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The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:19 am
by Bob78164
Here's the immigration bill that's a result of months of bipartisan negotiations in the Senate.
It's grossly irresponsible for MAGA Mike Johnson to have announced it's dead on arrival even before seeing it. But I thought I'd start this thread so that people can comment on the actual contents of the bill. --Bob
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:48 am
by flockofseagulls104
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:19 am
Here's the immigration bill that's a result of months of bipartisan negotiations in the Senate.
It's grossly irresponsible for MAGA Mike Johnson to have announced it's dead on arrival even before seeing it. But I thought I'd start this thread so that people can comment on the actual contents of the bill. --Bob
It is ironic that you would use the term grossly irresponsible now, after years of Nancy Pelosi. I fully support Speaker Johnson's DOA pronouncement. He doesn't even go into the fact that this bill gives more to securing the borders of Ukraine and Israel than it does to our own, and how it is just another 'emergency' bill to be rammed through without any examination. 18 million entries a year? I am at zero. Let's negotiate from there.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:55 am
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:48 am
I fully support
Speaker JohnsonDonald Trump's DOA pronouncement.
Fixed it for 'ya.
What you and the others who sincerely believe Johnson's nonsense (as opposed to Trump and his fellow opportunists) is that politics in a republican form of government is a matter of negotiation and compromise. It's been that way in this country since the Constitutional Convention. When you have a divided government, nobody gets everything they want. A lot of progressive Democrats are unhappy with this bill. But they and the sensible Republicans realize it's better to get some of what you want than nothing, which is what Johnson will get if he shoots this down.
One of the few things Sean Hannity said that I believe in is when he was asked in 2008 why he supported John McCain, with whom he often disagreed. His answer was that he probably agreed with McCain about 70% of the time, which was better than Obama, with whom he almost never agreed. Actual government, as opposed to posturing, is about getting 70% of what you want instead of pouting and getting nothing. Mitch McConnell realizes this. Bernie Sanders realizes this. James Lankford realizes this. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez realizes this. Even Lindsay Graham realizes this. But you'd rather rail on about the swamp than do something to address what you contend is the greatest crisis this country faces other than rigged voting machines.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:47 pm
by Bob78164
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:55 am
Fixed it for 'ya.
What you and the others who sincerely believe Johnson's nonsense (as opposed to Trump and his fellow opportunists) FAIL TO RECOGNIZE is that politics in a republican form of government is a matter of negotiation and compromise. It's been that way in this country since the Constitutional Convention. When you have a divided government, nobody gets everything they want. A lot of progressive Democrats are unhappy with this bill. But they and the sensible Republicans realize it's better to get some of what you want than nothing, which is what Johnson will get if he shoots this down.
One of the few things Sean Hannity said that I believe in is when he was asked in 2008 why he supported John McCain, with whom he often disagreed. His answer was that he probably agreed with McCain about 70% of the time, which was better than Obama, with whom he almost never agreed. Actual government, as opposed to posturing, is about getting 70% of what you want instead of pouting and getting nothing. Mitch McConnell realizes this. Bernie Sanders realizes this. James Lankford realizes this. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez realizes this. Even Lindsay Graham realizes this. But you'd rather rail on about the swamp than do something to address what you contend is the greatest crisis this country faces other than rigged voting machines.
I think you forgot some important words. --Bob
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 12:54 pm
by Weyoun
The same folks, keep claiming, it’s a crisis, yet when they get a chance to do something, they don’t pass a bill, they… pull off another impeachment stunt.
And yes flock I am sure that Nancy Pelosi did something at some point that you think is similar, but you think justifies this. That’s what a child says. You have the mind of a child. Try to act like an adult if you think this is an actual problem.
I’m also confused by the Republican of coherence on Ukraine. Apparently they have no problem attacking Iran, though that would be expensive and all sorts of other problems, but giving Ukraine money is simply beyond the pale. I never really got that other than the fact that they’re rooting for Russia, of course, they would think that.
Once you realize that the folks in charge of Republican party are bigots, everything makes sense. They are against immigration because they don’t like brown people, but they’re not really worried about them, they just like talking about how bad brown people are. They think brown people should be bombed, so those support that, but preventing World War III, by other means, isn’t worth their time.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:31 pm
by flockofseagulls104
This bill ain't going to fix anything. Any more than any of the past bills have fixed anything. They've all led to where we are now. Proclaim your TDS as loud as you want. Call me names, if that's what gets you off. Play the fucking race card, which is always your first and last resort. We are tired of compromising. This is an abominable bill. And I thank God we finally have someone that, at least up to this point, has shown come cajones that is standing up to the bullshit.
Tell me, you wonderful lefties, why the Senate won't look at HB2? Is that not grossly irresponsible?
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:35 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Yeah, it's an immigration bill alright.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:59 pm
by flockofseagulls104
The strongest argument against this bill is that the President currently has all the authority needed to shut down the border NOW. There doesn't need to be a bill. But biden will not do it. If a bill is desired, HR2 looks to be more like what should be done.
The reason for this bill is to codify the current chaos and prevent Trump from fixing it when he gets into office.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 5:44 pm
by silverscreenselect
If more people like you took part in the Constitutional Convention, you'd be leading the expressions of best wishes on this Bored tonight for the good health of our Majesty, King Charles.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:46 pm
by tlynn78
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:59 pm
The strongest argument against this bill is that the President currently has all the authority needed to shut down the border NOW. There doesn't need to be a bill. But biden will not do it. If a bill is desired, HR2 looks to be more like what should be done.
The reason for this bill is to codify the current chaos and prevent Trump from fixing it when he gets into office.
Exactly this.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:30 pm
by Pastor Fireball
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:19 am
Here's the immigration bill that's a result of months of bipartisan negotiations in the Senate.
It's grossly irresponsible for MAGA Mike Johnson to have announced it's dead on arrival even before seeing it. But I thought I'd start this thread so that people can comment on the actual contents of the bill. --Bob
The contents of the bill are, for lack of better words, a real conservative's wet dream. It's everything that real conservatives have been campaigning on for the past 30 years--closing the border, more border guards, increased drug screening, ending catch-and-release, expediting the deportation process, no pathway to citizenship for illegal/undocumented DREAMers--but have done f**k-all about it because there would be nobody to pick their vegetables or mow their lawns for below minimum wage.
I'd like to see Johnson go through with his DOA threat. President Biden would be at the border the very next day to call out the GOP's duplicity and campaign on their immigration platform. I'm sure the DNC is already preparing to cut those 30-second ads of Repubicans talking out of both sides of their asses.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:25 pm
by flockofseagulls104
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 5:44 pm
If more people like you took part in the Constitutional Convention, you'd be leading the expressions of best wishes on this Bored tonight for the good health of our Majesty, King Charles.
People like me did lead the Constitutional Convention. And they created a Constitutional Republic, definitely NOT a democracy, if we could keep it. And they were most cautionary about people like you.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:55 pm
by silverscreenselect
I'd like you to explain which provisions in these bullet points, call it what you like, that you think are bad for this country and why.
You might also explain this statement from the men and women who are actually on the front lines at the border:
As conservatives in Congress have blasted the new bipartisan border agreement for not going far enough, the legislation earned a key endorsement on Monday: the labor union that represents U.S. Border Patrol agents. The National Border Patrol Council — which represents more than 18,000 agents — said the bill would “drop illegal border crossings nationwide and will allow our agents to get back to detecting and apprehending those who want to cross our border illegally and evade apprehension.”
It's a significant statement of support from a group that endorsed former President Donald Trump in 2020 and has repeatedly railed against President Joe Biden’s handling of the border. “While not perfect, the Border Act of 2024 is a step in the right direction and is far better than the current status quo,” Brandon Judd, president of the council, said in the statement. “This is why the National Border Patrol Council endorses this bill and hopes for its quick passage.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... rcna137354
I guess they're part of the swamp now as well.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:20 am
by Weyoun
This is untreated, mental illness. You have Donald Trump, who is a narcissist and labile, and obviously mentally ill. You have people like flock who have paranoid delusions. It’s not surprising when you ask these people to put together anything coherent, they can’t, since they can barely cope with normal human interactions.
And they’re holding a gun to our heads, saying that we have to do everything they want, or they’ll bring down the country
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:36 am
by kroxquo
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:25 pm
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 5:44 pm
If more people like you took part in the Constitutional Convention, you'd be leading the expressions of best wishes on this Bored tonight for the good health of our Majesty, King Charles.
People like me did lead the Constitutional Convention. And they created a Constitutional Republic, definitely NOT a democracy, if we could keep it. And they were most cautionary about people like you.
Flock, I try to be respectful of your views no matter how extreme and how much I may vehemently disagree with you. But you are no Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton. Madison, Frankiln et al. Conceived and constructed a democratic republic based on the idea of more power to the federal government than had been seen before, and rule by an elite which is why voting was restricted to wealthy, white men. This kind of sounds like “the Swamp” you are always railing about. Honestly, in terms of the 1780’s-90’s, I see you more as an Anti-Federalist. There’s no shame to that. Their ranks included Sam Adams, John Hancock, and Patrick Henry as well as (almost certainly) Jefferson had he been in America at the time of the framing. They had some valid points about power and we would not have the Bill of Rights without them.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:06 am
by tlynn78
Weyoun wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:20 am
This is untreated, mental illness. You have Donald Trump, who is a narcissist and labile, and obviously mentally ill. You have people like flock who have paranoid delusions. It’s not surprising when you ask these people to put together anything coherent, they can’t, since they can barely cope with normal human interactions.
And they’re holding a gun to our heads, saying that we have to do everything they want, or they’ll bring down the country
Self-reflection isn't your bag, clearly, but give it a whirl.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:50 am
by flockofseagulls104
Weyoun wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:20 am
This is untreated, mental illness. You have Donald Trump, who is a narcissist and labile, and obviously mentally ill. You have people like flock who have paranoid delusions. It’s not surprising when you ask these people to put together anything coherent, they can’t, since they can barely cope with normal human interactions.
And they’re holding a gun to our heads, saying that we have to do everything they want, or they’ll bring down the country
Slow down for a bit, doc. It takes me some time to add all your new contributions to my signature.
It's interesting that all of a sudden the border has become such a big issue for folks like you. Never has been before. So much so that you portray any resistance to this bill as 'bringing down the country'. I'd do some self-reflection on the paranoia issue.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:09 am
by jarnon
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:50 am
It's interesting that all of a sudden the border has become such a big issue for folks like you. Never has been before. So much so that you portray any resistance to this bill as 'bringing down the country'. I'd do some self-reflection on the paranoia issue.
Read the bill summary that you posted. The House GOP is holding hostage funds we need to defend against foreign and domestic threats. They had the same attitude about the debt ceiling and budget, and eventually compromised. I hope they do again.
Folks like us are very aware of the asylum seekers everywhere, with inadequate federal support and even prohibited from earning a living while they wait for adjudication. The border was a big deal before, when Trump warehoused migrants in camps or in squalid, dangerous Mexican border towns.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:12 am
by tlynn78
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:50 am
Weyoun wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:20 am
This is untreated, mental illness. You have Donald Trump, who is a narcissist and labile, and obviously mentally ill. You have people like flock who have paranoid delusions. It’s not surprising when you ask these people to put together anything coherent, they can’t, since they can barely cope with normal human interactions.
And they’re holding a gun to our heads, saying that we have to do everything they want, or they’ll bring down the country
Slow down for a bit, doc. It takes me some time to add all your new contributions to my signature.
It's interesting that all of a sudden the border has become such a big issue for folks like you. Never has been before. So much so that you portray any resistance to this bill as 'bringing down the country'. I'd do some self-reflection on the paranoia issue.
Flock. C'mon man. ANY opposition to anything they're told they want is "a threat to our democracy" "bringing down the country" "insurrection" and the good doc's favorite crutch, "racism"
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:54 am
by Bob78164
jarnon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:09 am
The border was a big deal before, when Trump warehoused migrants in camps or in squalid, dangerous Mexican border towns.
It was an even bigger deal when Donny used the full power of the federal government to forcibly separate children from their parents, in some cases literally ripping kids from their mothers' arms. Never forget that stain on the country. --Bob
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:37 am
by Weyoun
No one said it wasn’t a problem. I think Biden sitting on this issue is going to be a very costly for him.
It just wasn’t the existential issue, threatening a republic that some of us here claim that it is. The same folks now apparently don’t want to support a border bill, because Biden will sign it, suggesting that in fact, it is not an existential threat. Make up your mind.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:08 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Weyoun wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:37 am
No one said it wasn’t a problem. I think Biden sitting on this issue is going to be a very costly for him.
It just wasn’t the existential issue, threatening a republic that some of us here claim that it is. The same folks now apparently don’t want to support a border bill, because Biden will sign it, suggesting that in fact, it is not an existential threat. Make up your mind.
What we don't need is a bill that was negotiated for 4 months in secrecy, then released as the 'conservative's wet dream' (that no true conservative likes) but does nothing but ensure the chaos created by the biden policies, or lack of them, continues as law. By an administration that has precedent for ignoring the existing laws anyway.
The border is an existential crisis, which needs a solution. This isn't it.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:34 pm
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:08 pm
Weyoun wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:37 am
The border is an existential crisis, which needs a solution.
Well, we learned today what the GOP solution is to Flock's existential crisis.
Hold an impeachment vote on Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and then fail to impeach him. A very productive use of everyone's time.
I'm also waiting for someone to explain what "high crimes and misdemeanors" they think Mayorkas is guilty of. It's ironic that on the day Trump complains that if presidents don't have full immunity that they will be subject to political prosecutions, they House Republicans try (and fail) to engage in a political impeachment of Mayorkas.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:39 pm
by flockofseagulls104
I'm also waiting for someone to explain what "high crimes and misdemeanors" they think Mayorkas is guilty of.
Congrats! You've joined the club! I am still waiting for someone to explain what "high crimes and misdemeanors" Trump was guilty of. On two occasions! But since TDS has rendered having actual charges for impeachment irrelevant, WHO CARES! Welcome to the world you created.
Just wait until the repubs take over after biden gets out of office. If this DC court's ruling holds up, I hope biden, et al will be indicted for everything under the sun. I won't like it one bit, but your side started it. That's the only way this shit will ever stop. Sorry. But not much. It's happening right now, and you're celebrating it.
Re: The Immigration Bill
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:01 pm
by Weyoun
Big talk. Lol. You couldn’t even impeach Mayorkas, does not all of you are capable of that level stupidity.
I’ve said, before, not that you paid attention, that I disagreed with the Ukraine impeachment. I thought impeaching him for trying to overthrow our government was actually textbook, high crimes and misdemeanors, and he probably should’ve been convicted of treason also.
I’m not sure thinking that someone being president is immune from everything is good for anyone, or very democratic. Not sure why overthrowing the government is OK just because the guy who tried to do it is somehow you like.
Not everything has to be a constant escalation of back-and-forth. If you think something the Democrats did was terrible, you can also not do it, because you think it’s bad for the country. But you seem to be focused on driving everything to the very bottom.
The result is hilarious. No immigration bill, because I might accomplish something. You have to have perpetual grievance.
This house of representatives done absolutely zero. Technically hasn’t even passed the budget yet.