I'll believe its a crisis when peoples start acting

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

So Jemmie are the guys warning us about Global Warming hypocrites?

Does concern for limited resources justify lying about Global Warming to control the proles?

[Jeemie]

So Jemmie are the guys warning us about Global Warming hypocrites?

Does concern for limited resources justify lying about Global Warming to control the proles?

My mistake for thinking we were having a serious conversation.

Wait- I'll go get my tinfoil hat and then return.



OK- I'm back!

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Confusing this thread with a serious discussion seems a bit naive.

The correct term is Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie or AFDB

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html

[MarleysGh0st]

Confusing this thread with a serious discussion seems a bit naive.

Since it's your thread, thanks for clearing that up for us.

[frogman042]

Confusing this thread with a serious discussion seems a bit naive.

Since it's your thread, thanks for clearing that up for us.

Now this is all starting to make sense. I was wondering why when I clicked on your various links that was suppossed to support the anti-climate change position, I found them to be most convincing - that they had absolutely no real science on their side. This now explains why that is the case. I'm most impressed with your ability to put on this act for so long.

[SportsFan68]

. . .
And yet, not only did none of Ehrlich's predictions ever come true (other than the prediction that population would increase, which actually increased far more than he warned about), but world food supplies and surpluses increased even faster, despite the record increases in population.
. . .

Holy cow, I sounded smart in a class I'm taking today when I made the above point.

Then I made one of MrKelley's points, I'll see if I can find it.

[SportsFan68]

. . .

If the population continues to grow, will you concede that at some point in the future the Earth and its resources will be used up? . . .

I made this point, along with some mention of how our current economic sustainability depends on non-sustainable processes, such as transportation which depends close to 100% on fossil fuels, which as MrKelley points out someplace else, could be exhausted in the lifetimes of our children.

[Jeemie]

I made this point, along with some mention of how our current economic sustainability depends on non-sustainable processes, such as transportation which depends close to 100% on fossil fuels, which as MrKelley points out someplace else, could be exhausted in the lifetimes of our children.

Not our children's...ours.

Well...OK...not exhausted.

Fossil fuels will never be exhausted.

They'll just become impossible to extract with positive net energy.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

PARIS, Jan. 19 (UPI) -- Supplies of natural gas could last more than 250 years if Asian and European economies follow the U.S. unconventional reserves, the IEA said.

The abundance of shale gas and other forms of so-called unconventional gas discovered in the United States prompted a global rush to explore for the new resource.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resourc ... z1BgKWsTco

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resourc ... 295444312/

[Jeemie]

PARIS, Jan. 19 (UPI) -- Supplies of natural gas could last more than 250 years if Asian and European economies follow the U.S. unconventional reserves, the IEA said.

The abundance of shale gas and other forms of so-called unconventional gas discovered in the United States prompted a global rush to explore for the new resource.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resourc ... z1BgKWsTco

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resourc ... 295444312/

Once again, the key phrase... "at current consumption rates".

Consumption rates don't stay constant...and as mrk pointed out, energy consumption rates have historically grown at such a pace that doubling times are as short as a DECADE.

That means that in only ten years we will consume as much as we consumed in ALL THE YEARS PRIOR.

The power of the exponential function...ignored once again.

[Weyoun]

PARIS, Jan. 19 (UPI) -- Supplies of natural gas could last more than 250 years if Asian and European economies follow the U.S. unconventional reserves, the IEA said.

The abundance of shale gas and other forms of so-called unconventional gas discovered in the United States prompted a global rush to explore for the new resource.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resourc ... z1BgKWsTco

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resourc ... 295444312/

Once again, the key phrase... "at current consumption rates".

Consumption rates don't stay constant...and as mrk pointed out, energy consumption rates have historically grown at such a pace that doubling times are as short as a DECADE.

That means that in only ten years we will consume as much as we consumed in ALL THE YEARS PRIOR.

The power of the exponential function...ignored once again.

But isn't the controlling variable population growth? And population growth is levelling. Of course, it's not that clear cut, since China, Brazil, etc, need to catch up to our level of industrialization. But that could be countered by greater efficiency and use of alternative energy sources.

So I don't find the original article to be implausible.

The larger problem is the global warming has been sold as a Mayan world will end scenario, when it should be sold in terms of energy costs long term and national competitiveness.

[Jeemie]

But isn't the controlling variable population growth? And population growth is levelling. Of course, it's not that clear cut, since China, Brazil, etc, need to catch up to our level of industrialization. But that could be countered by greater efficiency and use of alternative energy sources.

The bolded is a bigger driver in increasing energy consumption than population growth.

And countries ramping up their level of industrialization rarely use energy efficiency or alt sources to do it....or at least, not to a large decgree. They go for all-out increases in consumption in energy. Look at China...they're incorporating alts, but not so much effciency...and they are set to soon surpass the US in terms of oil consumption.

So I don't find the original article to be implausible.

I do. While the doomers are ultimately too "doomish", so are the "business-as-usual" crowd too optimistic.

The larger problem is the global warming has been sold as a Mayan world will end scenario, when it should be sold in terms of energy costs long term and national competitiveness.

I can agree with this.

But end-of-the-world scenarios provide better sound bites.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Since this thread started with Speaker Pelosi, an update

But the GOP has succeeded in short order in one critically important venture: getting rid of the "compostable" cornstarch-based knives, forks and spoons that were a universally — and bipartisanly — hated feature of the House cafeteria operation.

The tableware, the color of mucus and as bendable as a pocket watch in a Salvador Dali painting (and thus unable to pierce any foodstuff firmer than the innards of Brie cheese), was the most visible manifestation of recently deposed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's Green the Capitol initiative.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 5344.story

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

The German government wants to encourage the construction of new coal and gas power plants with millions of euros from a fund for promoting clean energy and combating climate change.

The plan has come under stiff criticism, but the Ministry of Economics and Technology defended the idea. A spokeswoman said it was necessary as the government switches from nuclear to other renewable energy sources and added that the money would promote the most efficient plants possible.

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110713-36277.html

[Spock]

I made this point, along with some mention of how our current economic sustainability depends on non-sustainable processes, such as transportation which depends close to 100% on fossil fuels, which as MrKelley points out someplace else, could be exhausted in the lifetimes of our children.

Not our children's...ours.

Well...OK...not exhausted.

Fossil fuels will never be exhausted.

They'll just become impossible to extract with positive net energy.

Hmm-Positive Net Energy-a statistic that matters mainly in Peaker Alternate Universe World. BTW-What is the Energy Ratio of the Department of Energy?

[Bob78164]

I made this point, along with some mention of how our current economic sustainability depends on non-sustainable processes, such as transportation which depends close to 100% on fossil fuels, which as MrKelley points out someplace else, could be exhausted in the lifetimes of our children.

Not our children's...ours.

Well...OK...not exhausted.

Fossil fuels will never be exhausted.

They'll just become impossible to extract with positive net energy.

Hmm-Positive Net Energy-a statistic that matters mainly in Peaker Alternate Universe World. BTW-What is the Energy Ratio of the Department of Energy?

Extracting oil from under the ground doesn't help much if you have to burn more oil to get it out than you get from the process. --Bob

[Jeemie]

Hmm-Positive Net Energy-a statistic that matters mainly in Peaker Alternate Universe World.

If by Alternate Universe World you mean "the world where the laws of physics apply", then...why...yes!

[Spock]

Not our children's...ours.

Well...OK...not exhausted.

Fossil fuels will never be exhausted.

They'll just become impossible to extract with positive net energy.

Hmm-Positive Net Energy-a statistic that matters mainly in Peaker Alternate Universe World. BTW-What is the Energy Ratio of the Department of Energy?

Extracting oil from under the ground doesn't help much if you have to burn more oil to get it out than you get from the process. --Bob

Obviously! If a well (or other energy project) is that uneconomic companies simply won't do it (Dry Holes aside). Some government oil companies might because of external social factors-but that would be another topic.

But getting back to the "Energy Balance" concept. Should policy decisions be based on it? such as allowing a fossil fuel project? How about for alt energy projects? Who gets to figure it?

[Jeemie]

But getting back to the "Energy Balance" concept. Should policy decisions be based on it? such as allowing a fossil fuel project? How about for alt energy projects? Who gets to figure it?

Um...not sure what you mean by this question.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Ferndale MI starts acting like its a crisis

And in 2008, the City Council passed a resolution urging then-Governor Granholm, a green zealot committed to converting Michigan to wind-power, "to rescind or deny air permits for all coal fired power plants in the best interest of the health and welfare of Michigan citizens."

The city further "pledged to reduce our global warming emissions seven percent below our 1990 levels by 2012 in an effort to curb global warming."

This week's blackout would seem to be a pro-active way of meeting that goal.

But instead, Ferndale's mayor scrambled to get DTE to bring in diesel-fuel generators - carbon-spewing generators! - to get the power back on. Apparently the health of the elderly gasping at home - one man died from the heat in Metro Detroit - is more important than saving the planet.

Ferndale's green, hybrid-driving council members suddenly realized that their batteries don't run on magic. They are COAL-powered. So much for carbon independence - unless you want to push your plug-in to work.

From The Detroit News: http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/wate ... z1SrpLlDPg

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Before this thread disappears with everything else

BOSTON (CBS) – Governor Deval Patrick did walk to a morning event on Beacon Hill — a stone’s throw from the Statehouse — but was quick to sheepishly admit that he probably hadn’t set the best example earlier in the day.

“You got me!” grinned the Governor.

He’s talking about video shot by WBZ of Mr. Patrick leaving his Milton home this morning with his assigned state trooper at the wheel for the routine drive into work in his SUV.

One problem.

The Governor himself recently declared this “Car-Free Week,” urging people to ditch their autos in favor of public transportation, biking, walking, or at the very least carpooling — espousing the environmental and health benefits of that switch.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/09/19/g ... free-week/

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Celebrities launch global warming 'I AM' campaign
Mark Ruffalo, Serena Williams, Orlando Bloom, James Cameron, and others star in new initiative spearheaded by Global Green USA.

http://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-cultu ... m-campaign

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

I on the other hand was the annoying guy at the back of the class.

Today’s resignation of Chris Huhne, the UK Minister for Climate Change, offers the prospect of a belated return to sanity at the former Ministry of Agriculture in Whitehall. Huhne now faces prosecution for an alleged attempt to pervert the course of justice by asking his then wife to say that she was driving at the time when one of Britain’s thousands of speed cameras caught him going faster than the law allows.

Its the coverup

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

As sweet icing on the cake he baked.

Huhne, who made a fortune in the City, is a former director of a company that pioneered speed cameras and mobile CCTV systems used by police forces. He resigned from his post at Traffic Safety Systems in December 2003, not long after he was banned from driving.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/wwf-ca ... 3-07-02300

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