Good article, I thought

[SportsFan68]

I couldn't get past the NT Times wall to get the original article, so I copied this from Baptist News Global.

A high-profile conservative evangelical influencer announced Aug. 11 he’ll vote for Kamala Harris in an effort to save conservativism.

New York Times columnist David French and his wife, Nancy French, already have become persona non grata in some evangelical circles for calling out the cruelty and immorality of Donald Trump. Yet they have remained steadfast in their own political and theological conservatism.

In an Aug. 13 appearance on MSNBC, David French explained more of the rationale behind his op-ed published the day before. Asked if he thinks it would “send a message” if Republicans lose the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives this year due to Trump’s influence, he responded affirmatively.

“It will send a message,” he said. “Now who knows if it’s received. There’s a difference between sending a message and absorbing a message. You would absolutely send a message that the path of MAGA is a path of electoral ruin then. If you’ve been a lifelong Republican, I’ve got news for you: This party is not the party you grew up with and it’s surprising to me how few people I encounter just in daily life who have fully absorbed that.”

In his op-ed for the Times, French recites his conservative bona fides, including his belief that life begins at conception and his support for the Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe v. Wade.

“But I’m going to vote for Kamala Harris in 2024 and — ironically enough — I’m doing it in part to try to save conservatism,” he wrote.

“Since the day Donald Trump came down that escalator in 2015, the MAGA movement has been engaged in a long-running, slow-rolling ideological and characterological transformation of the Republican Party. At each step, it has pushed Republicans further and further away from Reaganite conservatism. It has divorced Republican voters from any major consideration of character in leadership and all the while it has labeled people who resisted the change as ‘traitors.’”

As a fundamental illustration of this change in values, French cites the ideal that lying is wrong.

“I have never seen a human being lie with the intensity and sheer volume of Donald Trump,” he noted. “Even worse, Trump’s lies are contagious. The legal results speak for themselves. A cascade of successful defamation lawsuits demonstrate the severity and pervasiveness of Republican dishonesty.”

He also contends it should not be controversial to declare that political violence and threats of violence “have no place in the American democratic process. … The level of threat against public officials has escalated in the MAGA era, MAGA Republicans often wield threats as a weapon against Republican dissenters, and every American should remember January 6, when a mob of insurrectionists ransacked the Capitol.”

Further, Trump’s cruelty “is embedding itself deeply within one of Trump’s most loyal constituencies, conservative evangelicals,” he added. “It is difficult to overstate the viciousness and intolerance of MAGA Christians against their political foes. There are many churches and Christian leaders who are now more culturally Trumpian than culturally Christian. Trump is changing the church.”

“It is difficult to overstate the viciousness and intolerance of MAGA Christians against their political foes.”

French acknowledged he has friends and family who do not understand or agree with his position. But he sees an urgency to the present moment.

“We should make the argument — firmly but respectfully — that this is no ordinary race and that the old political categories no longer apply.”

To those who question whether he’s still a conservative, French replied: “I can’t vote for Trump precisely because I am conservative. I loathe sex abuse, pornography and adultery. Trump has brought those vices into the mainstream of the Republican Party. I want to cultivate a culture that values human life from conception through natural death. Yet America became more brutal and violent during Trump’s term. I want to defend liberal democracy from authoritarian aggression, yet Trump would abandon our allies and risk our most precious alliances.”

If Harris wins the presidency — by default silencing Trump — “conservative Americans will have a chance to build something decent from the ruins of a party that was once a force for genuine good in American life,” he concluded.

[flockofseagulls104]

I couldn't get past the NT Times wall to get the original article, so I copied this from Baptist News Global.

A high-profile conservative evangelical influencer announced Aug. 11 he’ll vote for Kamala Harris in an effort to save conservativism.

New York Times columnist David French and his wife, Nancy French, already have become persona non grata in some evangelical circles for calling out the cruelty and immorality of Donald Trump. Yet they have remained steadfast in their own political and theological conservatism.

In an Aug. 13 appearance on MSNBC, David French explained more of the rationale behind his op-ed published the day before. Asked if he thinks it would “send a message” if Republicans lose the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives this year due to Trump’s influence, he responded affirmatively.

“It will send a message,” he said. “Now who knows if it’s received. There’s a difference between sending a message and absorbing a message. You would absolutely send a message that the path of MAGA is a path of electoral ruin then. If you’ve been a lifelong Republican, I’ve got news for you: This party is not the party you grew up with and it’s surprising to me how few people I encounter just in daily life who have fully absorbed that.”

In his op-ed for the Times, French recites his conservative bona fides, including his belief that life begins at conception and his support for the Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe v. Wade.

“But I’m going to vote for Kamala Harris in 2024 and — ironically enough — I’m doing it in part to try to save conservatism,” he wrote.

“Since the day Donald Trump came down that escalator in 2015, the MAGA movement has been engaged in a long-running, slow-rolling ideological and characterological transformation of the Republican Party. At each step, it has pushed Republicans further and further away from Reaganite conservatism. It has divorced Republican voters from any major consideration of character in leadership and all the while it has labeled people who resisted the change as ‘traitors.’”

As a fundamental illustration of this change in values, French cites the ideal that lying is wrong.

“I have never seen a human being lie with the intensity and sheer volume of Donald Trump,” he noted. “Even worse, Trump’s lies are contagious. The legal results speak for themselves. A cascade of successful defamation lawsuits demonstrate the severity and pervasiveness of Republican dishonesty.”

He also contends it should not be controversial to declare that political violence and threats of violence “have no place in the American democratic process. … The level of threat against public officials has escalated in the MAGA era, MAGA Republicans often wield threats as a weapon against Republican dissenters, and every American should remember January 6, when a mob of insurrectionists ransacked the Capitol.”

Further, Trump’s cruelty “is embedding itself deeply within one of Trump’s most loyal constituencies, conservative evangelicals,” he added. “It is difficult to overstate the viciousness and intolerance of MAGA Christians against their political foes. There are many churches and Christian leaders who are now more culturally Trumpian than culturally Christian. Trump is changing the church.”

“It is difficult to overstate the viciousness and intolerance of MAGA Christians against their political foes.”

French acknowledged he has friends and family who do not understand or agree with his position. But he sees an urgency to the present moment.

“We should make the argument — firmly but respectfully — that this is no ordinary race and that the old political categories no longer apply.”

To those who question whether he’s still a conservative, French replied: “I can’t vote for Trump precisely because I am conservative. I loathe sex abuse, pornography and adultery. Trump has brought those vices into the mainstream of the Republican Party. I want to cultivate a culture that values human life from conception through natural death. Yet America became more brutal and violent during Trump’s term. I want to defend liberal democracy from authoritarian aggression, yet Trump would abandon our allies and risk our most precious alliances.”

If Harris wins the presidency — by default silencing Trump — “conservative Americans will have a chance to build something decent from the ruins of a party that was once a force for genuine good in American life,” he concluded.

He is right about one thing. It's not the party you grew up with. We are pushing out the Bush-ite RINOs. Bush was not Reagan in the least bit. Working for the NYT, this guy has no idea what conservatism really is. He and Liz Cheney can go form their own party. See how much support they get.

[tlynn78]

I couldn't get past the NT Times wall to get the original article, so I copied this from Baptist News Global.

A high-profile conservative evangelical influencer announced Aug. 11 he’ll vote for Kamala Harris in an effort to save conservativism.

New York Times columnist David French and his wife, Nancy French, already have become persona non grata in some evangelical circles for calling out the cruelty and immorality of Donald Trump. Yet they have remained steadfast in their own political and theological conservatism.

In an Aug. 13 appearance on MSNBC, David French explained more of the rationale behind his op-ed published the day before. Asked if he thinks it would “send a message” if Republicans lose the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives this year due to Trump’s influence, he responded affirmatively.

“It will send a message,” he said. “Now who knows if it’s received. There’s a difference between sending a message and absorbing a message. You would absolutely send a message that the path of MAGA is a path of electoral ruin then. If you’ve been a lifelong Republican, I’ve got news for you: This party is not the party you grew up with and it’s surprising to me how few people I encounter just in daily life who have fully absorbed that.”

In his op-ed for the Times, French recites his conservative bona fides, including his belief that life begins at conception and his support for the Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe v. Wade.

“But I’m going to vote for Kamala Harris in 2024 and — ironically enough — I’m doing it in part to try to save conservatism,” he wrote.

“Since the day Donald Trump came down that escalator in 2015, the MAGA movement has been engaged in a long-running, slow-rolling ideological and characterological transformation of the Republican Party. At each step, it has pushed Republicans further and further away from Reaganite conservatism. It has divorced Republican voters from any major consideration of character in leadership and all the while it has labeled people who resisted the change as ‘traitors.’”

As a fundamental illustration of this change in values, French cites the ideal that lying is wrong.

“I have never seen a human being lie with the intensity and sheer volume of Donald Trump,” he noted. “Even worse, Trump’s lies are contagious. The legal results speak for themselves. A cascade of successful defamation lawsuits demonstrate the severity and pervasiveness of Republican dishonesty.”

He also contends it should not be controversial to declare that political violence and threats of violence “have no place in the American democratic process. … The level of threat against public officials has escalated in the MAGA era, MAGA Republicans often wield threats as a weapon against Republican dissenters, and every American should remember January 6, when a mob of insurrectionists ransacked the Capitol.”

Further, Trump’s cruelty “is embedding itself deeply within one of Trump’s most loyal constituencies, conservative evangelicals,” he added. “It is difficult to overstate the viciousness and intolerance of MAGA Christians against their political foes. There are many churches and Christian leaders who are now more culturally Trumpian than culturally Christian. Trump is changing the church.”

“It is difficult to overstate the viciousness and intolerance of MAGA Christians against their political foes.”

French acknowledged he has friends and family who do not understand or agree with his position. But he sees an urgency to the present moment.

“We should make the argument — firmly but respectfully — that this is no ordinary race and that the old political categories no longer apply.”

To those who question whether he’s still a conservative, French replied: “I can’t vote for Trump precisely because I am conservative. I loathe sex abuse, pornography and adultery. Trump has brought those vices into the mainstream of the Republican Party. I want to cultivate a culture that values human life from conception through natural death. Yet America became more brutal and violent during Trump’s term. I want to defend liberal democracy from authoritarian aggression, yet Trump would abandon our allies and risk our most precious alliances.”

If Harris wins the presidency — by default silencing Trump — “conservative Americans will have a chance to build something decent from the ruins of a party that was once a force for genuine good in American life,” he concluded.

He is right about one thing. It's not the party you grew up with. We are pushing out the Bush-ite RINOs. Bush was not Reagan in the least bit. Working for the NYT, this guy has no idea what conservatism really is. He and Liz Cheney can go form their own party. See how much support they get.

He's a religious Libertarian (the "Libertarian" is his label, not mine). Hmm. And contemplated a run for prez in 2016...

[flockofseagulls104]

The level of threat against public officials has escalated in the MAGA era, MAGA Republicans often wield threats as a weapon against Republican dissenters, and every American should remember January 6, when a mob of insurrectionists ransacked the Capitol.

That is another piece of disinformation disseminated by the media conglomerate. There are loonies on the right that might do something like that, but the loonies on the left far outnumber those. Just look at what happened in Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, etc.

[BackInTex]

The level of threat against public officials has escalated in the MAGA era, MAGA Republicans often wield threats as a weapon against Republican dissenters, and every American should remember January 6, when a mob of insurrectionists ransacked the Capitol.

That is another piece of disinformation disseminated by the media conglomerate. There are loonies on the right that might do something like that, but the loonies on the left far outnumber those. Just look at what happened in Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, etc.

I forget, who got shot in Alexandria, Virginia in June 2017, and in Butler, PA recently?

Oh, and which convention had to build a wall to protect itself from its own supporters?

Flock is not entirely right about "disinformation disseminated by the media conglomerate". The left has folks willing to close their eyes to the actual violence (not threats) coming from their side. Violence against the right, and against themselves. But they keep yelling "It's the MAGA folks!!!". Liars and fools.

[SportsFan68]

How Trump's campaign didn't end right here will forever be beyond me.

[Beebs52]

How Trump's campaign didn't end right here will forever be beyond me.

While he tried to splain it away, it was pretty urk. If that is your SOLE criterion for ending a campaign, 2015 btw, you just lost a bit of my respect, compared to the gross incompetence and hypocrisy of dems vis a vis, oh, bunches of dead bodies in Israel et al. I mean be fucking serious.

[BackInTex]

How Trump's campaign didn't end right here will forever be beyond me.

Because he wasn’t mocking the man’s disability. That’s just what you are told by your media.

Hell, Joe asked a paraplegic to stand up. And a dead person to as well.

[Beebs52]

, "Joe asked a paraplegic to stand up. And a dead person to as well."

Let's hear it for non compos mentis.
As I have said in the past, wish candidates were more ideal. But if you're gonna trade bullshit about rudeness versus idiocy best have your facts current and in a row.

[tlynn78]

How Trump's campaign didn't end right here will forever be beyond me.

Because he wasn’t mocking the man’s disability. That’s just what you are told by your media.

Hell, Joe asked a paraplegic to stand up. And a dead person to as well.

It's a bit ridiculous how the Left keeps trying to recycle this. Did he mock the guy? Absolutely. The exact same way he has mocked others caught in lies and subsequently exposed. In other words, treated him just like able-bodied people. Which should be the goal for the treatment of the differently abled. I happen to think, oh, say, unfettered illegal migration is a bigger issue. Like the illegals forming the Venezuelan gang who've taken over the apartment complex in Aurora.

[wbtravis007]

How Trump's campaign didn't end right here will forever be beyond me.

Because he wasn’t mocking the man’s disability. That’s just what you are told by your media.

Hell, Joe asked a paraplegic to stand up. And a dead person to as well.

It's a bit ridiculous how the Left keeps trying to recycle this. Did he mock the guy? Absolutely. The exact same way he has mocked others caught in lies and subsequently exposed. In other words, treated him just like able-bodied people. Which should be the goal for the treatment of the differently abled. I happen to think, oh, say, unfettered illegal migration is a bigger issue. Like the illegals forming the Venezuelan gang who've taken over the apartment complex in Aurora.

I totally agree with Sprots’ take. Of course, there are countless other examples where Trump himself has revealed his character in plain view — including the perfect calls with Zelensky and Raffensperger and the bragging about grabbing pussies — but this one should have been enough.

His superpower is his ability to make people consider that his character doesn’t matter much. Teflon Don.

[Weyoun]

How Trump's campaign didn't end right here will forever be beyond me.

Because he wasn’t mocking the man’s disability. That’s just what you are told by your media.

Hell, Joe asked a paraplegic to stand up. And a dead person to as well.

What do you call those hand gestures and that facial expression? God you will believe anything Trump tells you

[Weyoun]

How Trump's campaign didn't end right here will forever be beyond me.

Because he wasn’t mocking the man’s disability. That’s just what you are told by your media.

Hell, Joe asked a paraplegic to stand up. And a dead person to as well.

It's a bit ridiculous how the Left keeps trying to recycle this. Did he mock the guy? Absolutely. The exact same way he has mocked others caught in lies and subsequently exposed. In other words, treated him just like able-bodied people. Which should be the goal for the treatment of the differently abled. I happen to think, oh, say, unfettered illegal migration is a bigger issue. Like the illegals forming the Venezuelan gang who've taken over the apartment complex in Aurora.

If he’s making fun someone because of their lies, he would point the lies out. He was actually mocking the guy’s disability though. What the hell are you guys sniffing?

I don’t know what’s worse. That you definitely found that type of behavior by him funny, or you somehow segregated your mind to think that he wasn’t making fun of the disability that you were chuckling about.

[BackInTex]

I don’t know what’s worse. That you definitely found that type of behavior by him funny, or you somehow segregated your mind to think that he wasn’t making fun of the disability that you were chuckling about.

Or perhaps the man (and his supporters) use his disabilty as a shield from critisism.

[tlynn78]

I don’t know what’s worse. That you definitely found that type of behavior by him funny, or you somehow segregated your mind to think that he wasn’t making fun of the disability that you were chuckling about.

Or perhaps the man (and his supporters) use his disabilty as a shield from critisism.

Got it in one.

[wbtravis007]

I don’t know what’s worse. That you definitely found that type of behavior by him funny, or you somehow segregated your mind to think that he wasn’t making fun of the disability that you were chuckling about.

Or perhaps the man (and his supporters) use his disabilty as a shield from critisism.

Got it in one.

We get that cruelty resonates with some people. Or, at the very least, they’re not bothered by it.

[Weyoun]

I don’t know what’s worse. That you definitely found that type of behavior by him funny, or you somehow segregated your mind to think that he wasn’t making fun of the disability that you were chuckling about.

Or perhaps the man (and his supporters) use his disabilty as a shield from critisism.

Got it in one.

If it was really about the guy saying something that wasn’t factual, how come no one remembers that about what happened, or what Trump somehow proved?*

*beyond him being cruel and an asshole, I mean

[Weyoun]

Or perhaps the man (and his supporters) use his disabilty as a shield from critisism.

Got it in one.

We get that cruelty resonates with some people. Or, at the very least, they’re not bothered by it.

The reason all this worries me is if that Trump DID gas illegal immigrants, these guys wouldn’t blink twice. NOTHING the guy does raises alarms with them.

[Beebs52]

"The reason all this worries me is if that Trump DID gas illegal immigrants, these guys wouldn’t blink twice. NOTHING the guy does raises alarms with them."

Excuse me, what?

[tlynn78]

"The reason all this worries me is if that Trump DID gas illegal immigrants, these guys wouldn’t blink twice. NOTHING the guy does raises alarms with them."

Excuse me, what?

Typical lunacy. They build ugly things in their imagination, then instead of owning it, they transfer it. Sick, really.

[Beebs52]

Projection

[tlynn78]

Projection

Precisely.

[flockofseagulls104]

Look, lefties. I have been an average, law-abiding US citizen my entire life. I grew up in the 1960's and I was a card-carrying anti-war, moratorium, civil rights liberal and went to several gatherings and protests to prove it. I've been there.

Then I grew up, and in the 1980's I actually started to evaluate my beliefs and what I was actually supporting. It was Reagan who actually gave me the push I needed to abandon the democrat party. I voted for Carter in 1980. I voted for Reagan after that. And the democrat party has never once even tempted me to vote for them since then. I did not become a Nazi, white supremecist, raging right-wing fanatic. I do not and will never support a candidate for anything who fits the delusional characteristics you've been fed by the media you pay attention to and the raging, lying candidates and officeholders you support. THEY are the extremists. THEY are lying to you. And somehow, you know it yet you still vote for them and keep them in power.

They say they're for racial and social equality, but they do nothing but divide people up by whatever identity group they can think of, and give them grievances and incite hatred and distrust of one group in particular: their political opposition. Meanwhile, have they done anything concrete to help these groups they've created? Has any one of these constructed groups proclaimed "The democrat party has solved most of our problems. We are satisfied, so our organized groups will be disbanded." Or anything like that? No. Not in all these years. These grievances just grow and morph. They are just too valuable to throw away. So they keep creating new ones. Not one problem fixed. Why? Because, they say, all their problems are caused by the other political party.

I support trump because he is for the American people, not the Washington DC Government. His policies lifted EVERYONE. We had the best economy we've had in a long long time. We had peace, not war, and we had hope for peace in the Middle East with the Abraham Accords, which were done away with immediately and completely under biden. To make it even more unlikely, biden immediately began to refund Iran, and gave the Taliban enough of our military equipment to make them a formidable force, if we ever need to go back there. And so many other things that have gone steeply downhill since the biden/harris puppeteers took over.

Take a good, objective look as to where we were then, and where we are now. Is your TDS worth WWIII and an economic depression?

[tlynn78]

Look, lefties. I have been an average, law-abiding US citizen my entire life. I grew up in the 1960's and I was a card-carrying anti-war, moratorium, civil rights liberal and went to several gatherings and protests to prove it. I've been there.

Then I grew up, and in the 1980's I actually started to evaluate my beliefs and what I was actually supporting. It was Reagan who actually gave me the push I needed to abandon the democrat party. I voted for Carter in 1980. I voted for Reagan after that. And the democrat party has never once even tempted me to vote for them since then. I did not become a Nazi, white supremecist, raging right-wing fanatic. I do not and will never support a candidate for anything who fits the delusional characteristics you've been fed by the media you pay attention to and the raging, lying candidates and officeholders you support. THEY are the extremists. THEY are lying to you. And somehow, you know it yet you still vote for them and keep them in power.

They say they're for racial and social equality, but they do nothing but divide people up by whatever identity group they can think of, and give them grievances and incite hatred and distrust of one group in particular: their political opposition. Meanwhile, have they done anything concrete to help these groups they've created? Has any one of these constructed groups proclaimed "The democrat party has solved most of our problems. We are satisfied, so our organized groups will be disbanded." Or anything like that? No. Not in all these years. These grievances just grow and morph. They are just too valuable to throw away. So they keep creating new ones. Not one problem fixed. Why? Because, they say, all their problems are caused by the other political party.

I support trump because he is for the American people, not the Washington DC Government. His policies lifted EVERYONE. We had the best economy we've had in a long long time. We had peace, not war, and we had hope for peace in the Middle East with the Abraham Accords, which were done away with immediately and completely under biden. To make it even more unlikely, biden immediately began to refund Iran, and gave the Taliban enough of our military equipment to make them a formidable force, if we ever need to go back there. And so many other things that have gone steeply downhill since the biden/harris puppeteers took over.

Take a good, objective look as to where we were then, and where we are now. Is your TDS worth WWIII and an economic depression?

Perfectly stated. And 100% accurate.

[wbtravis007]

Look, lefties. I have been an average, law-abiding US citizen my entire life. I grew up in the 1960's and I was a card-carrying anti-war, moratorium, civil rights liberal and went to several gatherings and protests to prove it. I've been there.

Then I grew up, and in the 1980's I actually started to evaluate my beliefs and what I was actually supporting. It was Reagan who actually gave me the push I needed to abandon the democrat party. I voted for Carter in 1980. I voted for Reagan after that. And the democrat party has never once even tempted me to vote for them since then. I did not become a Nazi, white supremecist, raging right-wing fanatic. I do not and will never support a candidate for anything who fits the delusional characteristics you've been fed by the media you pay attention to and the raging, lying candidates and officeholders you support. THEY are the extremists. THEY are lying to you. And somehow, you know it yet you still vote for them and keep them in power.

They say they're for racial and social equality, but they do nothing but divide people up by whatever identity group they can think of, and give them grievances and incite hatred and distrust of one group in particular: their political opposition. Meanwhile, have they done anything concrete to help these groups they've created? Has any one of these constructed groups proclaimed "The democrat party has solved most of our problems. We are satisfied, so our organized groups will be disbanded." Or anything like that? No. Not in all these years. These grievances just grow and morph. They are just too valuable to throw away. So they keep creating new ones. Not one problem fixed. Why? Because, they say, all their problems are caused by the other political party.

I support trump because he is for the American people, not the Washington DC Government. His policies lifted EVERYONE. We had the best economy we've had in a long long time. We had peace, not war, and we had hope for peace in the Middle East with the Abraham Accords, which were done away with immediately and completely under biden. To make it even more unlikely, biden immediately began to refund Iran, and gave the Taliban enough of our military equipment to make them a formidable force, if we ever need to go back there. And so many other things that have gone steeply downhill since the biden/harris puppeteers took over.

Take a good, objective look as to where we were then, and where we are now. Is your TDS worth WWIII and an economic depression?

Perfectly stated. And 100% accurate.

And 100% broken record.

You remind me of a dog who is incapable of passing a fire hydrant without peeing on it. Do you have to blah blah blah about the same points over and over again in every single thread? You seem compelled to make every single one about you.

I guess you’ve got the Trump mindset that it doesn’t matter what you say; as long as you say it over and over you’ll convince people you’re right.

It ain’t working.