Arbery Verdict
- tlynn78
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Arbery Verdict
Sounds like they got it right, from what (very) little I've heard. I am confused by the number of counts and the difference between 'malice murder' and felony murder. Not sure how they get multiple counts of felony murder with just the one victim. interesting stuff.
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- silverscreenselect
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Re: Arbery Verdict
The defendants were charged with four separate felonies in addition to the murder. Assault with a deadly weapon (gun); assault with a deadly weapon (motor vehicle); false imprisonment; and attempt to commit false imprisonment. The son (who pulled the trigger) was convicted of malice murder. The other two men were not. Also, Bryan, the friend who filmed the shooting, was acquitted on the assault with a gun charge and the felony murder in in connection with that charge since he wasn't armed. However, the evidence did show that he helped hem Arbery in with his vehicle so Arbery couldn't escape.tlynn78 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pmSounds like they got it right, from what (very) little I've heard. I am confused by the number of counts and the difference between 'malice murder' and felony murder. Not sure how they get multiple counts of felony murder with just the one victim. interesting stuff.
This isn't the end of the case either. McMichael Sr. was a former police investigator who called the district attorney at the time shortly after the murder. He asked her for advice on what he should do because he and his son had been "involved in a shooting." She allegedly advised him to wash his hands. The two McMichaels were allowed to leave the scene. She recused herself from the case shortly afterwards and has since been indicted for violation of her oath of office. Her case is scheduled for trial in February. She has since been defeated for re-election. The acting DA was also a friend of the McMichaels and claimed that he didn't feel prosecution was warranted. About two months later, someone leaked the damaging video to the press and the GBI began its own investigation. The prosecutors who argued the case in court this month were from the Cobb County DA's office in suburban Atlanta. The judge is from Savannah, after all five judges in Glynn County, where the shooting occurred, recused themselves.
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- tlynn78
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Re: Arbery Verdict
I get that, but what I found interesting was the multiple felony murder charges, in addition to the malice murder for the first one for whom the verdicts were read, with just the one victim. Just different from how things are charged here, and I always find the differences between jurisdictions fascinating.silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:52 pmThe defendants were charged with four separate felonies in addition to the murder. Assault with a deadly weapon (gun); assault with a deadly weapon (motor vehicle); false imprisonment; and attempt to commit false imprisonment. The son (who pulled the trigger) was convicted of malice murder. The other two men were not. Also, Bryan, the friend who filmed the shooting, was acquitted on the assault with a gun charge and the felony murder in in connection with that charge since he wasn't armed. However, the evidence did show that he helped hem Arbery in with his vehicle so Arbery couldn't escape.tlynn78 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pmSounds like they got it right, from what (very) little I've heard. I am confused by the number of counts and the difference between 'malice murder' and felony murder. Not sure how they get multiple counts of felony murder with just the one victim. interesting stuff.
This isn't the end of the case either. McMichael Sr. was a former police investigator who called the district attorney at the time shortly after the murder. He asked her for advice on what he should do because he and his son had been "involved in a shooting." She allegedly advised him to wash his hands. The two McMichaels were allowed to leave the scene. She recused herself from the case shortly afterwards and has since been indicted for violation of her oath of office. Her case is scheduled for trial in February. She has since been defeated for re-election. The acting DA was also a friend of the McMichaels and claimed that he didn't feel prosecution was warranted. About two months later, someone leaked the damaging video to the press and the GBI began its own investigation. The prosecutors who argued the case in court this month were from the Cobb County DA's office in suburban Atlanta. The judge is from Savannah, after all five judges in Glynn County, where the shooting occurred, recused themselves.
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- BackInTex
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Re: Arbery Verdict
Yep, the jury system has worked well this past week in the two major cases.
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~~ Thomas Jefferson
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Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
- tlynn78
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Re: Arbery Verdict
At least two!
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- silverscreenselect
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Re: Arbery Verdict
Each felony murder charge is predicated on a different underlying offense. The three most serious charges are independent of each other. It's possible that a jury could find one or more of the defendants not guilty (or have a guilty verdict overturned on appeal) on one or more of the underlying offenses, which would automatically make them not guilty of that particular felony murder charge. That's what happened with Bryan here, who said he didn't know that the McMichaels were armed and he wasn't armed himself.tlynn78 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:59 pmI get that, but what I found interesting was the multiple felony murder charges, in addition to the malice murder for the first one for whom the verdicts were read, with just the one victim. Just different from how things are charged here, and I always find the differences between jurisdictions fascinating.
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- Bob78164
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Re: Arbery Verdict
Here's the thing to remember about the Arbery verdict. The local prosecutor had that video long before the public did. His office watched the video long before that public saw it. And after watching it, they concluded, "Nothing to see here, no need to prosecute." The prosecution happened only because the video went public.
That, right there, is the reason why the cynicism of so many people of color about the criminal justice system is justified. Yes, the result appears to be plainly correct. But the trial very nearly never happened. --Bob
That, right there, is the reason why the cynicism of so many people of color about the criminal justice system is justified. Yes, the result appears to be plainly correct. But the trial very nearly never happened. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Beebs52
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Re: Arbery Verdict
But IT HAPPENED.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:34 pmHere's the thing to remember about the Arbery verdict. The local prosecutor had that video long before the public did. His office watched the video long before that public saw it. And after watching it, they concluded, "Nothing to see here, no need to prosecute." The prosecution happened only because the video went public.
That, right there, is the reason why the cynicism of so many people of color about the criminal justice system is justified. Yes, the result appears to be plainly correct. But the trial very nearly never happened. --Bob
Well, then
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Re: Arbery Verdict
Yes it did. How many others didn't happen, aren't happening, because the video never leaked? --BobBeebs52 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:25 pmBut IT HAPPENED.Bob78164 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:34 pmHere's the thing to remember about the Arbery verdict. The local prosecutor had that video long before the public did. His office watched the video long before that public saw it. And after watching it, they concluded, "Nothing to see here, no need to prosecute." The prosecution happened only because the video went public.
That, right there, is the reason why the cynicism of so many people of color about the criminal justice system is justified. Yes, the result appears to be plainly correct. But the trial very nearly never happened. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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- Bob78164
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Re: Arbery Verdict
I'm not willing to overlook the many, many times when things go preventably wrong.
This verdict doesn't justify any kind of a victory lap (except for the sense of justice it undoubtedly brings to Mr. Arbery's family). Our society will deserve the victory lap when this is the rule, not the exception. We're not there yet. I don't think we're particularly close. And we won't get there unless we, as a society, maintain the pressure. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Beebs52
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Re: Arbery Verdict
You "intend" to do all sorts of things. Are you gonna go all radical and anarchist on us? When do I get reparations for all the millenia of woman abuse? Including slavery and sexual assault. And what about and what about...
Well, then
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Re: Arbery Verdict
This opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
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- tlynn78
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Re: Arbery Verdict
Article lost me at "racist Trump." Krox, just curious, do you feel Biden displays racist behaviors?kroxquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pmThis opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
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- tlynn78
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Re: Arbery Verdict
Let Bobbo have his social justice fantasies.
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- Beebs52
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Re: Arbery Verdict
The mostly white jury found them guilty. Um. You don't think a trial was necessary? You think bad people are going to go away because you want them to?kroxquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pmThis opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
Well, then
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Re: Arbery Verdict
The point that the author is making that this case is exceptional when it shouldn't be. The way this trial went should be the way that they always go (that can't be said of the investigation). Of course a trial was necessary; that is how our legal system works which it did in this case. I am not sure how you reached that conclusion from this editorialBeebs52 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:54 pmThe mostly white jury found them guilty. Um. You don't think a trial was necessary? You think bad people are going to go away because you want them to?kroxquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pmThis opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
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- kroxquo
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Re: Arbery Verdict
The article called the 45th President "bigoted" not racist. There is a subtle but important difference. Dictionary.com defines bigoted as "utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." That describes the 45th President's words and deeds perfectly.tlynn78 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:41 pmArticle lost me at "racist Trump." Krox, just curious, do you feel Biden displays racist behaviors?kroxquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pmThis opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
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- tlynn78
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Re: Arbery Verdict
I stand corrected. You didn't answer my question, but that's okay. And you're utterly wrong about Trump, but that's okay, too. Actually, that description sounds a whole lot more like the left than anyone else. Stay woke!kroxquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:00 pmThe article called the 45th President "bigoted" not racist. There is a subtle but important difference. Dictionary.com defines bigoted as "utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." That describes the 45th President's words and deeds perfectly.tlynn78 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:41 pmArticle lost me at "racist Trump." Krox, just curious, do you feel Biden displays racist behaviors?kroxquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pmThis opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
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- kroxquo
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Re: Arbery Verdict
I'm not going to get caught up in a game of whataboutism.tlynn78 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:40 amI stand corrected. You didn't answer my question, but that's okay. And you're utterly wrong about Trump, but that's okay, too. Actually, that description sounds a whole lot more like the left than anyone else. Stay woke!kroxquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:00 pmThe article called the 45th President "bigoted" not racist. There is a subtle but important difference. Dictionary.com defines bigoted as "utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." That describes the 45th President's words and deeds perfectly.
Here is a list of times that the 45th President was intolerant of an opinion that differed from his own:
The 2016 election was rigged to deny him a popular victory
He had the largest inaugural crowd in history
A hurricane threatened Alabama
People should wear masks to prevent a pandemic
Vladimir Putin can be trusted to be honest with him
It's okay to pressure a the leader of a foreign country for political gain
He actually won the 2020 election
Name me one time that he was tolerant of an opinion that differed from his own.
Last edited by kroxquo on Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- silverscreenselect
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Re: Arbery Verdict
You mean like these fine, tolerant people
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- tlynn78
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Re: Arbery Verdict
"I'm not going to get caught up in a game of whataboutism."
Which means you know full well Biden has exhibited far more bigotry than Trump ever did, but he's not Trump, so you just don't care
Name me one time that the 45th President was tolerant of an opinion that differed from his own.
Oh, bless your heart. For starters, he ran as a Republican.
Which means you know full well Biden has exhibited far more bigotry than Trump ever did, but he's not Trump, so you just don't care
Name me one time that the 45th President was tolerant of an opinion that differed from his own.
Oh, bless your heart. For starters, he ran as a Republican.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
- tlynn78
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Re: Arbery Verdict
You are laughable.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
- tlynn78
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Re: Arbery Verdict
"Here is a list of times that the 45th President was intolerant of an opinion that differed from his own:tlynn78 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:07 am"I'm not going to get caught up in a game of whataboutism."
Which means you know full well Biden has exhibited far more bigotry than Trump ever did, but he's not Trump, so you just don't care
Name me one time that the 45th President was tolerant of an opinion that differed from his own.
Oh, bless your heart. For starters, he ran as a Republican.
The 2016 election was rigged to deny him a popular victory - that's not intolerance. And does the phrase "Russian collusion" mean anything? Hilz?
He had the largest inaugural crowd in history - again, not intolerance.
A hurricane threatened Alabama - again...
People should wear masks to prevent a pandemic - lol - psst, read the label on the box of masks.
Vladimir Putin can be trusted to be honest with him - so he's "tolerant" of Putin and not Xi Jinpin
It's okay to pressure a the leader of a foreign country for political gain - HAHAHAHAHA!! Biden, Ukraine?
He actually won the 2020 election" - again, not intolerance.
Krox, you satisfied my initial question by avoiding it. By the way, Biden's your president now, so you want to turn your attention to all his "accomplishments" and leave the orange bogeyman meme behind.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire