Trump/Willis trial

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flockofseagulls104
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#26 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:02 pm

If Willis was male, just the fact that she was in a relationship with a subordinate would be the major issue. Have you ever been subjected to sexual harassment training at your job?

From the Fulton County Personnel Manual:
Working relationships can sometimes evolve into personal relationships. When employees are
engaged in a personal relationship, a conflict of interest may arise in certain instances. In order
to avoid conflicts of interest Fulton County has implemented the following policy.
For purposes of this policy personal relationships includes:
dating; engagement to be married;
cohabitation within the same household and living in a romantic partnership (excludes
platonic roommates sharing living expenses);
having a romantic or sexual relationship.
Disclosure
An employee may not supervise or hire a person with whom he or she is having a personal
relationship. An employee may not work in a position where he or she has influence over the
terms and conditions of the employment of a person with whom he or she has a personal
relationship.
Employees who work in the same department are required to report the personal relationship to
their supervisor.
Failure to comply with this policy can lead to discipline, including termination.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#27 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:09 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:02 pm
If Willis was male, just the fact that she was in a relationship with a subordinate would be the major issue. Have you ever been subjected to sexual harassment training at your job?
Was there some reason you needed special training about sexual harassment?
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#28 Post by jarnon » Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:19 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:02 pm
If Willis was male, just the fact that she was in a relationship with a subordinate would be the major issue. Have you ever been subjected to sexual harassment training at your job?
I had the same training, and it definitely applies to female bosses as well. The hearing now is only about dismissing the RICO case. Regardless of the outcome, Willis should and will face other consequences.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#29 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:13 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:09 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:02 pm
If Willis was male, just the fact that she was in a relationship with a subordinate would be the major issue. Have you ever been subjected to sexual harassment training at your job?
Was there some reason you needed special training about sexual harassment?
You've been outta the workplace for a bit...
Well, then

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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#30 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:48 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:28 pm
The defense attorneys were well-prepared but the issue they couldn't get around was whether they had to demonstrate an actual conflict of interest to disqualify Willis or just the "appearance of impropriety." The judge seemed very skeptical of their claims that an appearance of impropriety was enough.

The assistant DA for the state started out very shaky, trying to go down a group of power point slides and repeating himself a lot. But in the second half of his argument, he did much better, pointing out some factual problems with the evidence the defense introduced and the lack of corroboration. He pointed out that Willis was living with her father and that a boyfriend named Deuce came by a number of times and left a lot of his property in the garage. (He was a disc jockey.) That was at a time when Willis and Wade were supposedly already in their relationship.

The judge said he will issue his decision within two weeks.
McDougals's closing arguments.

A bit more relevant than trollboy's partisan BS.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#31 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:00 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:48 am
A bit more relevant than trollboy's partisan BS.
Not really, the "conflicts of interest" he describes have no bearing on the decision to pursue a prosecution against the Trump defendants. Assuming Willis did receive money from Wade, that would in no way affect the defense rights to a fair trial. Cases in which DA's have been disqualified have involved conduct like their receiving contingency fees in the event of a conviction, having previously represented the defendant in a related criminal case, having a personal relationship with the victim, or bringing charges against a defendant to pressure that defendant in a civil case the DA is also involved in. None of those are present here.

If Fani Willis wanted to hire Nathan Wade as part of some kickback scheme, why did she ask two other attorneys, including former Governor Roy Barnes, first? If she was trying to pad Wade's billable hours, why did they only indict half the potential defendants recommended by the grand jury? And why has she been pressing for a speedy trial when Wade could obviously bill more the longer this prosecution goes?

The defense's argument is that essentially there is a conflict of interest between Willis's actions and various ethical requirements of the Bar or Fulton County. But that's not the conflict of interest set out in the state statutes. Adopting that argument could mean that any time a district attorney takes home office supplies for their personal use, it could disqualify them from every prosecution in their jurisdiction. The governing case in this regard said there was a "quantum leap" between conduct possibly justifying the reversal of a conviction and that needed to disqualify the district attorney. And the defense never showed that, which was their responsibility.

Flock, once again you demonstrate that it's best to leave lawyering to the lawyers while we lawyers leave unfounded conspiracy theories to you.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#32 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:20 pm

...It's best to leave lawyering to the lawyers...
That is probably the most humorous sentence you have ever written on this bored. 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean is a good start.

McDougal is a lawyer. I think he has a bit more knowledge on this matter than you do. Surprising that he didn't come to you for advice before he opened his mouth. Or is it only here on this bored where you know everything about everything?
Mcafee is a lawyer. Let's hope he is one of the very few that aren't corrupt in Fulton Co.

Just spare us your partisan, leftist narrative on everything and stop obsessively trolling everything I post.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#33 Post by wbtravis007 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:53 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:20 pm
...It's best to leave lawyering to the lawyers...
That is probably the most humorous sentence you have ever written on this bored. 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean is a good start.

McDougal is a lawyer. I think he has a bit more knowledge on this matter than you do. Surprising that he didn't come to you for advice before he opened his mouth. Or is it only here on this bored where you know everything about everything?
Mcafee is a lawyer. Let's hope he is one of the very few that aren't corrupt in Fulton Co.

Just spare us your partisan, leftist narrative on everything and stop obsessively trolling everything I post.
I’m sure I’m not the only one to wonder if you’ve ever considered whether you’re a “trollboy” here?

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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#34 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:39 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:20 pm
McDougal is a lawyer. I think he has a bit more knowledge on this matter than you do.
Here's a news flash. In every case of this magnitude, there are lawyers on both sides. And one of them is always wrong. In this case, it's McDougall. And since you know nothing whatsoever about the case law he and the other attorneys were citing, you have no idea whatsoever whether he was correct or not.

But I'll give you credit for one thing. He knows more that the last expert you embraced, the Alabama enbalmer.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#35 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 6:09 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:39 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 3:20 pm
McDougal is a lawyer. I think he has a bit more knowledge on this matter than you do.
Here's a news flash. In every case of this magnitude, there are lawyers on both sides. And one of them is always wrong. In this case, it's McDougall. And since you know nothing whatsoever about the case law he and the other attorneys were citing, you have no idea whatsoever whether he was correct or not.

But I'll give you credit for one thing. He knows more that the last expert you embraced, the Alabama enbalmer.
If you go back and actually read that thread, I never did any such thing. All I wanted to know was doc's definition of an anti-vaccer. Which he never gave. But it don't matter. Once some garbage gets in your head, facts don't matter - you never let it go. Like Hannity. You remain pathetic.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#36 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 6:54 pm

One thing I missed while listening to parts of the closing argument yesterday. The judge opened the session by acknowledging that he had received the cell phone records and an affidavit from the winery owner that Fani Willis paid him in cash after he had closed evidence in the hearing. He said he thought he had enough evidence to decide the case without that additional evidence, but that if it was needed, he would hold a subsequent evidentiary hearing to determine its admissibility. Then at the end of the arguments, he didn't mention any subsequent hearing. Since both of those had a bearing on the credibility of Willis and Wade, it would indicate the judge had moved past that. So I'm thinking that he's on the need to show any actual conflict as to how whatever Wade and Willis were doing had any affect on the case against the defendants. And the answer is no.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#37 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:36 pm

Sss, how is quantum leap defined legally?
Well, then

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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#38 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:59 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:36 pm
Sss, how is quantum leap defined legally?
Don't bother. You won't get an answer that will mean anything. Let lawyers be lawyers. They lie for whoever pays them.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#39 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:59 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:36 pm
Sss, how is quantum leap defined legally?
It's where you go back in the past and try to make things right that went wrong originally.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#40 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:02 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:59 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:36 pm
Sss, how is quantum leap defined legally?
It's where you go back in the past and try to make things right that went wrong originally.
? Sounds iffy.
Well, then

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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#41 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:27 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:36 pm
Sss, how is quantum leap defined legally?
The case this comes from, Williams v. State, is the governing case on the issue of prosecutorial disqualification in Georgia. It was a murder case in which the defendant was convicted twice and both convictions were overturned by the appellate courts. A third trial ended in a mistrial after an 11-1 vote for conviction. The defense at this point appealed and claimed that another trial would be barred because of Double Jeopardy and in a separate motion, that the district attorney should be barred because of prosecutorial misconduct as a result of various errors that resulted in reversal of the first two convictions and some improper statements to the press. The trial court denied both motions.

The Georgia Supreme Court addressed the double jeopardy issue first, saying "Under both state and federal criminal law, it is a quantum leap from a conclusion that the reversal of a criminal conviction is necessary, to a holding that, as a result of the error or errors upon which the reversal is predicated, the Double Jeopardy Clause erects a constitutional barrier to further prosecution of the defendant. In this regard, it is a well-established tenet underlying the Double Jeopardy Clause that to bar retrial of a criminal defendant, on the sole ground that trial error necessitates reversal of the conviction, is far too high a price for society to pay for the vindication of the rights of criminal defendants under our scheme of government, and was never intended by the Double Jeopardy Clause."

To try to disqualify the district attorney, the defense pointed to comments he made to the media after the mistrial in the third trial. He said: "So far as I see it, the score is 35-to-1 for conviction, and I'm confident that if we bring it back and get a jury that is willing and able to decide, then we'll get the right result. Two juries have voted unanimously for conviction. Another has voted 11-to-1 for conviction. In my opinion, therefore, there is substantial reason to believe Mr. Williams is guilty of the offense charged."

The Georgia Supreme Court said that the errors the prosecution made in the first two trials were not intentional and then went on to say that the comments to the press about the "right result" were improper. Then they went on to say: "The defendant argues that the impropriety chargeable to the prosecutor as a result of his statements, when combined with other alleged incidence of prosecutorial misconduct in this case, establishes an inability on the part of the prosecutor and his staff to perform their prosecutorial duties, thereby requiring the grant of the appellant's disqualification motion.... The defendant's disqualification motion is similar to his double jeopardy plea, in that here, as there, it is a quantum leap from any conclusion that extrajudicial statements made by the prosecutor were improper, to the holding that disqualification of the prosecutor is required as a result thereof. The prosecutor's comment concerning the 'right result' can be said to have constituted an impermissible expression by the prosecutor of his opinion concerning the merits of the case. A conflict of interest has been held to arise where the prosecutor previously has represented the defendant with respect to the offense charged, or has consulted with the defendant in a professional capacity with regard thereto; such conflict also has been held to arise where the prosecutor has acquired a personal interest or stake in the defendant's conviction. In determining whether an improper statement of the prosecutor as to the defendant's guilt requires his disqualification, the courts have taken into consideration whether such remarks were part of a calculated plan evincing a design to prejudice the defendant in the minds of the jurors, or whether such remarks were inadvertent, albeit improper, utterances. Here, it is quite clear that any improper remarks made by the prosecutor were not of such egregious nature as to require his disqualification."

The implication of the comment about "quantum leap" (this case was decided in 1988, before the original TV series aired) is that a much higher level of prosecutorial misconduct must be shown to disqualify the prosecuting attorney than to reverse a conviction. (Otherwise, you'd have motions to disqualify every time a case got reversed on appeal.)
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#42 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:41 pm

disqualification, the courts have taken into consideration whether "such remarks were part of a calculated plan evincing a design to prejudice the defendant in the minds of the jurors, or whether such remarks were inadvertent, albeit improper, utterances. Here, it is quite clear that any improper remarks made by the prosecutor were not of such egregious nature as to require his disqualification."
I'm thinking nah doesn't apply.
Well, then

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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#43 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:48 pm

Yes, lawyers will lie for whoever pays them. And partisan leftist lawyers have no idea what truth is. The concept of truth is of no consequence to them.

This is just the first salvo. Fani Willis is a corrupt, low-level DA who was directed by this administration to prosecute Trump. The legislature is finally waking up and so is the US House. This lawfare prosecution will not stand. And there will be consequences.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#44 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:50 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:41 pm
disqualification, the courts have taken into consideration whether "such remarks were part of a calculated plan evincing a design to prejudice the defendant in the minds of the jurors, or whether such remarks were inadvertent, albeit improper, utterances. Here, it is quite clear that any improper remarks made by the prosecutor were not of such egregious nature as to require his disqualification."
I'm thinking nah doesn't apply.
The reasoning is that the level of misconduct required to disqualify a district attorney goes well beyond what is required to reverse a conviction. The Georgia Supreme Court noted that the statement to the press violated the Georgia rules for professional conduct at the time, but that they weren't of such "egregious nature to require disqualification. That's the "quantum leap." You've got to do much more than just show errors or professional misconduct of some sort by the prosecution. Here, arguably, Willis and Wade violated some rules, but what they did wouldn't justify disqualification, which "is far too high a price for society to pay for the vindication of the rights of criminal defendants under our scheme of government."
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#45 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:52 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:48 pm
so is the US House.
The US House is far too busy hunting for more indicted witnesses and federal fugitives to testify against Joe Biden.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#46 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:54 pm

So, pre conviction has a smaller burden of proof than post, right?
Would they really wanna go thru this again?
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#47 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:55 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:48 pm
The concept of truth is of no consequence to them.
The concept of truth seems to be beyond you as well as you reject all facts and evidence that don't comply with your preconceived notions.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#48 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:07 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:54 pm
So, pre conviction has a smaller burden of proof than post, right?
Would they really wanna go thru this again?
No, Williams was a "pre-conviction" case since the motion to disqualify was filed before what would be the deciding trial in his case.

FYI, the defendant in this case was Jim Williams, the Savannah antiques dealer who was the subject of the book and movie Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil (played in the movie by Kevin Spacey). His fourth trial was moved from Savannah to Augusta, where he was acquitted after only an hour of deliberation. He died less than a year after his acquittal. His case is the first and so far only Georgia case to result in four separate trials.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#49 Post by jarnon » Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:26 pm

Interesting that “quantum leap” has a unique meaning in Georgia criminal law. In physics, it refers to the transition of an electron from one energy level to another. It’s called a leap because it happens suddenly; the electron is never observed passing between the two orbits. The distance between the orbits is exceedingly tiny, less than an ångström (a ten-billionth of a meter).

Why are the Savannah DA’s comments improper? Prosecutors often say that, in their opinion, the accused person is guilty, and defense lawyers say the opposite.
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Re: Trump/Willis trial

#50 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:27 pm

jarnon wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:26 pm
Why are the Savannah DA’s comments improper? Prosecutors often say that, in their opinion, the accused person is guilty, and defense lawyers say the opposite.
An extrajudicial statement with respect to the prosecutor's or defense counsel's opinion as to the guilt or innocence of the accused, the evidence, or the merits of the case is expressly prohibited. DR 7-107 (B) (6). This disciplinary rule refers to trial publicity and was designed to prevent attorneys from trying cases in the media. The rules for what you can say in the courtroom to a jury are a bit different. In arguments, the district attorney can say that the facts in the case lead to a conclusion that the defendant is guilty, but they can't say they think the defendant is guilty, because that's an opinion and not valid evidence in the case. If you listen to the closing arguments in a case, you'll usually hear the district attorney make that distinction. (That's one reason why televising the Trump trial will be very educational for those whose knowledge of trial procedure is watching lawyer shows on television.)
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