Worthy of Bored Debate

[christie1111]

christie1111 says:

I was not aware that the mother of the octoplets already had 6 children.

And was unmarried and living with her parents in a very small house.

As about 46 people have probably already told you (no time to read through all the comments right now) this has already been a debate on Nightline, & probably 6 other TV shows. I somehow am sure talk radio has covered it too.

The real question is not "how big is her house", or "but she isn't married", but why insurance is presumably paying & doctors are OKing invitro for someone who already has many children, presumably some with the current father.

The question brought up on Nightline, during the few minutes I was watching, is why they implanted 8 embryos into someone so young; that's a technique usually used on women who are much older, where the implantation of any embryo is far less likely to take.

As for the marital status, or house: Its often brought up that people who want to adopt are put through "are you suitable" ringers, but of course there is no such inquisition for people who just get pregnant, unless a complaint is made about how the are treating the child once its been born.

I just brought the subject up for debate here. Others have also debated it, but that never stopped us from weighing in on stuff.



And there are many point to debate in this situation, not only the ones you think are 'real'.

[Beebs52]

I am confronting my beliefs.

I am pro-choice - unwaveringly - pro-choice.

If she has the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy, she has the right to create a pregnancy. It is her choice.

I am examining why I am cringing and befuddled and close to appalled.

If she is not raising the children on public assistance, what business is it of mine? It is her choice.

I am not liking what is going on with me about this.

Why? Do you think she should have been prevented from doing this?

Okay, I'll throw in my opinion. Yes. I do. Although "how" or "by whom" I can only suggest. Obviously the state couldn't prevent her, unless of course it paid for the procedure. I think whatever passes as a medical professional around there should have declined to do the procedure. Or, if she had access to the drugs herself, and shot herself up, then the clinic should be held responsible for part of it. Her parents could have refused to help her.
If no one enabled her she wouldn't have been able to pop out eight more babies with such ease. What happened to "do no harm"? Are you responsible for child abuse by aiding and abetting this fiasco?

I'm not really answering your question or the ones I wrote, just venting a bit of the feeling of grotesque creepiness this story gives me.

[peacock2121]

I am confronting my beliefs.

I am pro-choice - unwaveringly - pro-choice.

If she has the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy, she has the right to create a pregnancy. It is her choice.

I am examining why I am cringing and befuddled and close to appalled.

If she is not raising the children on public assistance, what business is it of mine? It is her choice.

I am not liking what is going on with me about this.

Why? Do you think she should have been prevented from doing this?

I do not think she should have been prevented. I have negative judgments about her that she did. I have opinions about her choice. I do not find myself having opinions about other choices.

[ghostjmf]

dhristie1111 says:

And there are many point to debate in this situation, not only the ones you think are 'real'.

yeah, but lots of the other points are ones on which it probably isn't legal for fertility clinics to rule.

If a fertility clinic said "we won't impregnate you with your own fertilized eggs because you're unmarried", I bet there'd be a lawsuit. And if they said "we want to inspect your house &/or to assess your care of your other children", I'd bet there'd be a lawsuit too, although the depts of public health & of child welfare (called various things in various states) are allowed to do those inspections if there are already-born children on the premises that various people (school-related people, neighbors) have reported are being neglected.

So while we all can philosophize that someone who let themself be impregnated with 8 embryos when they already have 6 small children is nuts, I don't think we can expect that the clinic involved should have not given their services to her at all for that reason.

But the clinic could have refused to implant with 8 embryos at once because a young woman just might then have 8 babies, born in bad-health situations, as she did.

[mrkelley23]

As troubling as I find this story, it does appear to be the kind of case that good policy comes from (if not good grammar).

She already had the embryos, from the previous fertility treatment. It's apparently not illegal to implant all 8 at once, but I"m not real happy about the ethical situation. My sense is that others will feel the same way, and we may finally get some self-regulation (I hope it's self, anyway) of the fertility industry.

I also hope I'm wrong about who's doing the paying the young woman referred to.

[dimmzy]

Why? Do you think she should have been prevented from doing this?

It should have been against the policy of the fertility clinic to implant EIGHT when clearly she's "fertile".

What if she decides to do this NEXT year?

She could conceivably be the mother of 40 children. "40 by 40: Next on TLC"

See what those Duggars have wrought!

[Beebs52]

I have a question. DID insurance pay for this? The reason I ask is that I know someone who has gone through fertility treatments and various other procedures due to"female" problems, trying to determine if she can, indeed, have children. She's married and young and would be a great parent. Insurance considers it, here, an elective sort of procedure. As opposed to a medical problem like other issues.

I find it disheartening that nutballs like this are able to do whatever they wish with an attitude of entitlement or expectation of remuneration for birthing babies.

Which doesn't even address the questions of whether in vitro is smart or fertility drugs are smart or whatever.

It's just, I thought Californians were so "enlightened" about stuff.

You can't legislate crazy. She should be allowed to do whatever she wants to do. That's what happens when you have all that is permissible. And then we can watch the reality shows after!

Bonus!

[Bob Juch]

I have a question. DID insurance pay for this? The reason I ask is that I know someone who has gone through fertility treatments and various other procedures due to"female" problems, trying to determine if she can, indeed, have children. She's married and young and would be a great parent. Insurance considers it, here, an elective sort of procedure. As opposed to a medical problem like other issues.

I find it disheartening that nutballs like this are able to do whatever they wish with an attitude of entitlement or expectation of remuneration for birthing babies.

Which doesn't even address the questions of whether in vitro is smart or fertility drugs are smart or whatever.

It's just, I thought Californians were so "enlightened" about stuff.

You can't legislate crazy. She should be allowed to do whatever she wants to do. That's what happens when you have all that is permissible. And then we can watch the reality shows after!

Bonus!

Kaiser paid for the pre-natal care and the delivery. They did not cover anything before that.

[a1mamacat]

CNN reports that the mother is now preparing to get an agent and market her story.


How very surprising!!!!!

[Beebs52]

I have a question. DID insurance pay for this? The reason I ask is that I know someone who has gone through fertility treatments and various other procedures due to"female" problems, trying to determine if she can, indeed, have children. She's married and young and would be a great parent. Insurance considers it, here, an elective sort of procedure. As opposed to a medical problem like other issues.

I find it disheartening that nutballs like this are able to do whatever they wish with an attitude of entitlement or expectation of remuneration for birthing babies.

Which doesn't even address the questions of whether in vitro is smart or fertility drugs are smart or whatever.

It's just, I thought Californians were so "enlightened" about stuff.

You can't legislate crazy. She should be allowed to do whatever she wants to do. That's what happens when you have all that is permissible. And then we can watch the reality shows after!

Bonus!

Kaiser paid for the pre-natal care and the delivery. They did not cover anything before that.

Well, that appears to be normal, and what one would expect.

[Sisyphean Fan]

Why? Do you think she should have been prevented from doing this?

It should have been against the policy of the fertility clinic to implant EIGHT when clearly she's "fertile".

What if she decides to do this NEXT year?

She could conceivably be the mother of 40 children. "40 by 40: Next on TLC"

See what those Duggars have wrought!

I think these were the last eggs she had pre-fertilized, so that might it. Unless her insurance will pay for more donor sperm and egg harvesting.

I really don't mind the Duggars. Although they appear to be the biggest media whores around now, they didn't start out that way (I think they were going on 14 when they had their first TLC show).

I find them kind of creepy and I don't agree with their reasons for doing it or their ideas on religion. But at least they let them come as they will, without monkeying around with the natural process.

[secondchance]

Just read that she's offered Oprah and Diane Sawyer her first interview for the bargain price of $2 million, and that she's planning a career in TV as a child expert.


i am not joking.

[etaoin22]

2 points: health care jobs as she had are frequently found in those with personality disorders like Munchausen's, Munchausen's by proxy and so on.

More likely, though, she is being funded as a brood mare for the coming Islamic caliphate.

Incidentally, there is evidence Dr. Mengele was quite successful in his later practice in treating women likely to have "Aryan" children to have twins.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... razil.html