't say elsewhere. I trust them, more than I trust a lot of folks, to tell me the truth about their lives.

Every "brown" former student I am in touch with on FB, every single one, (granted, it's less than a hundred, a relatively small sample size) feels the same way about stories like this. Whether it's Trayvon Martin, or Michael Brown, or any of the others, they say it's about institutionalized racism in law enforcement. And these are not activists, or traveling protesters, or thugs. Because of the subject I teach, they are mostly upwardly mobile professionals, probably a majority of them engineers. Regardless of whether it's even true, it is a monolithic belief, and I have to believe it has some grounding in reality. That bad relationship means that fewer and fewer people of color join police forces, which means the force becomes even more predominantly white, which concentrates the problem rather than solving it.

If you listen to the talking points of both "sides" in the media, there's probably an element of truth in all of them. I don't know the solution here, either. But I'm afraid Fergusons are going to keep happening until we blunder into something. The well of rage about police is awfully deep, and outfitting them (police) with paramilitary hardware has exacerbated the problem. Thank you, once again, Homeland Security. Do you realize podunk little Evansville has a bomb-sniffing robot, thanks to a federal grant? And an up-armored Humvee for SWAT raids?

The one thing (or lots of things, really) I DON'T know about Ferguson is the facts of the case which set the whole thing off.

[littlebeast13]

The one thing (or lots of things, really) I DON'T know about Ferguson is the facts of the case which set the whole thing off.

You are the first person other than myself to admit to this. Seems like everyone knows exactly what happened... though their version of the "facts" only matches what they want to believe actually happened. I'm so sick of hearing people tell me "facts" about a case where we will NEVER know exactly what happened. Nobody can be trusted with details because everyone sticks up for their own, and I haven't trusted TV news with the "facts" in a very long time. And the pressures applied on the investigators from both fellow law enforcement and the black community are only going to make the "facts" even murkier...

Thank you for some of your usual refreshing candor (And yes, I'll back you up on your main point too, at least from my observation)...

lb13

[Bob Juch]

The one thing (or lots of things, really) I DON'T know about Ferguson is the facts of the case which set the whole thing off.

You are the first person other than myself to admit to this. Seems like everyone knows exactly what happened... though their version of the "facts" only matches what they want to believe actually happened. I'm so sick of hearing people tell me "facts" about a case where we will NEVER know exactly what happened. Nobody can be trusted with details because everyone sticks up for their own, and I haven't trusted TV news with the "facts" in a very long time. And the pressures applied on the investigators from both fellow law enforcement and the black community are only going to make the "facts" even murkier...

Thank you for some of your usual refreshing candor (And yes, I'll back you up on your main point too, at least from my observation)...

lb13

So we should just forget about the whole thing?

[elwoodblues]

It's funny how, without exception, everyone who believes George Zimmerman is guilty also thinks the Ferguson cop is guilty, and everyone without exception who thought Trayvon Martin was a thug who had it coming thinks the same about Michael Brown. We don't know what happened in either case.

[elwoodblues]

I would also bet that you could ask people their opinion of what happened in Ferguson and predict with over 90% accuracy their positions on abortion rights, gay marriage, climate change, gun control and any number of other issues.

[tlynn78]

One of the reasons I invest so much time in Facebook is that it has allowed me to do what I had never been able to do before: contact and maintain a relationship with former students. They are valuable to me, and I hope the feeling is mutual. Facebook, for all its faults, allows me to share in their joys and prides, pains and sorrows. We are not friends except in the internet sense, but we certainly share a lot and know a lot about each other. Because of that unique teacher-student bond, they will say things to me that won't say elsewhere. I trust them, more than I trust a lot of folks, to tell me the truth about their lives.

Every "brown" former student I am in touch with on FB, every single one, (granted, it's less than a hundred, a relatively small sample size) feels the same way about stories like this. Whether it's Trayvon Martin, or Michael Brown, or any of the others, they say it's about institutionalized racism in law enforcement. And these are not activists, or traveling protesters, or thugs. Because of the subject I teach, they are mostly upwardly mobile professionals, probably a majority of them engineers. Regardless of whether it's even true, it is a monolithic belief, and I have to believe it has some grounding in reality. That bad relationship means that fewer and fewer people of color join police forces, which means the force becomes even more predominantly white, which concentrates the problem rather than solving it.

If you listen to the talking points of both "sides" in the media, there's probably an element of truth in all of them. I don't know the solution here, either. But I'm afraid Fergusons are going to keep happening until we blunder into something. The well of rage about police is awfully deep, and outfitting them (police) with paramilitary hardware has exacerbated the problem. Thank you, once again, Homeland Security. Do you realize podunk little Evansville has a bomb-sniffing robot, thanks to a federal grant? And an up-armored Humvee for SWAT raids?

The one thing (or lots of things, really) I DON'T know about Ferguson is the facts of the case which set the whole thing off.

I have no doubt there is "institutionalized racism in law enforcement" in probably every municipality in the country to some extent. It is in part, I think, an unfortunate consequence of racial profiling/stereotyping. Part of it is just assholes being assholes. While it's not a good thing, unfortunately, racial profiling and stereotypes exist for a reason. The simple fact is, when a report comes over the radio of a crime in progress, and the descriptor includes skin color, that segment of the population is going to be under greater scrutiny.
I am not sure I agree that equals "fewer and fewer people of color join(ing) police forces" though. The minority population where I live is growing, and so is the number of people of color on the police force/sheriff's department. YMMV, of course.

[Estonut]

It's funny how, without exception, everyone who believes George Zimmerman is guilty also thinks the Ferguson cop is guilty, and everyone without exception who thought Trayvon Martin was a thug who had it coming thinks the same about Michael Brown. We don't know what happened in either case.

This is not true. I am one exception to this.

[elwoodblues]

It's funny how, without exception, everyone who believes George Zimmerman is guilty also thinks the Ferguson cop is guilty, and everyone without exception who thought Trayvon Martin was a thug who had it coming thinks the same about Michael Brown. We don't know what happened in either case.

This is not true. I am one exception to this.

Okay, maybe that was a bit of hyperbole, but it did seem as though a lot of people used these tragic events to reinforce the beliefs they already had.

[christie1111]

It's funny how, without exception, everyone who believes George Zimmerman is guilty also thinks the Ferguson cop is guilty, and everyone without exception who thought Trayvon Martin was a thug who had it coming thinks the same about Michael Brown. We don't know what happened in either case.

This is not true. I am one exception to this.

Me too.

[Beebs52]

It's funny how, without exception, everyone who believes George Zimmerman is guilty also thinks the Ferguson cop is guilty, and everyone without exception who thought Trayvon Martin was a thug who had it coming thinks the same about Michael Brown. We don't know what happened in either case.

This is not true. I am one exception to this.

Me too.

Ditto.

[Jeemie]

I think Trayvon Martin wasa thug, but he is dead because of George Zimmerman's actions.

I can't think of any reason for a cop to shoot someone six times, but Brown definitely was a thief.

[Estonut]

I can't think of any reason for a cop to shoot someone six times, ...

I can. If the first five shots don't stop an assailant's charge.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/26350048/ ... mery-fired

But discourtsey to a NFL player will get you fired

[Jeemie]

I can't think of any reason for a cop to shoot someone six times, ...

I can. If the first five shots don't stop an assailant's charge.

Again...have a hard time imagining a situation where five shots wouldn't stop an assailant's charge.

[Bob Juch]

I can't think of any reason for a cop to shoot someone six times, ...

I can. If the first five shots don't stop an assailant's charge.

Again...have a hard time imagining a situation where five shots wouldn't stop an assailant's charge.

The final shot, through the top of his head, was the fatal one.

[Jeemie]

I can. If the first five shots don't stop an assailant's charge.

Again...have a hard time imagining a situation where five shots wouldn't stop an assailant's charge.

The final shot, through the top of his head, was the fatal one.

Plenty of ways to stop someone without killing them.

[rayxtwo]

If you want to know about Ferguson, read my post in the NRA thread. I lived there for 50 years.

Ray

[BackInTex]

As we know more, as more truth comes out, because it is not the politically correct truth, it will not be accepted.

Report: Autopsy Suggests Michael Brown Reached for Ferguson Officer's Gun

Now granted, this is a report on leaked information about the autopsy, not the official release of the autopsy. So we still don't have access to the official truth, yet. But should the official autopsy come out as stated in this article, and the officer is not charged, what happens?

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html
The Washington Post has a more compresenive story

[Bob Juch]

As we know more, as more truth comes out, because it is not the politically correct truth, it will not be accepted.

Report: Autopsy Suggests Michael Brown Reached for Ferguson Officer's Gun

Now granted, this is a report on leaked information about the autopsy, not the official release of the autopsy. So we still don't have access to the official truth, yet. But should the official autopsy come out as stated in this article, and the officer is not charged, what happens?

I just read the official autopsy report. There was a graze wound on Brown's hand. There were no powder burns. Whoever suggested the hand wound "suggests" he reached for the gun is nuts.

[Estonut]

As we know more, as more truth comes out, because it is not the politically correct truth, it will not be accepted.

Report: Autopsy Suggests Michael Brown Reached for Ferguson Officer's Gun

Now granted, this is a report on leaked information about the autopsy, not the official release of the autopsy. So we still don't have access to the official truth, yet. But should the official autopsy come out as stated in this article, and the officer is not charged, what happens?

I just read the official autopsy report. There was a graze wound on Brown's hand. There were no powder burns. Whoever suggested the hand wound "suggests" he reached for the gun is nuts.

Thanks for the expert analysis, Dr. Noguchi.

[Bob Juch]

As we know more, as more truth comes out, because it is not the politically correct truth, it will not be accepted.

Report: Autopsy Suggests Michael Brown Reached for Ferguson Officer's Gun

Now granted, this is a report on leaked information about the autopsy, not the official release of the autopsy. So we still don't have access to the official truth, yet. But should the official autopsy come out as stated in this article, and the officer is not charged, what happens?

I just read the official autopsy report. There was a graze wound on Brown's hand. There were no powder burns. Whoever suggested the hand wound "suggests" he reached for the gun is nuts.

Thanks for the expert analysis, Dr. Noguchi.

Dr. Michael Baden was hired by the family to do an independent autopsy, remember? He didn't find that either.

What's disturbing is that the report shows that two shots were fired into Brown's head while he was lying on the ground. He was executed.

[Estonut]

What's disturbing is that the report shows that two shots were fired into Brown's head while he was lying on the ground. He was executed.

Which report? The one you're imagining?

[Bob Juch]

Expert: My Michael Brown Autopsy Analysis Was Taken 'Out Of Context'

Judy Melinek, one of the forensic experts who was quoted by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch on Tuesday about the Michael Brown autopsy report, is taking issue with how the newspaper portrayed her comments.

The key piece of Melinek's analysis, according to the Post-Dispatch's original report, was that the report of Brown's autopsy "supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound. If he has his hand near the gun when it goes off, he’s going for the officer’s gun.”

That would be consistent with Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson's version of events, as reported by the New York Times and others. Melinek was also paraphrased by the newspaper saying that the autopsy was inconsistent with witness accounts of Brown having his hands up in surrender when he was shot by Wilson.

But Melinek told MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell on Wednesday that her comments had been taken "out of context" and that she believed the findings could be explained by other scenarios as well.

"What happens sometimes is when you get interviewed and you have a long conversation with a journalist, they're going to take things out of context," she said. "I made it very clear that we only have partial information here. We don't have the scene information. We don't have the police investigation. We don't have all the witness statements. And you can't interpret autopsy findings in a vacuum."

She and O'Donnell then walked through a variety of alternative situations in which the gunshot residue found on Brown's hand -- the key finding that suggested Brown had been reaching for Wilson's gun -- could have gotten there.

"I'm not saying that Brown going for the gun is the only explanation. I'm saying the officer said he was going for the gun and the right thumb wound supports that," Melinek. "I have limited information. It could also be consistent with other scenarios. That's the important thing. That's why the witnesses need to speak to the grand jury and the grand jury needs to hear all the unbiased testimony and compare those statements to the physical evidence."

[jarnon]

The grand jury has decided not to indict Darren Wilson.