You too can apologize to Rush Limbaugh

[SportsFan68]

This discussion would be helped by nailing down some definitions, especially of socialism, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen. I think that national single-payer health insurance is the same as Medicare, and people who are yelling "socialsim" at single payer aren't yelling it at Medicare. Same with the bailouts -- most of the people who are yelling socialism at Obama's bailout weren't yelling it at Bush's.

Medicare is socialism.

Bush's bailouts were socialism.

And I've been yelling.

Both walk and quack like socialism.

Now, should there be a little socialism mixed in with our capitalism? Is it possible? I say yes and yes. But that is where the arguments begin; where the lines are drawn on how much socialism, and where does that end and capitalism (or charity) take over.

I did not mean to paint BiT and people like him with the same brush as people who act exactly as I have described. I'll try to narrow it a bit:

Many people have yelled "socialism" at national single-payer health insurance. Many of those same people have not yelled socialism at Medicare, a program which I believe is the same as national single-payer health insurance. Some, such as BiT, have. Many people have yelled "socialism" at the bailouts which have passed since President Obama took office. Many of those same people did not yell socialism at the bailouts which passed while President Bush was in office. Some, such as BiT, did.

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

[franktangredi]

You're still the master of the loaded question on the Bored.

Thank you but I am not that smart. I thought I had asked a simple question. Can you not give me a simple answer? A yes or no will suffice. There is no intent to define what "is" or "if" is. I just want to know,

If Obama's objective is to transform the United States of America into a socialist state, do you hope he succeeds or fails? There is no hidden or underlying question. It is simply a fundamental question. Can you not answer it?

It IS a loaded question to those that don't share your viewpoint on Obama, SirG.

It is as loaded as asking "If Obama intends to install a military dictatorship, don't you hope he fails?"

Or "If Obama intends to provoke a war with Russia, don't you hope he fails?"

Or even "If Obama intends to get a young intern in the White House and rape her, don't you hope he fails?"

You could ask all sorts of questions hinting at nefarious motives on the part of Obama, and they would all be "simple questions".

But the intent and bias of those questions would be VERY clear. They're meant to "trap" the opponent instead of discussing issues with him.

The questions are divisive and unproductive towards building rational and courteous political discourse.

Good for talk radio...bad for political discourse.

I have really come to respect you! Not everyone makes a true effort to see things from viewpoints that are contrary to your own, and you consistently do so.

[BackInTex]

I have really come to respect you! Not everyone makes a true effort to see things from viewpoints that are contrary to your own, and you consistently do so.

I try to see things from others viewpoints as well, but sometimes I get oxygen deprived by leaving the bag over my head too long.

[franktangredi]

I have really come to respect you! Not everyone makes a true effort to see things from viewpoints that are contrary to your own, and you consistently do so.

I try to see things from others viewpoints as well, but sometimes I get oxygen deprived by leaving the bag over my head too long.

Sometimes, I have trouble seeing my own viewpoint. Especially if I get too long-winded.

[TheCalvinator24]

So my question is in what way is health care socialism if government gets involved but police and fire isn't? Why do those who are screaming socialism at everything President Obama is doing not screaming about those services?

If the Federal Gov't tried to take over police and fire functions, I'd start screaming about that, too.

But, hey, I'm one of those wingnuts who wants the Federal Department of Education disbanded yesterday.

[ToLiveIsToFly]

Mona Lisa Vito: Nobody could answer that question!
D.A. Jim Trotter: Your Honor, I move to disqualify Ms. Vito as a "expert witness"!
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Can you answer the question?
Mona Lisa Vito: No, it is a trick question!
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Why is it a trick question?
Vinny Gambini: [to Bill] Watch this.
Mona Lisa Vito: 'Cause Chevy didn't make a 327 in '55, the 327 didn't come out till '62. And it wasn't offered in the Bel Air with a four-barrel carb till '64. However, in 1964, the correct ignition timing would be four degrees before top-dead-center.
D.A. Jim Trotter: Well... um... she's acceptable, Your Honor.

Wow.
I must have a dirty dirty mind.
Everytime I see that movie
when she says "trick"
it sounds a LOT like "bullshit" to me.

[SportsFan68]

Mona Lisa Vito: Nobody could answer that question!
D.A. Jim Trotter: Your Honor, I move to disqualify Ms. Vito as a "expert witness"!
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Can you answer the question?
Mona Lisa Vito: No, it is a trick question!
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Why is it a trick question?
Vinny Gambini: [to Bill] Watch this.
Mona Lisa Vito: 'Cause Chevy didn't make a 327 in '55, the 327 didn't come out till '62. And it wasn't offered in the Bel Air with a four-barrel carb till '64. However, in 1964, the correct ignition timing would be four degrees before top-dead-center.
D.A. Jim Trotter: Well... um... she's acceptable, Your Honor.

Wow.
I must have a dirty dirty mind.
Everytime I see that movie
when she says "trick"
it sounds a LOT like "bullshit" to me.

I found the network TV version. It sounds like "trick question," but watch her face and it still looks like "bullshit question."

Or, maybe you have a dirty mind . . .

[MarleysGh0st]

You know, the funny thing is is that this whole episode has been overblown based on something he said, but taken out of context.

For example:

Perhaps, but when you state that your intent is to "redistribute the wealth" do you not consider that socialistic? Now I agree that I am taking one small snippet of what he said, but, to me, that is an awfully big snippet.

[NellyLunatic1980]

Mona Lisa Vito: Nobody could answer that question!
D.A. Jim Trotter: Your Honor, I move to disqualify Ms. Vito as a "expert witness"!
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Can you answer the question?
Mona Lisa Vito: No, it is a trick question!
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Why is it a trick question?
Vinny Gambini: [to Bill] Watch this.
Mona Lisa Vito: 'Cause Chevy didn't make a 327 in '55, the 327 didn't come out till '62. And it wasn't offered in the Bel Air with a four-barrel carb till '64. However, in 1964, the correct ignition timing would be four degrees before top-dead-center.
D.A. Jim Trotter: Well... um... she's acceptable, Your Honor.

Wow.
I must have a dirty dirty mind.
Everytime I see that movie
when she says "trick"
it sounds a LOT like "bullshit" to me.

I found the network TV version. It sounds like "trick question," but watch her face and it still looks like "bullshit question."

Or, maybe you have a dirty mind . . .

I've seen this movie a dozen times. She definitely says "BS question".

[Jeemie]

I have really come to respect you! Not everyone makes a true effort to see things from viewpoints that are contrary to your own, and you consistently do so.

Maybe...but all those people who have different viewpoints from me are still wrong!

[Joe Pesci]

Wow.
I must have a dirty dirty mind.
Everytime I see that movie
when she says "trick"
it sounds a LOT like "bullshit" to me.

I found the network TV version. It sounds like "trick question," but watch her face and it still looks like "bullshit question."

Or, maybe you have a dirty mind . . .

I've seen this movie a dozen times. She definitely says "BS question".

If she'da said "trick" instead of "bullshit", she wouldn'ta won the Oscar...

[SportsFan68]

Wow.
I must have a dirty dirty mind.
Everytime I see that movie
when she says "trick"
it sounds a LOT like "bullshit" to me.

I found the network TV version. It sounds like "trick question," but watch her face and it still looks like "bs question."

Or, maybe you have a dirty mind . . .

I've seen this movie a dozen times. She definitely says "BS question".

I wasn't disagreeing, Nelly. I know she says BS. I just found the network TV version for the quote.

I'll have to watch it on tape again. I also found a funny sequence they delete entirely for network TV, or maybe it's just in the interest of time.

[Jeemie]

Perhaps, but when you state that your intent is to "redistribute the wealth" do you not consider that socialistic?

Bush redistributed the wealth.

He redistributed it up.

Not just Bush.

When you look at total taxes as a percentage of income, our taxation system has been regressive since long before George W. Bush came on the scene.

Not that he helped matters any.

[SportsFan68]

If she'da said "trick" instead of "bullshit", she wouldn'ta won the Oscar...

Joe! I can't believe you weren't nominated for Best Actor! Best performance of your life!

[Bob78164]

Arguing about whether some action taken by the federal government is 'socialist' or not is irrelevant: the real issue is whether or not something is part of the federal government's charter (the Constitution), and if not, then it should not be done.

Of course, for this example the federal government pretty clearly has power under the Commerce Clause. Whether it's good policy to exercise that power in a particular manner is a separate question. --Bob

[Jeemie]

Arguing about whether some action taken by the federal government is 'socialist' or not is irrelevant: the real issue is whether or not something is part of the federal government's charter (the Constitution), and if not, then it should not be done.

Of course, for this example the federal government pretty clearly has power under the Commerce Clause. Whether it's good policy to exercise that power in a particular manner is a separate question. --Bob

Power to regulate health care under the Commerce Clause?

LOL! That's a new one!

[Thousandaire]

He thinks it's called the Communism Clause.

[Jeemie]

He thinks it's called the Communism Clause.

Actually, I think what needs further clarification is what it means to regulate, even if you're going to make that argument.

Regulation has NEVER, as far as I know, included to power to set prices and control the customer base of the business.

THAT is for sure.

[TheCalvinator24]

Arguing about whether some action taken by the federal government is 'socialist' or not is irrelevant: the real issue is whether or not something is part of the federal government's charter (the Constitution), and if not, then it should not be done.

Of course, for this example the federal government pretty clearly has power under the Commerce Clause. Whether it's good policy to exercise that power in a particular manner is a separate question. --Bob

Power to regulate health care under the Commerce Clause?

LOL! That's a new one!

I gotta say that as much as I oppose any form of socialized medicine, I would say that this is one area where the Commerce Clause can be justifiably claimed to apply.

Well, that is IF one accepts the gross over-application of the "Interstate" part of the Commerce Clause that has occurred in the past 70 years or so.

[Thousandaire]

The idea of states is so last century. We don't need them anymore except for trivia questions.

[Weyoun]

Limbaugh's a twit, and hasn't had an original thought in years. With that said, Obama demeans himself by doing this - all this promise of change, and he's trying to paint the opposition as being tools of a radio talk show host? It's almost like Rahm Emanuel is in charge.

[Jeemie]

Limbaugh's a twit, and hasn't had an original thought in years. With that said, Obama demeans himself by doing this - all this promise of change, and he's trying to paint the opposition as being tools of a radio talk show host? It's almost like Rahm Emanuel is in charge.

To be fair, if the members of the GOP hadn't fallen over ass-backwards trying to appease Limbaugh, it would have been a lot more difficult to do this.

But I agree that Obama has demeaned himself by officially playing tit-for-tat games with reporters/media members that have been critical of him.

[VAdame]

I finally clicked on the link out of sheer boredom. It says that Republicans are required to apologize to Rush.

Since I'm not a Republican (or even a Gop! tm Joy Darville Hickey Turner!), I believe I can safely ignore this, as I do all other Rush-related crapola.

Political views: Gop!

[franktangredi]

Limbaugh's a twit, and hasn't had an original thought in years. With that said, Obama demeans himself by doing this - all this promise of change, and he's trying to paint the opposition as being tools of a radio talk show host? It's almost like Rahm Emanuel is in charge.

To be fair, if the members of the GOP hadn't fallen over ass-backwards trying to appease Limbaugh, it would have been a lot more difficult to do this.

But I agree that Obama has demeaned himself by officially playing tit-for-tat games with reporters/media members that have been critical of him.

I think you're probably right about this. But let's be equally critical of the Republicans who -- at least since Nixon -- have succeeded in blaming every criticism on the "liberal media."

I've never bought into this whole "liberal media" thing. No doubt my view is somewhat skewed because I'm a liberal myself. But I've known for 30+ years that conservatives have been highly critical of the mainstream media. Know how I know that? I read about it in the mainstream media.

And every criticism I ever read about Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton I read in the mainstream media.

Nixon and Agnew were highly successful at conditioning people to discount any criticism they received from the press. (Well,at least until their actions became so objectionable that that tactic didn't work anymore.) And it's still working. You don't have to go more than three entries deep in this thread to find it tossed off as a catchphrase.

As I said, my view may be somewhat skewed by my political opinions. If you disagree with me, allow for the fact that your view may be similarly skewed.

I will admit, however, that Obama hasn't come up with a phrase to characterize his media critics anywhere near as catchy as "nattering nabobs of negativism."

[VAdame]

Speaking of Agnew, wasn't he a recent "Who the heck am I?" on Sploofus?