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I Want to Go Home
Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:41 am
by Spock
I think I have landed in an alternate universe where history started on 10/8/2023.
I come from a time prior to that date and in my world the vast majority of Palestinians have hated Israel (rightly or wrongly) for decades. And on October 7, 2023, the Palestinians acted on that hatred in the most brutal manner possible.
Faced with a raft of bad choices, Israel chose (rightly or wrongly) to invade Gaza in response to that brutal massacre. Everything Israel has done since 10/7 (rightly or wrongly) has been in response to that brutal massacre and that always needs to be kept in mind.
But, apparently, in this 10/8/2023 world , that I find myself in-the Palestinians have long held moderate views on Israel, until for no reason at all-Israel invaded Gaza and thus made a whole bunch of peace-loving Palestinians hate Israel.
I see evidence of this alternate universe in posts here and in countless interviews on the subject etc etc.
It is just a weird place that I find myself in and I want to go home.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:50 am
by tlynn78
Spock wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 10:41 am
I think I have landed in an alternate universe where history started on 10/8/2023.
I come from a time prior to that date and in my world the vast majority of Palestinians have hated Israel (rightly or wrongly) for decades. And on October 7, 2023, the Palestinians acted on that hatred in the most brutal manner possible.
Faced with a raft of bad choices, Israel chose (rightly or wrongly) to invade Gaza in response to that brutal massacre. Everything Israel has done since 10/7 (rightly or wrongly) has been in response to that brutal massacre and that always needs to be kept in mind.
But, apparently, in this 10/8/2023 world , that I find myself in-the Palestinians have long held moderate views on Israel, until for no reason at all-Israel invaded Gaza and thus made a whole bunch of peace-loving Palestinians hate Israel.
I see evidence of this alternate universe in posts here and in countless interviews on the subject etc etc.
It is just a weird place that I find myself in and I want to go home.
Nothing about it is the least bit funny, but the part where both sides chant F*#k Joe Biden is kind of poetic.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Sun May 05, 2024 9:15 pm
by Spock
I found an article by another person who was here prior to October 8, 2023. There seem to be a few of us here. She is a Jewish student at Bates College.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... es-college
Of most interest to those here for whom history started in October 8, 2023, I think will be her story of what happened at...
<<<"Kfar Aza is a kibbutz 2 kilometers from the border with Gaza—a left-leaning kibbutz whose members, ironically, had built beautiful bonds with people from Gaza over the years."<<<<<
But as she quotes Golda Meir ""“You cannot negotiate peace with someone who has come to kill you.”
And on October 7, 2023, people came to kill the peaceful people of Kfar Aza.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Sun May 05, 2024 11:09 pm
by silverscreenselect
Spock wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 10:41 am
Faced with a raft of bad choices, Israel chose (rightly or wrongly) to invade Gaza in response to that brutal massacre. Everything Israel has done since 10/7 (rightly or wrongly) has been in response to that brutal massacre and that always needs to be kept in mind.
While Israel's actions may have been in response to the massacre, that doesn't give them a blank check to do anything they want in response. History didn't begin on October 8, but neither did a new international law on war crimes.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 9:31 am
by flockofseagulls104
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 11:09 pm
Spock wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 10:41 am
Faced with a raft of bad choices, Israel chose (rightly or wrongly) to invade Gaza in response to that brutal massacre. Everything Israel has done since 10/7 (rightly or wrongly) has been in response to that brutal massacre and that always needs to be kept in mind.
While Israel's actions may have been in response to the massacre, that doesn't give them a blank check to do anything they want in response. History didn't begin on October 8, but neither did a new international law on war crimes.
So, we have international laws on war crimes?
Exactly what consequences have Hamas and Gaza (and actually Iran) been subjected to by the executors of the 'international laws on war crimes' for overwhelmingly violating their supposed laws? Maybe we need to wait for a trial? War Crimes Council v Hamas? Or maybe they should be fined?
Unfortunately, it is devolving into War Crimes Council v Israel. Just like it always has been in the U.N. Lawfare on a global scale.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 10:16 am
by jarnon
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 9:31 am
Exactly what consequences have Hamas and Gaza (and actually Iran) been subjected to by the executors of the 'international laws on war crimes' for overwhelmingly violating their supposed laws?
I assume you're being ironic, because you know Hamas is an internationally recognized terrorist organization, supporting Hamas (such as donating to a charity that is a Hamas front) is illegal in most countries, and Hamas leaders are frequent targets of drones. As for Iran, ask the generals who visited their embassy in Damascus last month.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 10:27 am
by flockofseagulls104
jarnon wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:16 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 9:31 am
Exactly what consequences have Hamas and Gaza (and actually Iran) been subjected to by the executors of the 'international laws on war crimes' for overwhelmingly violating their supposed laws?
I assume you're being ironic, because you know Hamas is an internationally recognized terrorist organization, supporting Hamas (such as donating to a charity that is a Hamas front) is illegal in most countries, and Hamas leaders are frequent targets of drones. As for Iran, ask the generals who visited their embassy in Damascus last month.
Good point, jarnon. And how is that working? Hint: take a look at our college campuses.
Is it so hard for you to understand that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran simply do not play by the rules of international law and are using it against the civilized world?
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 11:20 am
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:27 am
jarnon wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:16 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 9:31 am
Exactly what consequences have Hamas and Gaza (and actually Iran) been subjected to by the executors of the 'international laws on war crimes' for overwhelmingly violating their supposed laws?
I assume you're being ironic, because you know Hamas is an internationally recognized terrorist organization, supporting Hamas (such as donating to a charity that is a Hamas front) is illegal in most countries, and Hamas leaders are frequent targets of drones. As for Iran, ask the generals who visited their embassy in Damascus last month.
Good point, jarnon. And how is that working? Hint: take a look at our college campuses.
Is it so hard for you to understand that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran simply do not play by the rules of international law and are using it against the civilized world?
Thanks for pointing that out to me Flock. I was unaware that dozens, if not hundreds, of Hamas operatives had escaped Gaza and managed to go undercover as students at Columbia, USC, and other colleges.
And in case it escaped your attention, in nearly every war since the Geneva Convention was adopted, someone has violated the rules. That doesn't excuse similar atrocities by the other side, especially against non-combatants.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 11:23 am
by tlynn78
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:20 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:27 am
jarnon wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:16 am
I assume you're being ironic, because you know Hamas is an internationally recognized terrorist organization, supporting Hamas (such as donating to a charity that is a Hamas front) is illegal in most countries, and Hamas leaders are frequent targets of drones. As for Iran, ask the generals who visited their embassy in Damascus last month.
Good point, jarnon. And how is that working? Hint: take a look at our college campuses.
Is it so hard for you to understand that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran simply do not play by the rules of international law and are using it against the civilized world?
Thanks for pointing that out to me Flock. I was unaware that dozens, if not hundreds, of Hamas operatives had escaped Gaza and managed to go undercover as students at Columbia, USC, and other colleges.
You really are astonishingly naive.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 12:35 pm
by flockofseagulls104
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:20 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:27 am
Good point, jarnon. And how is that working? Hint: take a look at our college campuses.
Is it so hard for you to understand that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran simply do not play by the rules of international law and are using it against the civilized world?
Thanks for pointing that out to me Flock. I was unaware that dozens, if not hundreds, of Hamas operatives had escaped Gaza and managed to go undercover as students at Columbia, USC, and other colleges.
You really are astonishingly naive.
Naive is not the word.
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 2:44 pm
by Weyoun
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:20 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 10:27 am
Good point, jarnon. And how is that working? Hint: take a look at our college campuses.
Is it so hard for you to understand that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran simply do not play by the rules of international law and are using it against the civilized world?
Thanks for pointing that out to me Flock. I was unaware that dozens, if not hundreds, of Hamas operatives had escaped Gaza and managed to go undercover as students at Columbia, USC, and other colleges.
You really are astonishingly naive.
These are garden variety anticapitalist American wackos who have been doing this stuff for years. Are you saying they would be working at McDonalds, but for Hamas finding them out and giving them money to camp out at universities? Wouldn't Hamas do something a little more effective with that cash (or just abscond with it)?
Re: I Want to Go Home
Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 3:19 pm
by Beebs52
Weyoun wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 2:44 pm
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:20 am
Thanks for pointing that out to me Flock. I was unaware that dozens, if not hundreds, of Hamas operatives had escaped Gaza and managed to go undercover as students at Columbia, USC, and other colleges.
You really are astonishingly naive.
These are garden variety anticapitalist American wackos who have been doing this stuff for years. Are you saying they would be working at McDonalds, but for Hamas finding them out and giving them money to camp out at universities? Wouldn't Hamas do something a little more effective with that cash (or just abscond with it)?
Drill down on SJP and accompanying groups. Fellows, et al. Been around for decades. Also Soros is funding stuff thru open society whatever it is.
SJP has a long cobweb of associations.