Question re war

[BackInTex]

By the way, this, right here, is how you know the Republican Party has devolved into a cult of personality. Whatever Dear Leader Donny wants is just a-okay with Spock (and what has become a clear majority of what's left of the Republican Party), and he feels no need to investigate further, even enough to understand just what Donny supposedly did that supposedly deterred Putin. Kind of reminds me of the 2020 Republican Party platform: "Give Donny whatever he wants." --Bob

I do know one thing that I would not have done. I would not have done everything in my power from the first moments of my administration (as the Biden Admin did)to shut down domestic oil and gas production thus raising oil prices and enriching a Petro-state (Russia) and giving Putin more foreign power flexibility.

Apparently you've missed the news that the United States has achieved energy independence. In other words, you have your facts wrong. Again. --Bob

Bob, did you read this? I certainly hope if you ever get to argue a case in a trial you don't do something like this..

That had swung to a 650,000 barrel per day surplus in 2020, and preliminary numbers for 2021 show trade pretty much in balance last year.

Let me summarize for you....during Trump (2020) we had a surplus and crossed that "energy independent line, fairly significantly. Now in 2021, yes we're still energy independent but we are slipping back to the days we weren't under Biden. Went from a 650,000 bpd surplus to break even.

[Bob Juch]

My guess is that none of the libs here have bothered to listen to Trump's interview. They are content with having it spoonfed to them by their comrades. But I suspect even if they do listen to it, their brains have been so degraded they would deny the truth even when it is right in their face. SAD. Why do we even bother to argue with them? As many have said: Truth is not a value of the left. They won't see the truth because they don't want to.

Here's TFG's entire interview. It has a link to the audio that I'm not going to read as I can't stand to hear TFG's voice again.

https://www.clayandbuck.com/president-t ... ar-a-lago/

[flockofseagulls104]

My guess is that none of the libs here have bothered to listen to Trump's interview. They are content with having it spoonfed to them by their comrades. But I suspect even if they do listen to it, their brains have been so degraded they would deny the truth even when it is right in their face. SAD. Why do we even bother to argue with them? As many have said: Truth is not a value of the left. They won't see the truth because they don't want to.

Here's TFG's entire interview. It has a link to the audio that I'm not going to read as I can't stand to hear TFG's voice again.

https://www.clayandbuck.com/president-t ... ar-a-lago/

Well, if you don't listen to it you are completely ignorant of its content. If you have any kind of truthfulness in you, after you listen to it and then read the garbage that CNN put out, you will see how you've been completely misled in this particular instance, and maybe even extrapolate to find out how badly you've been misled over the past several years. Your choice.

[wbtravis007]

I guess I would do whatever the Trump team did. For some reason, Putin's Ukraine land grabs took a 4-year vacation.

That reason was he was waiting for Donny to pull the United States out of NATO and further destabilize the European Union. Only when that plan failed (thanks to the election of President Biden) did Putin need to risk using actual troops and sanctions to achieve his goals. He was hoping Donny would win a second term, and then he could just waltz in.

So you would have (a) abandoned more allies on the battlefield, as Donny did with the Kurds, (b) pulled us out of NATO, and Donny would have done in a second term, and (c) expressed open disdain for our democratic European allies, (d) ignored legal requirements that we provide aid to the Ukraine, (e) openly cheered Russia's authoritarian actions, and the authoritarian actions of other governments, and (f) outed an undercover spy directly to the Russian government. --Bob

How did Obama's great plan work out when Putin took Crimea?

Like I said, for some reason, Putin's Ukraine land grabs took a 4-yr vacation under Trump and SSS responds with "Putin imagined" and "Putin probably thought."

You’ve said something like this more than once here. Aren’t you kind of suggesting that Putin did or didn’t do something because of what he was thinking about Trump?

Like that he “imagined” or “probably thought” something?

[wbtravis007]

You get more laughable every day.

T-girl's version of Flock's sarcasm when he can't respond to a comment by one of the Bobs or me is to call us laughable.

Yeah. No kidding. I know that I haven’t read all that many of her comments, but I honestly can’t remember a single one where she actually made a substantive point. All I can recall were just the same old thing. Disparaging somebody in a snarky way. She seems pretty bitter.

Still, though, those laughing faces and what not never get old! So, I hope that God will bless her little pea-picking heart.

[Bob Juch]

My guess is that none of the libs here have bothered to listen to Trump's interview. They are content with having it spoonfed to them by their comrades. But I suspect even if they do listen to it, their brains have been so degraded they would deny the truth even when it is right in their face. SAD. Why do we even bother to argue with them? As many have said: Truth is not a value of the left. They won't see the truth because they don't want to.

Here's TFG's entire interview. It has a link to the audio that I'm not going to read as I can't stand to hear TFG's voice again.

https://www.clayandbuck.com/president-t ... ar-a-lago/

Well, if you don't listen to it you are completely ignorant of its content. If you have any kind of truthfulness in you, after you listen to it and then read the garbage that CNN put out, you will see how you've been completely misled in this particular instance, and maybe even extrapolate to find out how badly you've been misled over the past several years. Your choice.

I can read.

[flockofseagulls104]

Here's TFG's entire interview. It has a link to the audio that I'm not going to read as I can't stand to hear TFG's voice again.

https://www.clayandbuck.com/president-t ... ar-a-lago/

Well, if you don't listen to it you are completely ignorant of its content. If you have any kind of truthfulness in you, after you listen to it and then read the garbage that CNN put out, you will see how you've been completely misled in this particular instance, and maybe even extrapolate to find out how badly you've been misled over the past several years. Your choice.

I can read.

Only what you want to. You choose to be a fool.

[flockofseagulls104]

Praying for the people of Ukraine. The Soviet Union is trying to return.

[Estonut]

Well, if you don't listen to it you are completely ignorant of its content. If you have any kind of truthfulness in you, after you listen to it and then read the garbage that CNN put out, you will see how you've been completely misled in this particular instance, and maybe even extrapolate to find out how badly you've been misled over the past several years. Your choice.

I can read.

Only what you want to. You choose to be a fool.

I doubt that's by choice...

[silverscreenselect]

Praying for the people of Ukraine. The Soviet Union is trying to return.

Flock, I sometimes wonder how you can look at yourself in the mirror every morning. I'm surprised you have any prayers left for the Ukrainians after raining them on Trump and Putin.

[Estonut]

Here's TFG's entire interview. It has a link to the audio that I'm not going to read as I can't stand to hear TFG's voice again.

https://www.clayandbuck.com/president-t ... ar-a-lago/

Well, if you don't listen to it you are completely ignorant of its content. If you have any kind of truthfulness in you, after you listen to it and then read the garbage that CNN put out, you will see how you've been completely misled in this particular instance, and maybe even extrapolate to find out how badly you've been misled over the past several years. Your choice.

I can read.

Here's the relevant section. Reading it, it's clearly sarcastic. Even moreso on audio. Please indicate where, exactly, he "praises" Putin.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, what went wrong was a rigged election and what went wrong is a candidate that shouldn’t be there and a man that has no concept of what he’s doing. I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, “This is genius.” Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.

So, Putin is now saying, “It’s independent,” a large section of Ukraine. I said, “How smart is that?” And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force… We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… I know him very well. Very, very well.

By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened. But here’s a guy that says, you know, “I’m gonna declare a big portion of Ukraine independent,” he used the word “independent,” “and we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.” You gotta say that’s pretty savvy. And you know what the response was from Biden? There was no response. They didn’t have one for that. No, it’s very sad. Very sad.

[kroxquo]

Well, if you don't listen to it you are completely ignorant of its content. If you have any kind of truthfulness in you, after you listen to it and then read the garbage that CNN put out, you will see how you've been completely misled in this particular instance, and maybe even extrapolate to find out how badly you've been misled over the past several years. Your choice.

I can read.

Here's the relevant section. Reading it, it's clearly sarcastic. Even moreso on audio. Please indicate where, exactly, he "praises" Putin.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, what went wrong was a rigged election and what went wrong is a candidate that shouldn’t be there and a man that has no concept of what he’s doing. I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, “This is genius.” Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.

So, Putin is now saying, “It’s independent,” a large section of Ukraine. I said, “How smart is that?” And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force… We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… I know him very well. Very, very well.

By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened. But here’s a guy that says, you know, “I’m gonna declare a big portion of Ukraine independent,” he used the word “independent,” “and we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.” You gotta say that’s pretty savvy. And you know what the response was from Biden? There was no response. They didn’t have one for that. No, it’s very sad. Very sad.

I did listen to the audio and I am willing to concede that you are right to a certain point; he was being sarcastic although I don't think as thoroughly as you seem to believe. But just for the sake of argument, let's say you are entirely correct. Here are some takeaways I would point out -

1) He uses a completely unrelated question to reinforce his lie that the election was rigged. I am past the point of wondering if he sincerely believes this or not, but by doing so, he is continuing to undermine faith in our electoral system
2) I would say that calling his actions "genius" (his word) would constitute praise, sarcastic or not.
3) He states that "we could use that on our southern border." Again, sarcastic or not, that would seem to be admiration of his tactics.
4) There is a total contextual and historical tone deafness. We are in the middle of a crisis where Russia is threatening to invade a country we have pledged to protect and for him to make a statement that might be misconstrued as support for the actions of our enemy is irresponsible at best.
5). Conspicuous in its absence is any condemnation of Putin's actions. Nowhere in all this sarcasm is there any indication that he disapproves of Russian aggression. Neither has there been any denial or clarification of his statements stating that he was taken out of context or misinterpreted. The silence on that part speaks volumes.

[flockofseagulls104]

I can read.

Here's the relevant section. Reading it, it's clearly sarcastic. Even moreso on audio. Please indicate where, exactly, he "praises" Putin.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, what went wrong was a rigged election and what went wrong is a candidate that shouldn’t be there and a man that has no concept of what he’s doing. I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, “This is genius.” Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.

So, Putin is now saying, “It’s independent,” a large section of Ukraine. I said, “How smart is that?” And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force… We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… I know him very well. Very, very well.

By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened. But here’s a guy that says, you know, “I’m gonna declare a big portion of Ukraine independent,” he used the word “independent,” “and we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.” You gotta say that’s pretty savvy. And you know what the response was from Biden? There was no response. They didn’t have one for that. No, it’s very sad. Very sad.

I did listen to the audio and I am willing to concede that you are right to a certain point; he was being sarcastic although I don't think as thoroughly as you seem to believe. But just for the sake of argument, let's say you are entirely correct. Here are some takeaways I would point out -

1) He uses a completely unrelated question to reinforce his lie that the election was rigged. I am past the point of wondering if he sincerely believes this or not, but by doing so, he is continuing to undermine faith in our electoral system
2) I would say that calling his actions "genius" (his word) would constitute praise, sarcastic or not.
3) He states that "we could use that on our southern border." Again, sarcastic or not, that would seem to be admiration of his tactics.
4) There is a total contextual and historical tone deafness. We are in the middle of a crisis where Russia is threatening to invade a country we have pledged to protect and for him to make a statement that might be misconstrued as support for the actions of our enemy is irresponsible at best.
5). Conspicuous in its absence is any condemnation of Putin's actions. Nowhere in all this sarcasm is there any indication that he disapproves of Russian aggression. Neither has there been any denial or clarification of his statements stating that he was taken out of context or misinterpreted. The silence on that part speaks volumes.

Yeah Krox, he didn't say what he meant in the exact words I would have preferred he used either. But the point is that CNN and the other MSM knew what he meant. Even if they had some doubts, like you pointed out, they did not take them into account. They reported it strictly by their own chosen narrative. They outright lied in their headlines and their 'analysis' about what he communicated. And so, fools like BJ, that don't have the 'time' to examine things for themselves, will take it as gospel. And they've been doing that for years.

Why wasn't the headline "Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened."? That is more in line with what he was communicating. And you know it. And CNN knows it.

[silverscreenselect]

They outright lied in their headlines and their 'analysis' about what he communicated. And so, fools like BJ, that don't have the 'time' to examine things for themselves, will take it as gospel. And they've been doing that for years.

Trump has been playing this fake sarcasm game for years and people like Flock continue to fall for it and cover for him. He says things that he knows will have a favorable impact on his intended audience and then has his lackeys ready to cover for him with the ready explanation that he really didn't mean what he said.

It's one thing for someone posting on a bulletin Bored to trot out bad sarcasm. It's another for a President or ex-President of the United States to do so. Saying that Joe Biden's policy towards the Ukraine was weak and that this wouldn't have happened had Trump remained President is a legitimate (although I believe wrongheaded) point of view. Calling Putin a genius and savvy at a time that's less than 24 hours from when the rockets start firing is disgusting and counter-productive. That's giving aid and comfort to the enemy of the people for whom Flock was shedding crocodile tears just a few posts ago. Trump should know that his words matter and how and what he says matters. He's been saying hurtful and harmful things (drink bleach) for years and we hear the same excuses time after time. You didn't hear ex-President Bush talk like this in his comments.

[silverscreenselect]

Why wasn't the headline "Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened."? That is more in line with what he was communicating. And you know it. And CNN knows it.

If that was Trump's lead, why did he bury it in the third paragraph. Before that, we heard:

1) The election was rigged
2) This is genius. Oh that's wonderful.
3) We need this type of force on our southern border.
4) A guy who's very, very savvy. (which he repeats again after his claim this wouldn't have happened had he been president)

As anyone who knows anything about journalism will tell your, you don't bury the lead in the third article of a story. Any reputable news organization in the world would have gone with Trump's earlier and more prominent quotes as their headline.

[Spock]

That reason was he was waiting for Donny to pull the United States out of NATO and further destabilize the European Union. Only when that plan failed (thanks to the election of President Biden) did Putin need to risk using actual troops and sanctions to achieve his goals. He was hoping Donny would win a second term, and then he could just waltz in.

So you would have (a) abandoned more allies on the battlefield, as Donny did with the Kurds, (b) pulled us out of NATO, and Donny would have done in a second term, and (c) expressed open disdain for our democratic European allies, (d) ignored legal requirements that we provide aid to the Ukraine, (e) openly cheered Russia's authoritarian actions, and the authoritarian actions of other governments, and (f) outed an undercover spy directly to the Russian government. --Bob

How did Obama's great plan work out when Putin took Crimea?

Like I said, for some reason, Putin's Ukraine land grabs took a 4-yr vacation under Trump and SSS responds with "Putin imagined" and "Putin probably thought."

You’ve said something like this more than once here. Aren’t you kind of suggesting that Putin did or didn’t do something because of what he was thinking about Trump?

Like that he “imagined” or “probably thought” something?

Nope, I did not say anything of the sort. I am simply looking at historical fact.

Putin made a major move on the Ukraine when Obama was president and he took Crimea. Obviously, he is currrently making a major move on the Ukraine when Biden is president.

Conversely, for some reason, he did not make a move on the Ukraine when Trump was president.

[kroxquo]

Yeah Krox, he didn't say what he meant in the exact words I would have preferred he used either. But the point is that CNN and the other MSM knew what he meant. Even if they had some doubts, like you pointed out, they did not take them into account. They reported it strictly by their own chosen narrative. They outright lied in their headlines and their 'analysis' about what he communicated. And so, fools like BJ, that don't have the 'time' to examine things for themselves, will take it as gospel. And they've been doing that for years.

Why wasn't the headline "Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened."? That is more in line with what he was communicating. And you know it. And CNN knows it.

This is more than just a slip of the tongue or a poor choice of words. I conceded the sarcasm to an extent but he has to be aware that his words matter and are influential and I will still maintain that his statement shows gross irresponsibility to the gravity of the situation. I do think that in his mind that he really does believe that this would not have occurred on his watch. I don't see any evidence to back that up. But it comes amid the bluster of admiration for a dictator trying to expand his power and self-serving self-aggrandizement. And please don't try to convince me that if President Obama had said those same exact words that Fox, OAN, Newsmax et al would not be blasting it out exactly the same way.

[Bob Juch]

I can read.

Only what you want to. You choose to be a fool.

I doubt that's by choice...

So here we have another Bored stalker.

[flockofseagulls104]

Yeah Krox, he didn't say what he meant in the exact words I would have preferred he used either. But the point is that CNN and the other MSM knew what he meant. Even if they had some doubts, like you pointed out, they did not take them into account. They reported it strictly by their own chosen narrative. They outright lied in their headlines and their 'analysis' about what he communicated. And so, fools like BJ, that don't have the 'time' to examine things for themselves, will take it as gospel. And they've been doing that for years.

Why wasn't the headline "Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened."? That is more in line with what he was communicating. And you know it. And CNN knows it.

This is more than just a slip of the tongue or a poor choice of words. I conceded the sarcasm to an extent but he has to be aware that his words matter and are influential and I will still maintain that his statement shows gross irresponsibility to the gravity of the situation. I do think that in his mind that he really does believe that this would not have occurred on his watch. I don't see any evidence to back that up. But it comes amid the bluster of admiration for a dictator trying to expand his power and self-serving self-aggrandizement. And please don't try to convince me that if President Obama had said those same exact words that Fox, OAN, Newsmax et al would not be blasting it out exactly the same way.

You have missed the point completely. CNN: Trump praises Putin (isn't that awful). Trump: Putin is executing his evil plan brilliantly, and is outplaying Biden's team and the rest of the world.

Trump says he would not have allowed that to happen. There is no evidence, because he is not in charge. But, as stated before, Putin did not do this in the 4 years between taking Crimea and now going after Ukraine. It can be legitimately argued that Putin is taking advantage of what he perceives as weakness, and Trump, whatever else you want to say about him, did not project weakness.

Again: Truth is not a value of the left.

[silverscreenselect]

It can be legitimately argued that Putin is taking advantage of what he perceives as weakness, and Trump, whatever else you want to say about him, did not project weakness.

Constantly fawning up to dictators and praising them is not a show of strength.

[Bob Juch]

Yeah Krox, he didn't say what he meant in the exact words I would have preferred he used either. But the point is that CNN and the other MSM knew what he meant. Even if they had some doubts, like you pointed out, they did not take them into account. They reported it strictly by their own chosen narrative. They outright lied in their headlines and their 'analysis' about what he communicated. And so, fools like BJ, that don't have the 'time' to examine things for themselves, will take it as gospel. And they've been doing that for years.

Why wasn't the headline "Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened."? That is more in line with what he was communicating. And you know it. And CNN knows it.

This is more than just a slip of the tongue or a poor choice of words. I conceded the sarcasm to an extent but he has to be aware that his words matter and are influential and I will still maintain that his statement shows gross irresponsibility to the gravity of the situation. I do think that in his mind that he really does believe that this would not have occurred on his watch. I don't see any evidence to back that up. But it comes amid the bluster of admiration for a dictator trying to expand his power and self-serving self-aggrandizement. And please don't try to convince me that if President Obama had said those same exact words that Fox, OAN, Newsmax et al would not be blasting it out exactly the same way.

You have missed the point completely. CNN: Trump praises Putin (isn't that awful). Trump: Putin is executing his evil plan brilliantly, and is outplaying Biden's team and the rest of the world.

Trump says he would not have allowed that to happen. There is no evidence, because he is not in charge. But, as stated before, Putin did not do this in the 4 years between taking Crimea and now going after Ukraine. It can be legitimately argued that Putin is taking advantage of what he perceives as weakness, and Trump, whatever else you want to say about him, did not project weakness.

Again: Truth is not a value of the left.

TFG did not project weakness?? Have you listened to his word salad speeches?

[wbtravis007]

How did Obama's great plan work out when Putin took Crimea?

Like I said, for some reason, Putin's Ukraine land grabs took a 4-yr vacation under Trump and SSS responds with "Putin imagined" and "Putin probably thought."

You’ve said something like this more than once here. Aren’t you kind of suggesting that Putin did or didn’t do something because of what he was thinking about Trump?

Like that he “imagined” or “probably thought” something?

Nope, I did not say anything of the sort. I am simply looking at historical fact.

Putin made a major move on the Ukraine when Obama was president and he took Crimea. Obviously, he is currrently making a major move on the Ukraine when Biden is president.

Conversely, for some reason, he did not make a move on the Ukraine when Trump was president.

More than once here you’ve mocked people responding to your statement of fact with an explanation of why that might have happened by suggesting that they are trying to evaluate Putins motives or reasoning, most recently by saying: “SSS responds with ‘Putin imagined’ and ‘Putin probably thought.’ “

Can’t you see that either you’re doing the same thing or your statement of fact has no significance, other than being a coincidence? Are you really saying now that your “statement of fact” was not intended to suggest anything at all about what Putin probably thought or imagined about Trump?

[silverscreenselect]

Yeah Krox, he didn't say what he meant in the exact words I would have preferred he used either. But the point is that CNN and the other MSM knew what he meant. Even if they had some doubts, like you pointed out, they did not take them into account. They reported it strictly by their own chosen narrative. They outright lied in their headlines and their 'analysis' about what he communicated. And so, fools like BJ, that don't have the 'time' to examine things for themselves, will take it as gospel. And they've been doing that for years.

Why wasn't the headline "Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened."? That is more in line with what he was communicating. And you know it. And CNN knows it.

This is more than just a slip of the tongue or a poor choice of words. I conceded the sarcasm to an extent but he has to be aware that his words matter and are influential and I will still maintain that his statement shows gross irresponsibility to the gravity of the situation. I do think that in his mind that he really does believe that this would not have occurred on his watch. I don't see any evidence to back that up. But it comes amid the bluster of admiration for a dictator trying to expand his power and self-serving self-aggrandizement. And please don't try to convince me that if President Obama had said those same exact words that Fox, OAN, Newsmax et al would not be blasting it out exactly the same way.

You have missed the point completely. CNN: Trump praises Putin (isn't that awful). Trump: Putin is executing his evil plan brilliantly, and is outplaying Biden's team and the rest of the world.

Funny, I didn't see a single word in Trump's comments that was critical of Putin in any way. I certainly didn't see the word "evil." I did see the words "genius," "savvy," "smart," and "wonderful" being used to describe Putin among the carping about the rigged election and the southern border. CNN or any news organization shouldn't put something in the headlines that exists only in your mind.

[Bob Juch]

If you haven't seen today's news, Russia has performed missile and rocket attacks all over Ukraine, from end to end.

They had helicopters drop paratroopers who took over an airfield 20 miles from downtown Kyiv.

This is not peacekeeping. It seems their goal is to remove the elected leaders and to install pro-Russia ones.

[flockofseagulls104]

If you haven't seen today's news, Russia has performed missile and rocket attacks all over Ukraine, from end to end.

They had helicopters drop paratroopers who took over an airfield 20 miles from downtown Kyiv.

This is not peacekeeping. It seems their goal is to remove the elected leaders and to install pro-Russia ones.

Thank you Captain Obvious, Chairman of the Useful Idiots Committee.
You are the poster boy for pissing in the wind.