It Is Probably Nothing

[Beebs52]

Could this be what was described?
https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-repo ... identified

I like how you offered a picture of a cartoon.

That’s great.

Clots dark in color because they build up with red cells and other debris.

Platelets have a light gray-white color under microscope, but the rest of the coagulation cascade, like fibrin, is dark.

Anyway, I thought it was super cute that you posted an article about how Covid causes clotting. Yes it does. Yes it does.

Cartoon? Are you fucking serious? Have you had dinner or anything?

Plus, every pic of a covid molecule is a "cartoon".

[Weyoun]

I would also point out that I would think that Funeral Directors and/or enbalmers would be given the information as to whether the body they are handling was infected with covid, and also whether they had been vaccinated before they died. I think that would be important information for a funeral director or anyone else handling a dead body to know.

Well, Flock, you're half right. The funeral director does complete part of the death certificate. According to the Vital Statistics Registration System, which is part of the CDC, the duties of the funeral director include;

The Vital Statistics Registration System in the United States for Death Certificates
Duties of each responsible person or agency
Funeral director

Obtains personal facts about decedent and completes certificate.
Obtains certification of cause of death from attending physician or medical examiner or coroner.
Obtains authorization for final disposition per state law.
Files certificate with local office or state office per state law.

So, the funeral director would have access to the cause of death, but not any other ailments the deceased may have had or their medical history, including any sorts of medications or vaccinations. That information is protected under HIPAA privacy rules. So, a funeral director with some medical background could make some guesses about possible ailments the deceased had, but there's no way to tell whether someone had or had not been vaccinated.

Um, are you kidding me? Vaccine status is protected under hipaa rules? What about these mandates requiring you to present your vaccine cards? I thought hipaa was thrown under the bus a long time ago.

Please note that he pointed out a great fact and your response was just ignore everything he said.

There’s no reason that the embalmer would know about anyone’s vaccine status.

[Weyoun]

I like how you offered a picture of a cartoon.

That’s great.

Clots dark in color because they build up with red cells and other debris.

Platelets have a light gray-white color under microscope, but the rest of the coagulation cascade, like fibrin, is dark.

Anyway, I thought it was super cute that you posted an article about how Covid causes clotting. Yes it does. Yes it does.

Cartoon? Are you fucking serious? Have you had dinner or anything?

Plus, every pic of a covid molecule is a "cartoon".

Right, but no dumbass is posting that they’re pulling long stringy white chains of Covid out of dead people

[Weyoun]

Could this be what was described?
https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-repo ... identified

And what do they look like in someone who's been dead for a day or two? Probably been a while since the smartest person on the board opened up and looked inside someone already dead. Maybe not.

I've always found it interesting that some of the "smartest" people I know are so very lacking in common sense.

I’m not sure why your family reunions are relevant here.

[flockofseagulls104]

Well, Flock, you're half right. The funeral director does complete part of the death certificate. According to the Vital Statistics Registration System, which is part of the CDC, the duties of the funeral director include;



So, the funeral director would have access to the cause of death, but not any other ailments the deceased may have had or their medical history, including any sorts of medications or vaccinations. That information is protected under HIPAA privacy rules. So, a funeral director with some medical background could make some guesses about possible ailments the deceased had, but there's no way to tell whether someone had or had not been vaccinated.

Um, are you kidding me? Vaccine status is protected under hipaa rules? What about these mandates requiring you to present your vaccine cards? I thought hipaa was thrown under the bus a long time ago.

Please note that he pointed out a great fact and your response was just ignore everything he said.

There’s no reason that the embalmer would know about anyone’s vaccine status.

You have no leg to stand on when it comes to ignoring things.
You ignored my point. Where the hell is hipaa when it comes to not allowing people in a concert hall unless they prove they have been vaccinated? Isn't one's medical history supposed to be private?
As per the funeral director or embalmer, it is as simple as asking the family if the deceased was vaccinated, if they wanted to document that for their study. The family could decide whether they wanted to answer or not.
God, you people are so belligerent in protecting your narratives.

[Beebs52]

Cartoon? Are you fucking serious? Have you had dinner or anything?

Plus, every pic of a covid molecule is a "cartoon".

Right, but no dumbass is posting that they’re pulling long stringy white chains of Covid out of dead people

The Mich thing wasn't a cartoon. It was the white cell weirdness. Do you read English?

[tlynn78]

And what do they look like in someone who's been dead for a day or two? Probably been a while since the smartest person on the board opened up and looked inside someone already dead. Maybe not.

I've always found it interesting that some of the "smartest" people I know are so very lacking in common sense.

I’m not sure why your family reunions are relevant here.

I'm not sure you know the relevance of much of anything.
You'll need to check with Bob for direction on what's relevant, though; he's the self-appointed arbiter of what's relevant for Bored posts.
I'm flattered you think I must have smart family members though... well, I'd be flattered if I gave a single s$!& what you think.

[Weyoun]

Could this be what was described?
https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-repo ... identified

I like how you offered a picture of a cartoon.

That’s great.

Clots dark in color because they build up with red cells and other debris.

Platelets have a light gray-white color under microscope, but the rest of the coagulation cascade, like fibrin, is dark.

Anyway, I thought it was super cute that you posted an article about how Covid causes clotting. Yes it does. Yes it does.

Cartoon? Are you fucking serious? Have you had dinner or anything?

Just insults? You posted an article about how Covid causes all sorts of clotting.

Maybe, just maybe, all these dead bodies with these weird clots had Covid!

Though again I think he’s making it up. His description of clots does not sound like clots. Next time Google actual pictures of clots, and not your cartoons.

The only thing I can think of that would be white and stringy is something called a fat embolism. That tends to be more of a yellow color. Those happen with a long bone fracture. The fat in the marrow causes an embolism. Doesn’t sound like that here.

You keep mocking my expertise - but always remember, it is more than what you know.

Here is an article you can read. Warning: no cartoons

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... embalmers/

[Beebs52]

I like how you offered a picture of a cartoon.

That’s great.

Clots dark in color because they build up with red cells and other debris.

Platelets have a light gray-white color under microscope, but the rest of the coagulation cascade, like fibrin, is dark.

Anyway, I thought it was super cute that you posted an article about how Covid causes clotting. Yes it does. Yes it does.

Cartoon? Are you fucking serious? Have you had dinner or anything?

Just insults? You posted an article about how Covid causes all sorts of clotting.

Maybe, just maybe, all these dead bodies with these weird clots had Covid!

Though again I think he’s making it up. His description of clots does not sound like clots. Next time Google actual pictures of clots, and not your cartoons.

The only thing I can think of that would be white and stringy is something called a fat embolism. That tends to be more of a yellow color. Those happen with a long bone fracture. The fat in the marrow causes an embolism. Doesn’t sound like that here.

You keep mocking my expertise - but always remember, it is more than what you know.

Here is an article you can read. Warning: no cartoons

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... embalmers/

I understand. Was the Michigan thing which may have been misunderstood by others totally wrong? And you still keep using exclamation points!!!

[Weyoun]

Plus, every pic of a covid molecule is a "cartoon".

Right, but no dumbass is posting that they’re pulling long stringy white chains of Covid out of dead people

The Mich thing wasn't a cartoon. It was the white cell weirdness. Do you read English?

There is nothing in that article about white clots.

The cartoon starts with a thrombus forming. Platelets agglutinate first. They have a white-gray color. But they are very small and not enough to form a sizable clot by themselves. To be clear, they are essential for clot formation, which is why dipyramidole is mentioned in the article as a possible anti thrombosis therapy in Covid.

But need the other elements of the coagulation cascade to trigger clot formation. Things like thrombin and fibrin. Red cells coalesce also. All this stuff together creates a dark red blob - that is, “clotted blood.” There are not enough platelets to form a stringy white mass, and the chemical pathways trigger by vessel damage would not lead to an isolated huge agglutination of platelets alone.

White cells themselves don’t clot. They don’t have the “stickiness” or way to coalesce. But when pissed off by inflammation they can release procoagulation factors, such as tissue factor and cytokines, that trigger platelets to clot. That’s their role in clot formation.

[Weyoun]

Cartoon? Are you fucking serious? Have you had dinner or anything?

Just insults? You posted an article about how Covid causes all sorts of clotting.

Maybe, just maybe, all these dead bodies with these weird clots had Covid!

Though again I think he’s making it up. His description of clots does not sound like clots. Next time Google actual pictures of clots, and not your cartoons.

The only thing I can think of that would be white and stringy is something called a fat embolism. That tends to be more of a yellow color. Those happen with a long bone fracture. The fat in the marrow causes an embolism. Doesn’t sound like that here.

You keep mocking my expertise - but always remember, it is more than what you know.

Here is an article you can read. Warning: no cartoons

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... embalmers/

I understand. Was the Michigan thing which may have been misunderstood by others totally wrong? And you still keep using exclamation points!!!

Their article isn’t wrong. You just don’t understand it! It talks about neutrophils and antibodies triggering a coagulation cascade, which really is a thing and not really controversial, nor demonstrative of any point you think you are making.

[Beebs52]

Just insults? You posted an article about how Covid causes all sorts of clotting.

Maybe, just maybe, all these dead bodies with these weird clots had Covid!

Though again I think he’s making it up. His description of clots does not sound like clots. Next time Google actual pictures of clots, and not your cartoons.

The only thing I can think of that would be white and stringy is something called a fat embolism. That tends to be more of a yellow color. Those happen with a long bone fracture. The fat in the marrow causes an embolism. Doesn’t sound like that here.

You keep mocking my expertise - but always remember, it is more than what you know.

Here is an article you can read. Warning: no cartoons

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... embalmers/

I understand. Was the Michigan thing which may have been misunderstood by others totally wrong? And you still keep using exclamation points!!!

Their article isn’t wrong. You just don’t understand it! It talks about neutrophils and antibodies triggering a coagulation cascade, which really is a thing and not really controversial, nor demonstrative of any point you think you are making.

I said maybe THEY MISUNDERSTOOD when they used it. Jeez. Read my fucking posts.

[Beebs52]

Also, what cartoon?

[tlynn78]

I understand. Was the Michigan thing which may have been misunderstood by others totally wrong? And you still keep using exclamation points!!!

Their article isn’t wrong. You just don’t understand it! It talks about neutrophils and antibodies triggering a coagulation cascade, which really is a thing and not really controversial, nor demonstrative of any point you think you are making.

I said maybe THEY MISUNDERSTOOD when they used it. Jeez. Read my fucking posts.

Too busy researching the answer he wants to give to pay attention to your comments. Besides, you're just a girl.

[Bob78164]

Also, what cartoon?

The illustration at the top of the article you linked is fairly described as a cartoon. It's certainly not a photograph. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

Their article isn’t wrong. You just don’t understand it! It talks about neutrophils and antibodies triggering a coagulation cascade, which really is a thing and not really controversial, nor demonstrative of any point you think you are making.

I said maybe THEY MISUNDERSTOOD when they used it. Jeez. Read my fucking posts.

Too busy researching the answer he wants to give to pay attention to your comments. Besides, you're just a girl.

Read something? Do you really expect someone of his stature and brilliance to read something before responding to it? Are you out of your mind?

[flockofseagulls104]

I said maybe THEY MISUNDERSTOOD when they used it. Jeez. Read my fucking posts.

Too busy researching the answer he wants to give to pay attention to your comments. Besides, you're just a girl.

Read something? Do you really expect someone of his stature and brilliance to read something before responding to it? Are you out of your mind?

Besides, he needs to get his mind off the hipaa point I made by throwing his big words at you. It looks like he and SSS haven't found something to deflect that, so they are ignoring it.

[silverscreenselect]

Where the hell is hipaa when it comes to not allowing people in a concert hall unless they prove they have been vaccinated? Isn't one's medical history supposed to be private?
As per the funeral director or embalmer, it is as simple as asking the family if the deceased was vaccinated, if they wanted to document that for their study. The family could decide whether they wanted to answer or not.

Well, Flock, unfortunately you've retreated from being half right to completely wrong. HIPAA privacy requirements apply to health plans and health care providers. It prohibits the release of medical records without the consent of the patient. Anyone can ask for records, but it's up to the patient to decide whether to provide them. So no embalmer or funeral director could ask any health care provider about a patient's health care status.

You're assuming, based on what we like to refer to as wishful thinking, that all the deceaseds who exhibited these suspicious clots (a) had family members who revealed to an embalmer that they were vaccinated, and (b) didn't have COVID.

Here's a quote from one of your articles:

Earlier this month, Hirschman told Steve Kirsch, the Executive Director of the Vaccine Research Center, that in Jan 2022, 37 out of 57 bodies (65 percent) had these suspicious clots.

Think about this. According to this guy, two-thirds of all the bodies he came across in one month from all causes, which would include accidents, cancer, and everything else, had these "suspicious clots." Death rates from pulmonary embolisms have been on the increase in this country for years before COVID and certainly before the vaccine. But still, according to the CDC, about 100,000 people die of blood clots each year. These articles don't indicate what the cause of death was for these 37 people. But for a disease that's responsible for approximately 1 in every 30 deaths in this country suddenly was responsible for two-thirds of the deaths, somebody would notice besides a handful of embalmers. You would also think the number of deaths in this country since the beginning of 2021 would have skyrocketed beyond the COVID figures if these figures were anywhere near accurate.

Here's another quote:

The CDC says around 65,000 people die a week. So that would be 26,000 people a week killed by the vaccine. He started noticing these deaths in May (they could have started sooner), so let’s just say it’s only been in the last 6 months to be conservative. 26 weeks *26,000 deaths/week=676,000 vaccine-related deaths.

Now, in the last six months of 2021, according to Wikipedia, about 175,000 people in the US died of COVID. You would think if this mysterious vaccine disease killed over three times that many, our death rate in the country would have skyrocketed even further. Thanks to COVID, the number of deaths in this country increased by 17% from 2019 to 2020. If these claims are anywhere near accurate, we should have seen an even more dramatic increase in the number of deaths in 2021.

[Weyoun]

Too busy researching the answer he wants to give to pay attention to your comments. Besides, you're just a girl.

Read something? Do you really expect someone of his stature and brilliance to read something before responding to it? Are you out of your mind?

Besides, he needs to get his mind off the hipaa point I made by throwing his big words at you. It looks like he and SSS haven't found something to deflect that, so they are ignoring it.

Your HIPAA point was stupid. A funeral home director has no more reason to know whether not the dead body was someone who was vaccinated, any more than if that person had an allergy to Bactrim.

To clarify what was said above by someone else, they don’t even record the cause of death. That’s usually the patient’s primary care doctor. This is an embalmer, NOT a coroner or medical examiner.

The embalmer just prepares the body for burial.

So obviously it was a huge red flag when this guy was announcing that all of these people were vaccinated. He would have no way of knowing.

But the rest of the story was bullshit also. As explained, and you have chosen to ignore, these stringy white clots he’s talking about do not make sense from a physiological perspective. Your cartoon aside.

I realize I’m not gonna convince you. The nice thing is, nothing will come of this guy’s claims, just like the other 15 things you folks are making up. You’ll move on to something else by next week.

[silverscreenselect]

A funeral home director has no more reason to know whether not the dead body was someone who was vaccinated, any more than if that person had an allergy to Bactrim.

To clarify what was said above by someone else, they don’t even record the cause of death. That’s usually the patient’s primary care doctor. This is an embalmer, NOT a coroner or medical examiner.

The embalmer just prepares the body for burial.

According to one of Flock's articles, this embalmer contracts his services out to various funeral home directors in the area. So, he would have no contact with the families of the deceased in the course of his work. Even if, for some reason, the family mentioned to the funeral director that the deceased was vaccinated, they have a code of ethics that prohibits revealing confidential information. So, this guy got his "information" in one of two ways: (1) either every single one of the funeral directors for whom he worked had access to the vaccination status of these mysterious deceaseds and violated their code of ethics by revealing it to the embalmer, or (2) the embalmer contacted every one of the families and they all revealed the information to him without a single one complaining to the authorities about an embalmer asking about personal medical information.

Or (3) this guy pretty much invented this information out of whole cloth.

[Weyoun]

A funeral home director has no more reason to know whether not the dead body was someone who was vaccinated, any more than if that person had an allergy to Bactrim.

To clarify what was said above by someone else, they don’t even record the cause of death. That’s usually the patient’s primary care doctor. This is an embalmer, NOT a coroner or medical examiner.

The embalmer just prepares the body for burial.

According to one of Flock's articles, this embalmer contracts his services out to various funeral home directors in the area. So, he would have no contact with the families of the deceased in the course of his work. Even if, for some reason, the family mentioned to the funeral director that the deceased was vaccinated, they have a code of ethics that prohibits revealing confidential information. So, this guy got his "information" in one of two ways: (1) either every single one of the funeral directors for whom he worked had access to the vaccination status of these mysterious deceaseds and violated their code of ethics by revealing it to the embalmer, or (2) the embalmer contacted every one of the families and they all revealed the information to him without a single one complaining to the authorities about an embalmer asking about personal medical information.

Or (3) this guy pretty much invented this information out of whole cloth.

It’s obvious guy is making up stuff. You’ve done a great job as to explaining why. Statistically and medically, what he’s saying makes no sense, even if you make multiple other leaps in logic.

My favorite part is all the deaths that happened in January that this guy was noticing. Because Omicron TOTALLY wasn’t peaking around then.

It’s more likely his formaldehyde has gone bad.

FWIW even if all these folks died from Omicron I would call bullshit to these “white stringy clots.”

Maybe if we would be more convincing if we drew a CARTOON.

[flockofseagulls104]

Where the hell is hipaa when it comes to not allowing people in a concert hall unless they prove they have been vaccinated? Isn't one's medical history supposed to be private?
As per the funeral director or embalmer, it is as simple as asking the family if the deceased was vaccinated, if they wanted to document that for their study. The family could decide whether they wanted to answer or not.

Well, Flock, unfortunately you've retreated from being half right to completely wrong. HIPAA privacy requirements apply to health plans and health care providers. It prohibits the release of medical records without the consent of the patient. Anyone can ask for records, but it's up to the patient to decide whether to provide them. So no embalmer or funeral director could ask any health care provider about a patient's health care status.

You're assuming, based on what we like to refer to as wishful thinking, that all the deceaseds who exhibited these suspicious clots (a) had family members who revealed to an embalmer that they were vaccinated, and (b) didn't have COVID.

Here's a quote from one of your articles:

Earlier this month, Hirschman told Steve Kirsch, the Executive Director of the Vaccine Research Center, that in Jan 2022, 37 out of 57 bodies (65 percent) had these suspicious clots.

Think about this. According to this guy, two-thirds of all the bodies he came across in one month from all causes, which would include accidents, cancer, and everything else, had these "suspicious clots." Death rates from pulmonary embolisms have been on the increase in this country for years before COVID and certainly before the vaccine. But still, according to the CDC, about 100,000 people die of blood clots each year. These articles don't indicate what the cause of death was for these 37 people. But for a disease that's responsible for approximately 1 in every 30 deaths in this country suddenly was responsible for two-thirds of the deaths, somebody would notice besides a handful of embalmers. You would also think the number of deaths in this country since the beginning of 2021 would have skyrocketed beyond the COVID figures if these figures were anywhere near accurate.

Here's another quote:

The CDC says around 65,000 people die a week. So that would be 26,000 people a week killed by the vaccine. He started noticing these deaths in May (they could have started sooner), so let’s just say it’s only been in the last 6 months to be conservative. 26 weeks *26,000 deaths/week=676,000 vaccine-related deaths.

Now, in the last six months of 2021, according to Wikipedia, about 175,000 people in the US died of COVID. You would think if this mysterious vaccine disease killed over three times that many, our death rate in the country would have skyrocketed even further. Thanks to COVID, the number of deaths in this country increased by 17% from 2019 to 2020. If these claims are anywhere near accurate, we should have seen an even more dramatic increase in the number of deaths in 2021.

Like I said, you guys get belligerent when anyone challenges your narrative. And, once again, you completely ignored the main point.

First the side questions:

How the hell can an employer REQUIRE someone to tell them their vaccination status? How can a restaurant owner refuse to serve anyone without a vaccination card? How the hell do you know who is an 'antivaxxer'? (Another question dr. weyoun has ignored. I still don't know what his definition is.)

Your HIPAA point was stupid. A funeral home director has no more reason to know whether not the dead body was someone who was vaccinated, any more than if that person had an allergy to Bactrim.

If this guy noticed these clots and was curious, why shouldn't he just try and ask the family? They can only say they won't answer. But they probably won't, because in the current climate, you let anyone who asks know if you're vaccinated. Most people brag about it.

And if you bothered to actually read what I wrote, you would have noticed that I did not venture any opinion as to the validity of the articles. My issue was with dr. weyoun's bigoted and elitist tone in responding to it. Which is a common trait among the usual suspects on this bored. Spare me your bullshit analysis and denigration of Mr Hirschman's study. No matter what he said, you would say he's 100% wrong. Because you know better. I don't know (and neither did Spock when he gave this thread a name) and I don't care if he's right or wrong.

So cut the bullshit and tell me what you think an antivaxxer is. I'm sure you and the dr. think the same thing.

[Bob78164]

How the hell can an employer REQUIRE someone to tell them their vaccination status? How can a restaurant owner refuse to serve anyone without a vaccination card?

An employer can require someone to tell them their vaccination status by firing them if they won't do so. A restaurant owner can refuse to serve someone without a vaccination card by exercising private property rights and telling the non-compliant customer to get lost. Federal law (including HIPAA) has no bearing on any of this. A few states have elected to interfere with private property rights or the doctrine of at-will employment (not to mention the employer's right to set the terms and conditions of employment) by forbidding these actions, but in the absence of such acts, it's all perfectly legal.

And yes, it becomes frustrating after a while to deal with determined and self-righteous ignorance, particularly for those who (like Dr. Perry) deal every day with the consequences of that ignorance. So I can understand his venting at those (like you) who are making the problem worse. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

Spare me your bullshit analysis and denigration of Mr Hirschman's study. No matter what he said, you would say he's 100% wrong. Because you know better. I don't know (and neither did Spock when he gave this thread a name) and I don't care if he's right or wrong.

If Mr. Hirschman publishes a bullshit study and you show a continuing ignorance of what HIPAA does and does not cover, I'll call you out on what I know and I'm sure Weyoun will do the same. Because I do know better about HIPAA requirements. And Weyoun knows better about COVID.

You claim you don't know whether this is right or wrong, but you sure seem eager to show that he's right. ("But they probably won't, because in the current climate, you let anyone who asks know if you're vaccinated. Most people brag about it.") We're not talking about most people bragging about being vaccinated. We're talking about a total stranger calling a family of someone who died and asking personal questions. According to Hirschman, he knows for a fact the vaccination status of everyone who died of these mysterious clots.

What do you expect people to do when you and Spock crow about a study like this? Do you expect us to say, well Flock, you opened my eyes so I'm just going to blindly accept what you and an embalmer from Alabama have to say. If you promote crap like this, whether you claim you believe it or not or have formed no opinion about it, I'll research it and call it crap. What I've never heard you say after one of these threads is that Weyoun or Bob or I might have a point and you'll have to research and think about it further. Instead, you get sarcastic or huffy and defensive.

By the way, people like this embalmer can get a lot of publicity in right wing circles by promoting crackpot theories. I'm sure this entire episode hasn't hurt his popularity in Alabama.

[Weyoun]

We’ve poked all sorts of holes in the guy’s story.

I have not seen a response to any of them.

- how does the guy know their vaccine status?
- statistically how does this huge number of patients square with trends seen nationally, especially in Pike County AL, with a vaccine rate of 50%?
- would not Covid explain this phenomenon better given that?
- how do stringy white clots make sense as a physiological process?

Etc.

He says also the he does not care if Hirschman is “right or wrong.” We have noticed…