Afghans and Homosexuality

[BackInTex]

In this country, where the Santa Monica idiot was born and raised, the vast majority of people heaping calumny on the LGBTQ community have done so in the name of Christianity.

And I notice that you ignored the terrorist who walked into a church to shoot a doctor in cold blood for reasons that were self-evidently religious. Not to mention the Westboro Baptist Church.

My point isn't that Christianity is evil. It's that these evil people who claim to act in the name of Christianity no more represent that faith than the Orlando idiot actually represents the Islamic faith. So I refuse to assist ISIS with its propaganda campaign to the contrary.

And by the way, the Orlando idiot apparently had profiles up on gay dating sites. So maybe he wasn't Islamic after all. Makes as much sense as saying that the Santa Monica idiot wasn't Christian because he may have been gay. --Bob

So Arabic folks shouting "I am Muslim, I do this in the name of Allah", not Muslim.
White people with guns or bombs saying nothing about Jesus are Christian.

Got it.

[BackInTex]

And I notice that you ignored the terrorist who walked into a church to shoot a doctor in cold blood for reasons that were self-evidently religious. Not to mention the Westboro Baptist Church.

Ignored Westboro because despite the nastiness of their actions and beliefs, I don't believe they have ever caused as much as a hangnail to anyone. I would say they are as annoying at the BLM protesters but then there are the videos of Baltimore.

The guy who shot Tiller, shot one guy, one pre-planned target, claimed to be a Christian and to do it in the name of Christianity. You got me on that one incident, single targeted death. Guilty.

In the name of Islam - 3,160
In the name of Christianity - 1

[silverscreenselect]

Perhaps you have real-life experience with this. I looked it up in 3 on-line dictionaries and all three define it as a man who has sexual relations with a (minor) boy. If it is "more about exerting power over a younger person," then why doesn't the definition cover assaults against minor females?

That's because the term originated in ancient Greece to refer to the rather ritualized relationship that often existed there between older men and younger boys. The terms pedophilia or simply child sexual abuse used to describe more generally relations between adults and children regardless of sex.

[Spock]

Bob #'s>>>"In this country, where the Santa Monica idiot was born and raised, the vast majority of people heaping calumny on the LGBTQ community have done so in the name of Christianity."<<<<

I wonder how true that actually is anymore. The anti-homosexual vitriol preached by a lot of imams goes a lot farther in demanding actions such as killing homosexuals than all but a tiny sample of Christian preachers.The Santa Monica shooter would have had very little exposure to Christian teachings (of whatever stripe)-He comes out of an Islamic faith tradition.

Jeez, give the poor Santa Monica guy some credit for the culture in which he lived his life and what the influences on it would have been.

As mass Muslim immigration continues here, more and more anti-homosexual vitriol will be preached here in the mosques.

On the subject of the Left giving Islam a complete pass on everything, this example really cracks me up. My afore-mentioned liberal Facebook friend contributed the following to a thread on Republican (and others) who do not fully support the most radical portions of the homosexual agenda as, essentially, loading the gun for Mateen.

She blamed the African Christian preachers who advocate killing homosexuals. OK, that is fine, but it is funny that she did not think to mention the large number of Islamic countries who execute homosexuals as a matter of policy.

[Spock]

Bob #'s>>>"In this country, where the Santa Monica idiot was born and raised, the vast majority of people heaping calumny on the LGBTQ community have done so in the name of Christianity."<<<<

Bob, is it possible, in your view, for a Muslim that was born here, or in the Western European countries, to commit a terrorist action related to his faith? Or are the horrible influences of Christianity so pervasive (even in the most radical of Islamic faith communities) that Islam will always get a pass?

[Bob78164]

Bob #'s>>>"In this country, where the Santa Monica idiot was born and raised, the vast majority of people heaping calumny on the LGBTQ community have done so in the name of Christianity."<<<<

I wonder how true that actually is anymore. The anti-homosexual vitriol preached by a lot of imams goes a lot farther in demanding actions such as killing homosexuals than all but a tiny sample of Christian preachers.The Santa Monica shooter would have had very little exposure to Christian teachings (of whatever stripe)-He comes out of an Islamic faith tradition.

Evidence, please?

Once again, them saying that they do it in the name of Islam doesn't mean that it actually does reflect Islamic beliefs. Just like shooting an abortion doctor in the name of Christ doesn't mean the shooter's acts really do reflect Christian beliefs.

I don't give a fuck what the shooter says motivates them. I care what the bulk of the people professing the belief are saying about it. The analogy is apt -- ISIS no more represents Islam than the KKK represents Christianity. --Bob

[Bob Juch]

You are such a religious bigot assuming a white-non Hispanic person from the mid-west trying to harm someone must be a Christian. I've read that he was troubled and gay (yes gay).

I'll agree he was troubled. The same day he was in Santa Monica an arrest warrant was issued for him sexually assaulting an underage girl.

[smilergrogan]

I like to sleep with an Afghan sometimes. Does that make me a homosexual?

[Bob78164]

ISIS no more represents Islam than the KKK represents Christianity. --Bob

Or this guy. --Bob

[earendel]

I like to sleep with an Afghan sometimes.

Dog or knitted object?

[Bob78164]

ISIS no more represents Islam than the KKK represents Christianity. --Bob

Or this guy. --Bob

Or these asswipes. --Bob

[Spock]

Bob #'s>>>"In this country, where the Santa Monica idiot was born and raised, the vast majority of people heaping calumny on the LGBTQ community have done so in the name of Christianity."<<<<

I wonder how true that actually is anymore. The anti-homosexual vitriol preached by a lot of imams goes a lot farther in demanding actions such as killing homosexuals than all but a tiny sample of Christian preachers.The Santa Monica shooter would have had very little exposure to Christian teachings (of whatever stripe)-He comes out of an Islamic faith tradition.

Evidence, please?

Once again, them saying that they do it in the name of Islam doesn't mean that it actually does reflect Islamic beliefs. Just like shooting an abortion doctor in the name of Christ doesn't mean the shooter's acts really do reflect Christian beliefs.

I don't give a fuck what the shooter says motivates them. I care what the bulk of the people professing the belief are saying about it. The analogy is apt -- ISIS no more represents Islam than the KKK represents Christianity. --Bob

It is unclear, what are you asking me to give evidence for? What is your evidence that the Orlando/Santa Monica shooter-et al shooter were motivated by Christianity?

>>>"Once again, them saying that they do it in the name of Islam doesn't mean that it actually does reflect Islamic beliefs.<<<

Says you.(Parroting a huge talking point of the secular Left.) A large segment of the Islamic world appears to disagree with you. Have you spent time studying the various tenets of Islam and so forth. What are your sources? A secular western liberal stating that certain actions are not Islamic probably doesn't hold much water with the average Muslim, either in the west or the Islamic world.

So, in your view, the violent Jihad does not reflect Islamic beliefs. Is the way Islam treats its women true Islam? Are you comfortable with the way Islam treats its women? Who are the practitioners of True Islam, in your view, and what are your qualifications for your right to define "True Islam."

I also would expect that SSS/Bob#'s would at least occasionally express some concern, of their own volition, about the "Calls to Kill Gays", and so forth that come out of the mosques, even in the western world. It should not have to be me of BIT that brings that up. Once again, the Left gives Islam a total pass on that.

But nope, we are more focused on the fact that Spock might not like to see 2 men Kissing than recent calls by an Imam in Orlando that gays should be killed out of compassion.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/14/hate-imam- ... -massacre/

[Spock]

Bob#s>>>>I don't give a fuck what the shooter says motivates them.<<<<

As you have no interest in the motivation for crimes and are only interested in the Crime itself. I have to assume that you are strong advocate against all forms of hate-crimes legislation.

[Bob78164]

Says you.(Parroting a huge talking point of the secular Left.) A large segment of the Islamic world appears to disagree with you. Have you spent time studying the various tenets of Islam and so forth. What are your sources? A secular western liberal stating that certain actions are not Islamic probably doesn't hold much water with the average Muslim, either in the west or the Islamic world.

So, in your view, the violent Jihad does not reflect Islamic beliefs. Is the way Islam treats its women true Islam? Are you comfortable with the way Islam treats its women? Who are the practitioners of True Islam, in your view, and what are your qualifications for your right to define "True Islam."

I also would expect that SSS/Bob#'s would at least occasionally express some concern, of their own volition, about the "Calls to Kill Gays", and so forth that come out of the mosques, even in the western world. It should not have to be me of BIT that brings that up. Once again, the Left gives Islam a total pass on that.

But nope, we are more focused on the fact that Spock might not like to see 2 men Kissing than recent calls by an Imam in Orlando that gays should be killed out of compassion.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/14/hate-imam- ... -massacre/

Says an awful lot of adherents of Islam.

There are undoubtedly asswipes (such as the one you link) calling themselves Islamic who are just as odious as the asswipes (such as the two in the Washington Post article I linked) who call themselves Christian. Do you think those asswipes represent Christianity? Then why should this asswipe get to represent Islam? Particularly when most members of that faith appear to be horrified by his acts.

I do have issues with aspects of mainstream Islamic belief and practice, of course, just as I have issues with aspects of mainstream Christian belief and practice and, for that matter, the beliefs and practices of Orthodox Jews. But that's a far cry from tarring Islam as a violent religion.

And if Spock doesn't like to see two men kissing (or a woman feeding her baby at a Target store), he should look away. It's his problem. Not theirs. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

A secular western liberal stating that certain actions are not Islamic probably doesn't hold much water with the average Muslim, either in the west or the Islamic world.

So says someone whose prime source material is 19th century adventure books and Mark Steyn.

[silverscreenselect]

So, in your view, the violent Jihad does not reflect Islamic beliefs. Is the way Islam treats its women true Islam? Are you comfortable with the way Islam treats its women? Who are the practitioners of True Islam, in your view, and what are your qualifications for your right to define "True Islam."

Arguing about who or what is True Islam is like arguing about what is "true" Christianity. There are over one billion Muslims in the world. The vast majority of them, like the vast majority of Christians are peaceful. Women and gays are treated as second class citizens and treated cruelly (and sometimes fatally) in Muslim countries and in Christian countries as well. There are fewer calls nowadays to kill gays and adulterous women in Christian countries, but I don't think that's a matter of Islam vs. Christianity so much as the fact that the societies in most Christian countries are farther advanced than in Muslim countries. But it wasn't all that long ago that a substantial number of Christians in this country felt it was their religious duty to lynch black people.

Right wingers somehow think that if the US did "something," we could stamp out fundamental Islam the same way we beat Nazi Germany. They want to fight a 21st century war with mid-20th century strategy and tactics. The last time we tried this in the Mideast, we wound up with ISIS. What we have is an enemy that has become very adept at reaching and co-opting young people with their religious message. Not a lot of them in terms of raw numbers, but as Mateen and the San Bernadino killers demonstrated, it only takes a few, properly armed, to cause a lot of damage. You can't stop that by banning immigration or by carpet bombing portions of Iraq and Syria or even by sending in thousands of Marines. You stop it by first disrupting the flow of information to potential new recruits in this country and by winning their hearts and minds.

What Trump and the right wingers always want to do plays right into ISIS' hands. By declaring war on "radical Islam," we legitimize them in the eyes of young people even more so than they are today. We are winning the war, despite what the right wingers say, but the impression that we're not is due to the fact that the few successful attacks in this country produce lots of casualties due to the heavy weaponry we make it so easily for them to get and such massive publicity. 100 people dead and wounded is a horrible number, but it would be considered an average day in Iraq a decade ago.

[TheConfessor]

I just happened to see this article about Afghan sex customs, crimes, and consequences, which y'all are free to spin as you see fit.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/taliban-hone ... soc_trk=tw

[Spock]

>>>And if Spock doesn't like to see two men kissing (or a woman feeding her baby at a Target store), he should look away. It's his problem.<<<

>>>So says someone whose prime source material is 19th century adventure books and Mark Steyn.<<<<

Ooh, that hurts. What is your preferred source material on the problems(or non-problems) of the massive demographic changes that Europe is undergoing? Or do you prefer to stick your head in the sand and pretend that there are not even questions to be asked?

It is neat to see how you guys turned this on me. We continually wet our pants here over the 12 people involved in the Westboro Baptist Church. But not one specific word of concern about the Imam preaching the death of Homosexuals in ORLANDO in 2016. Does anyone really think that Orlando is the only mosque in the US where such teachings are promulgated. Apparently, we plan to give that whole topic a pass. No big deal.

I really get a kick out of how SSS basically turned his response into an attack on historical Christianity and Right-wingers. An Imam preaches death to homosexuals in Orlando in 2016 and his only thought is how to turn his response into an attack on Right-Wingers and historical Christianity. OMG, we can't waste one second of thought on an Imam preaching the murder of Homosexuals in ORLANDO in 2016.

One of SSS trademarks is that he likes to inform us about every anti-gay Christian preacher who has slipped. And I will admit that those are funny as hell. Do you find the Imams preaching death to homosexuals funny, or might they be deadly serious in the long run?

Set aside the coincidence that the murders occurred in Orlando. Isn't the fact that an Imam is preaching the murder of homosexuals in Orlando in 2016 worthy of some sort of massive thread here?


Going back to this.
>>>And if Spock doesn't like to see two men kissing (or a woman feeding her baby at a Target store), he should look away. It's his problem.<<<

Exactly, but for some reason, the Facebook feeds of my liberal peeps seem awfully concerned about the fact that I may not be rapturous over seeing 2 men kissing.

[silverscreenselect]

>>>And if Spock doesn't like to see two men kissing (or a woman feeding her baby at a Target store), he should look away. It's his problem.<<<

Exactly, but for some reason, the Facebook feeds of my liberal peeps seem awfully concerned about the fact that I may not be rapturous over seeing 2 men kissing.

Spock, your concern for gays (and that of many right wingers) is touching. You don't want them dead at the hand of Muslims because it fits in with your preconceived notions of radical Islam and your political agenda, but you don't want them extended any civil rights other than to be allowed to keep breathing somewhere where they don't inconvenience you.

Preaching death to homosexuals, whether done by an imam or a preacher, bothers me. In this country, however, we have something called freedom of speech that protects most but not all speech of that type, depending on how it's worded. But the solution to that is not to declare war on "radical Islam" any more than it was to declare war against "radical Christianity" when the Klan was lynching blacks a half century ago.

Treating "radical Islam" as a monolithic entity is a mistake in terms of attempting to formulate an effective response against those individuals who are actively attempting to harm the United States and its citizens.

[Spock]

I am trying to remember if I have ever actually seen 2 men kiss.

Outside of newspaper photos (and so forth) and my extensive collection of Gay Porn, probably not.

[Spock]

SSS>>>Preaching death to homosexuals, whether done by an imam or a preacher, bothers me.<<<

Apparently, it doesn't. Because you can't be bothered to waste any passion on it.

But, boy are you passionate about some "Right-Wing, Radical Islam" straw man. I don't recall making a big deal about it, but I will take your word on it that I have.

SSS>>>Spock, your concern for gays (and that of many right wingers) is touching.<<<

I realize that this is your stock answer, to this, or anything I might say, about the Massive increase in Chicago murders and shootings (in a city that has been run by Democrats forever) or anything in that vein. etc etc. But, as I said earlier, it should not have to be me that bring up Imams preaching death to Homosexuals in one of our major cities.

Given the direction that this country is going with massive Muslim immigration-what is more likely the Face of the Future-The Westboro Baptist Church or an Imam preaching death in a mosque?

Do you have any thoughts on the massive demographic changes occurring in Europe other than "Spock reads Mark Steyn."

Just a "Minor" example of what is happening there is that in many areas with large Muslim populations is that many young non-muslim young women are just finding it easier to don a head scarf to avoid harassment.

But, I guess that you won't have any thoughts on that other than the fact that you are touched by my concern for young women

[flockofseagulls104]

Spock, your concern for gays (and that of many right wingers) is touching.

SSS, PROVE that you have more concern for the well being of gay people than Spock or 'many right wingers'. You don't. All you have is a left wing political agenda that tells you that because you espouse that agenda, you are automatically more compassionate than anyone else. It is all a lie.

You don't want them dead at the hand of Muslims because it fits in with your preconceived notions of radical Islam and your political agenda, but you don't want them extended any civil rights other than to be allowed to keep breathing somewhere where they don't inconvenience you.

Exactly what civil rights are homosexual people lacking?

[silverscreenselect]

Given the direction that this country is going with massive Muslim immigration-what is more likely the Face of the Future-The Westboro Baptist Church or an Imam preaching death in a mosque?

Well, there we have it.

What you're afraid of is hordes of Muslims coming to your little town and taking over. Some of them might even move right next door to you.

I don't know what your ethnic background is, but I'd venture that when your ancestors arrived, the people who were already here were worried about massive numbers of them coming and preaching whatever it is they were afraid of. And guess what, we've assimilated them. We assimilated the first bunch of English, and the Irish, and the Germans, and the Italians, and the Russians (like my ancestors), and the Chinese, and the Mexicans, and the Africans (who were the only group who didn't come here voluntarily).

According to the Pew Research center, Muslims make up about 1% of the population, that's 3.3 million, more than HIndus and about half as many as Jews. Even by the most optimistic projections, by 2050, they will make up 2.1% of the population. And they are not having a significant success in proselytizing non-Muslims. About the same number of people convert to Islam from other faiths as leave the faith.

In addition, the overwhelming majority of them do not preach "death to homosexuals," any more than the overwhelming majority of Christians do. Of course, you wouldn't know that by spending all your time listening to the fearmongers who tell you that it's only a matter of a couple of years before your wife will have to wear a burka in public. The number of radicalized Muslims is quite small, but, as we've seen, their ability, thanks to our rather lax gun laws, to inflict substantial amounts of damage is way out of proportion to their total numbers. However, if people like you continue to insist on adopting an us vs. them mentality, then increasing numbers of young Muslims will choose to become "them" rather than continue to be villified and dehumanized.

It's worth noting that I haven't heard a single gay person organization (other than the handful of already vocal gay right wingers) who has been moved or influenced or even believes in the sincerity of this newfound love for the LBGT community and its rights that you, Trump, and others have conveniently expressed within the last week.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... opulation/

[silverscreenselect]

Exactly what civil rights are homosexual people lacking?

Well, up until a few months ago, the right to marry. And, in some states, the right to be treated in public by businesses open to the public in the same manner as everyone else.
And the right to use the appropriate bathroom in some states as well.

Spock, your concern for gays (and that of many right wingers) is touching.

SSS, PROVE that you have more concern for the well being of gay people than Spock or 'many right wingers'. You don't. All you have is a left wing political agenda that tells you that because you espouse that agenda, you are automatically more compassionate than anyone else. It is all a lie.

Denying people the right to marry is not compassionate. Denying people access to public businesses is not compassionate. Humiliating people about restrooms is not compassionate.

[Bob78164]

Exactly what civil rights are homosexual people lacking?

Well, up until a few months ago, the right to marry. And, in some states, the right to be treated in public by businesses open to the public in the same manner as everyone else.
And the right to use the appropriate bathroom in some states as well.

Let's not forget the right not to be fired based on sexual orientation. --Bob