Need experienced parents help!!!

[a1mamacat]

Tonight, there was a phonecall from the principal. Seems that James decided that it would be cool, and get him lots of friends if he wrote vulgar grafitti on the bathroom walls about some of the girls in his school.

He will be spending the next few weeks before holidays, working with the janitor after school, as they had to rush and clean it, so couldn't make him do it.

Now, I need some help with his consequences here. So far, suspension of priveleges, discussions, threats, and withholding of funds has had no effect.

I am tempted to take him to visit the local constabulary, to have them explain what COULD have happened if it was anywhere other than the school.

I am so upset. When I was on the phone with him, I was crying and said I felt bad that I was such a bad mother that he didn't know right from wrong.

[PlacentiaSoccerMom]

You are not a bad mother, kids do stupid things when they are with other kids.

I think that a visit to the police might be a good idea. Perhaps you can pre-arrange the visit and ask somebody to scare him straight.

I am glad that the school is making him help the janitor for a while.

[PlacentiaSoccerMom]

Perhaps he also needs to write a sincere letter of apology to the girls that he wrote about.

[a1mamacat]

Well the principal is going to deal with what happens at school. I might suggest that to him.

Oh DASH, DASH, DASH!!!!!

(reference the previous thread regarding cat names)

[kayrharris]

We have a juvenile detention center here that might scare the hell out of him as well. Anything like that close by that he could visit?

What was his reaction to your bad mother remark? He knows you're not a bad mother as much as he knows that what he did was wrong. Maybe just realizing he disappointed and hurt you will wake him up a little bit. He may just be showing a bit of stubbornness right now, but I know he has a soft spot in his heart for his mom.

Could this possibly affect the decision of the expensive private school you all have been considering? Would unacceptable behavior of this type end all discussion of said school?

Maybe the teachers here will come up with better suggestions, but don't blame yourself. We parents can only do the best we know how, but we can't take responsibility for the mistakes our kids make. This is just a bump in the road....one of many I'm afraid. My son is 25 and the road is still rocky every now and then. But it's also straight and smooth a lot of the time as well. It will eventually even itself out.

[fantine33]

I am neither experienced nor a parent, but the jail visit might do some good.

When I worked for the Court, I used to hate it when I had to go to the jail because they're constantly yelling out filthy things. That ought to scare the crap out of him. Even having to deal with the in custodies in the holding cells in the courthouse was a treat (not).

My cousin is an HVAC guy and he's had to do work at the jail before. He says the women are even worse than the men.

From what you've said of Jamie in the past, I seem to recall that he was rather sensitive. If you think he might not be able to handle a jail stroll, Kay's suggestion of Juvenile Detention might be better. I never had to work juvie, but the deputies used to dread that detail because they're mostly all incorrigible little freaks.

Does he have any younger female relatives or maybe close friends that he could see how writing those things would hurt them?

[Appa23]

Now, I need some help with his consequences here. So far, suspension of priveleges, discussions, threats, and withholding of funds has had no effect.

I was curious what the above statement meant. Have you tried suspension of privileges (of which access to your money would be one) and "grounding" to his room previously, to no effect? I ask b/c I do not remember you discussing previous problems with his behavior.

[a1mamacat]

Does he have any younger female relatives or maybe close friends that he could see how writing those things would hurt them?

Yes and he loves them dearly, but my when I suggested to him that very idea stated above, he just seemed to shrug it off. I am sure there is much more going on that caused him to do this. I have a fear that he is being bullied again, and doing things to be considered "cool" by the bully gang.

[Ritterskoop]

Does he have any younger female relatives or maybe close friends that he could see how writing those things would hurt them?

I like this approach very much. One of the ways I appeal to people to be nice to other people is to get them to see how much we all share, how much we are all alike. Even in discussions about animals, we talk about how that animal can feel pain so that's something we share.

If there is someone nearish his age James likes, who could explain to him how it would make her feel very bad to have those things written about her (even if he wrote them about others), that might get the lesson across.

That's only about the lesson, not the punishment. Taking responsibility for our actions is an adult concept. Cleaning up our messes is where we begin to be adults. Once he understands the depth of his injury, he will see how important it is he help clean it up.

Please let us know how this plays out.




I am also not a parent. But I was a kid.

[a1mamacat]

Now, I need some help with his consequences here. So far, suspension of priveleges, discussions, threats, and withholding of funds has had no effect.

I was curious what the above statement meant. Have you tried suspension of privileges (of which access to your money would be one) and "grounding" to his room previously, to no effect?

Not this particular occurance, but just regular discipline issues. I don't seem to be able to find what "gets" to him in the consequence department. So, I just have to keep trying.

I ask b/c I do not remember you discussing previous problems with his behavior

Oh SNORT! Now I know you never really read my shit LOLOLOL. Thanks for the much needed giggle.

[mrkelley23]

Contrary to the advice of others, I am against the "Scared Straight" approach for smart, sensitive youngsters. In my case, it provided me an excuse to keep doing what I was doing, because I wasn't nearly as bad off as "those guys."

I disagree that all your actions are having no effect. They may be having no visibleeffect, but they are having an effect.

Have you had a face-to-face, heart-to-heart discussion with J about this? Told him how this tears at your soul, because not only is he the light of your life, but violence against girls, including written violence, is violence against all women, including yourself? And have you considered that that may be the real reason behind all this?

I don't want to make you feel worse than you already do, but a young man fighting with adolescence will sometimes lash out at everyone he's close to, including his parents. You get a double dose.

And as much as I think a heart-to-heart might help, I also think it's important not to over-emotionalize or over-emphasize the situation. Spraying offensive graffiti is a stupid, thoughtless act that requires punishment. It sounds like you and the school are doing your parts in this. The next time he has the temerity to ask to do something, you say no, and if he says why not, you say if he has to ask, then he hasn't learned his lesson yet.

Ride the storm, Saucy. It's not fun, it's not pleasant, but believe me, he's waiting and watching to see what you do. And what you do will have an impact on what he does, 25 or 30 years down the road, when he's got a teenager he's trying to figure out.

[peacock2121]

Saucy,

I raised a girl, so I did not have the experience you are having.

My ex spent time in jail for what he did to a woman. He was in therapy for what he did to a woman. The therapist asked him to write a letter from the point of view of woman - using his left hand (he is right handed) - it did not produce the result the therapist expected. He just could not get that he demeaned, damaged and used his power to dominate someone smaller and less powerful. It sounds James dosen't get it wither.

I think Mikey might be on the right track. If you can remove yourself from the whole thing - not have this be about you or about the kind of mother you are - but have it be about James and what thoughts go on in his head - about how he justified what he did - having him see the damage he did - not just to property, but to another human being. If he is being 'made wrong' by you, if he feels attacked by you, he won't have the room to look into his own heart.

If you aren't able to distance yourself from the whole thing - find someone who can - and have them have a heart to heart with James.

Also - regarding consequences - I tried everything with Pealette - grounding, chipping away at privileges, getting angry, getting hurt, ranting, threatening, giving up - the whole thing - here is what worked - I told her she would have to wear dresses to school - that all of her jeans and pants would be taken away the next time she 'broke a promise'.

It worked.

[Appa23]

I am wondering if there is any male adult with whom Jamie has a somewhat-close relationship. Maybe a teacher, coach, or relative?

As others have noted here, he is right at that age where teens (espeically boys) want to test their boundaries.

[moonie]

Saucy

I totally agree that you have to take yourself out of the equation- your mothering quality has nothing to do with this. James is succumbing to peer pressure, and unfortunately is allowing other guys to control him.

As a parent, I would make every effort to be calm and 'in control' mentally, especially in front of him. The police visit is a great idea, and when he's home, he needs to know that you, like the police, are the authority figure. He must answer to both of you.

Dont ever let him see you feeling weak or doubt yourself, please!

If through this event he sees the far-reaching ramifications to the females involved and how it hurt them, he should be able to understand the impact of it all, something Im sure he didn't think about when he acted out. Hopefully, this is one crossroad he will come to and take the correct path.

[geoffil]

I would check with the moms of his friends that he was with during this incident. It sounds like he had some "friends" that are bad influences. He should stay away from those boys. I think very, very long sessions with the janitor will help learn a lesson. At my daughters's middle school, kids who break the rules have to clean the lunchroom during lunch period and then they only get 10 minutes to eat and eat after everyone else. The whole grade sees the kids who have this punishment and whisper and giggle. The kids get embarrassed and after the second week of school everyone seems to follow the rules. There had not been any kid on lunch duty since then.

[minimetoo26]

Does he REALLY UNDERSTAND what he wrote? Rain Man had to go talk to the assistant principal after his math teacher took away his pencil sharpener, and when he was speaking with the guidance counselor about the incident, he used the term "revenge." So he had to go to the principal.

I told her he didn't really know what words meant sometimes, and she said that she got that pretty quickly after talking to him. And that she really enjoyed meeting him and thought he was a great kid. She wasn't worried about him at all.

So. He has to know he can't write on walls. Period. And helping the janitor can help get that through his head.

[SportsFan68]

When my younger brother was about 13, he and two friends set fire to the locker of a kid they thought was a total dweeb. They had to refinish the gym floor on Saturdays, and one parent had to be there the whole time they were working.

Then about 25 years later, my assistant's daughter set fire to a trash can in the girls' restroom at about the same age. She came within an eyelash of being expelled, but did all the requirements -- wrote a letter of apology and had to do some hours of community service, but I can't remember what it was. And she was banned from going with "Disney Dad" on spring break.

I agree with the folks who say take the "bad mother" piece out of it. It doesn't follow, and James is plenty smart enough to know it and plenty smart enough to take advantage of it. If you want to make it be your fault, who is he to argue? He could be suffering no consequences -- "Mom says it's all her fault, and I agree with that."

If he's being bullied, that's the school's fault, and you gotta hold them accountable for it -- the principal, the superintendent, the school board, whatever it takes.

Good luck -- stay with it. You'll see that peach of a kid again soon, hopefully sooner than you think.

[traininvain]

First off, I really doubt you're a bad mother. I know this because my parents weren't bad parents when my sister got arrested for shoplifting when she was 16 along with some of her friends. All their parents bailed them out right away, but my father, who was a cop, left her in jail overnight. That did scare her straight and then some, it took some of her friends a little bit longer to straighten up.

One thing I might try and do is to find a slightly older kid who is 'cool' and a good student and who's willing to talk to your son what/whom he maybe having problems with. I'd ask the high school guidance counselor to recommend someone.

Good luck