What just happened to the stock market?!

[silvercamaro]

I think the people who will be harmed the most (in the short run, anyway) will be those relative few who scheduled their retirements, largely comprised of 401K plans, for Sept. 30.

[earendel]

I haven't checked our investments in a while. I just don't want to know. The way that I look at it, we are buying low and it's going to rebound that's how I keep my sanity.

Same here. Yikes is all I am thinking right now. I am just glad I am 36 and not 56 right now.

I AM 56 and I'm not going to panic - yet.

[silverscreenselect]

Are there any Democrats you like besides Hillary?

Maybe you two should go off and start your own party,

On the issues, I generally agree with Pelosi and Reid. As leaders, however, they are abysmal failures, which has contributed to Congress' sub-Bush approval numbers.

They came into office with a clear mandate from the public to end the Iraq war. Instead, they let Mr. 28% and the Republicans out-maneuver them time after time.

They got the minimum wage raised, and that is their only real accomplishment in two years.

Leadership means leading. It means if you say legislation is critical, getting it passed. It's not the responsibility of the Republicans to give the Democrats 100 votes or 65 votes or one single vote. It was Reid and Pelosi's responsibility to either find a way to ram a vote home on a strict party line (which, as usual, they lacked the cojones to attempt) or reach out to the Republicans. Instead, they chose to bash Bush and McCain and turn their version of the bill into a testimonial for Barack Obama. Their mixture of arrogance and spinelessness is staggering.

You can be a fan of a football team and still criticize its coach or ask for his firing if he's lousy. The Democratic party, at a time when voters are ready to turn to them, has shown an abject failure of leadership.

[MarleysGh0st]

I think the people who will be harmed the most (in the short run, anyway) will be those relative few who scheduled their retirements, largely comprised of 401K plans, for Sept. 30.

The security of one's retirement doesn't depend on the level of the stock market on the day one retires; this affects everyone, including those who've already retired and those who are hoping to do so at some future date.



And speaking for my index-fund portfolio: OUCH!

[silverscreenselect]

It does sound like Pelosi went overboard in giving her speech a partisan edge. (Talk about exactly the wrong time to do something like that.) However, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Republicans who were going to vote for the bill but then changed their minds after her speech. You should vote on a bill based on its merits (or lack thereof), not because you didn't like something someone said. Especially now that the stakes are so high.

There is something to be said about negotiating in good faith. If two parties feel they have to come to an agreement and one of them indicates that they absolutely can't concede any more and that this is going to be the best agreement the other side will get, the other side may go along, even if they feel it is a bad or ill-advised deal, as long as they feel the other side is dealing with them in good faith. I don't know what Pelosi/Reid/Frank et al said during their negotiations, but it's a safe bet that the more the Democrats tried to make political hay out of the issue, the less faith the Republicans had in their good intentions about the whole affair.

If Bush had given a speech on the eve of the Iraq war vote saying that the vote was necessary because the Clinton administration had failed to deal with Saddam and the terrorists during the last eight years, would it have passed nearly as easily (or even at all)? Not even Bush was that stupid. Nancy Pelois was.

It's one thing to put aside your misgivings about the bill and vote for it, hoping for the best, if you feel that the other side is doing the same thing. It's another thing to do it if you feel they are orchestrating the entire proceedings to win an election.

[silvercamaro]

The security of one's retirement doesn't depend on the level of the stock market on the day one retires; this affects everyone, including those who've already retired and those who are hoping to do so at some future date.

And speaking for my index-fund portfolio: OUCH!

Okay. I was thinking of the kind of program with which I am most familiar, the stock portion of TIAA-CREF, which is prevalent in higher education. The the value of the CREF fund (the stock portion) is converted into an annuity on the selected day.

I did not convert my CREF when I retired, thinking that it would serve as some protection against inflation over the next few years, so it continues to be tied to the stock market. Today it's not worth as much as it was yesterday, so maybe I'll just let it sit a decade or so longer than I intended, hoping that it still may recover and eventually grow beyond pre-nonbailout levels. At any rate, that's my plan as long as I can get by without it. Fortunately, that's not my sole source of retirement income.

I still believe the stock market will recover. Eventually.

[MarleysGh0st]

There's plenty of bad faith to go around, SSS.

[Rexer25]

If McCain becomes president, Hillary will very likely become Majority Leader and the level of competence and maturity in both those positions will increase tremendously.

SSS, I will understand if you ignore my question, but what have you heard that about the Senate majority leader position? Is Reid so unpopular with the Senate Dems that they won't vote for him? Is Hillary counting votes?

[Bob Juch]

It does sound like Pelosi went overboard in giving her speech a partisan edge. (Talk about exactly the wrong time to do something like that.) However, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Republicans who were going to vote for the bill but then changed their minds after her speech. You should vote on a bill based on its merits (or lack thereof), not because you didn't like something someone said. Especially now that the stakes are so high.

Barney Frank just said the same thing.

The news said calls, emails and faxes were running 30 to 1 against the bill. Mine were one each of those against.

[Bob Juch]

You can be a fan of a football team and still criticize its coach or ask for his firing if he's lousy. The Democratic party, at a time when voters are ready to turn to them, has shown an abject failure of leadership.

Yeah, that's UCLA this year. I'm sure as hell not rooting for USC though!

[silverscreenselect]

If McCain becomes president, Hillary will very likely become Majority Leader and the level of competence and maturity in both those positions will increase tremendously.

SSS, I will understand if you ignore my question, but what have you heard that about the Senate majority leader position? Is Reid so unpopular with the Senate Dems that they won't vote for him? Is Hillary counting votes?

All that I have heard is anecdotal. However, there's going to be plenty of blame if this election goes south and Reid and Pelosi haven't enamored themselves with a lot of Democrats before this. There's also a feeling that someone with a stronger backbone will be needed to deal with another Republican administration.

Last Thursday, Pelosi and Reid said they were on the verge of an agreement. They were wrong then. The Republicans couldn't well publicly contradict them without being labelled obstructionists. Today, by bringing it up for a vote, they essentially said they had the votes. I honestly don't know if they ever did have the votes or they brought it to a vote in hopes of forcing enough Republicans to vote for it.

Although Bush/Paulson proposed the bailout, the Democrats quickly took ownership of the issue Although Pelosi's title is Speaker of the House, she is essentially (in theory) the leader of the Democrats in the House. She could have gotten this bill passed without one single Republican vote (Clinton got the 1993 budget passed without a single Republican vote). All she needed was to come up with sufficient carrots or sticks to get 10 Democrats out of the 95 who opposed the bill to change their votes. She couldn't or wouldn't do it. Spin it any way you want, it's a failure of leadership.

[silvercamaro]

It does sound like Pelosi went overboard in giving her speech a partisan edge. (Talk about exactly the wrong time to do something like that.) However, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Republicans who were going to vote for the bill but then changed their minds after her speech. You should vote on a bill based on its merits (or lack thereof), not because you didn't like something someone said. Especially now that the stakes are so high.

Barney Frank just said the same thing.

I agree in theory, but once reluctantly persuaded Congressmen felt their collective blood pressure soaring, all bets were off.

In the meantime, 40 percent of the Democrats voted against the bill. Who are they, and why couldn't they be persuaded by Pelosi to go along? If unified, the Democrats could have had enough votes to put the bill through with virtually no Republican support.

[silverscreenselect]

It does sound like Pelosi went overboard in giving her speech a partisan edge. (Talk about exactly the wrong time to do something like that.) However, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Republicans who were going to vote for the bill but then changed their minds after her speech. You should vote on a bill based on its merits (or lack thereof), not because you didn't like something someone said. Especially now that the stakes are so high.

Barney Frank just said the same thing.

I agree in theory, but once reluctantly persuaded Congressmen felt their collective blood pressure soaring, all bets were off.

In the meantime, 40 percent of the Democrats voted against the bill. Who are they, and why couldn't they be persuaded by Pelosi to go along? If unified, the Democrats could have had enough votes to put the bill through with virtually no Republican support.

Jesse Jackson, Jr., Obama's campaign chairman, voted against the bill. This bill supposedly reflected all the "Obama principles" but Obama couldn't or wouldn't even persuade his campaign chairman to vote for the bill, but they want to blame the Republicans.

[Ritterskoop]

Today it's not worth as much as it was yesterday, so maybe I'll just let it sit a decade or so longer than I intended, hoping that it still may recover and eventually grow beyond pre-nonbailout levels. At any rate, that's my plan as long as I can get by without it. Fortunately, that's not my sole source of retirement income.

I still believe the stock market will recover. Eventually.

It always does if you wait long enough.

You can come live with me if that doesn't work out.

Or Kay. She has more room, and I think the dogs would enjoy her pool.

[ulysses5019]

You can be a fan of a football team and still criticize its coach or ask for his firing if he's lousy. The Democratic party, at a time when voters are ready to turn to them, has shown an abject failure of leadership.

Yeah, that's UCLA this year. I'm sure as hell not rooting for USC though!

How about the Sooners?

[5LD]

This crisis is potentially just the tip of the iceberg. The largest number of high risk ARMs to date reset this month.

[silvercamaro]

You can come live with me if that doesn't work out.

Or Kay. She has more room, and I think the dogs would enjoy her pool.

Thanks, Skoop. Of course, I still have my secret plan B: Annie gets a job as a cattle security officer, and Lizbit becomes a newspaper delivery dog. They should take care of me for a change.

[Evil Squirrel]

You can come live with me if that doesn't work out.

Or Kay. She has more room, and I think the dogs would enjoy her pool.

Thanks, Skoop. Of course, I still have my secret plan B: Annie gets a job as a cattle security officer, and Lizbit becomes a newspaper delivery dog. They should take care of me for a change.

I like that idea. Tired dogs don't bark as much....

My tree's always available should you need a place to stay....

[ne1410s]

"The markets will fluctuate." J P Morgan

[ulysses5019]

You can come live with me if that doesn't work out.

Or Kay. She has more room, and I think the dogs would enjoy her pool.

Thanks, Skoop. Of course, I still have my secret plan B: Annie gets a job as a cattle security officer, and Lizbit becomes a newspaper delivery dog. They should take care of me for a change.

I like that idea. Tired dogs don't bark as much....

My tree's always available should you need a place to stay....

Methinks there are already too many nuts in that tree.