Fire up the toaster, political edition

[earendel]

Ron DeSantis is all but toast.

For the life of me, and for many others, I cannot understand why he did not just wait 4 years. He had enormous political capital and stock among the conservative base for his performance and policies in Florida. He would have inherited the MAGA movement. He has squandered that and will never be viewed the same way again. His national appeal and image are GONE.

TBH, I don't think there will be a solid MAGA movement after Trump. No one can command the stage like he does, no one can play the victim like Trump or be as arrogant as Trump. There will be a lot of scrambling by others, but I envision a splintering of the movement as different people try to retain the loyalty of the MAGA people.

Earendel, It is not solely about Trump. I am afraid you are way too reliant on the MSM for your news and opinions.

The MAGA movement is the evolution of the Tea Party movement, which was slandered and attacked by the mainstream media in the same way trump and MAGA was and is. We are NOT going away. We know the MSM lies and slanders us, and we don't care, because we know who we are and we know what they are. We know they are lying. Just as I know most of the stuff trollboy says about me is bullshit.

It is a movement, not something tied to one person. That is what you and the MSM don't understand. Trump is the only possible current Presidential candidate who espouses our values and objectives. And for me, he didn't have my support in 2016. I didn't vote for him then, because my vote was irrelevant, but I would have if I lived where I am now. Just as the lesser of two eviIs. I think he won in 2016 because of the movement and the general unlikability of Clinton. He EARNED my support in 2020 and 2024 because of what he accomplished in his administration.

I have no doubt that the issues that the MAGA movement are real (the NYT article makes that clear). But only someone with the charisma of a Donald Trump will be able to motivate it, and after he's gone, there isn't anyone comparable.

In coming years there will be more. Vivek may turn out to be one of these. Maybe Don Jr or Eric? Who knows.

If that's the best the movement has to offer, it's doomed.

[flockofseagulls104]

TBH, I don't think there will be a solid MAGA movement after Trump. No one can command the stage like he does, no one can play the victim like Trump or be as arrogant as Trump. There will be a lot of scrambling by others, but I envision a splintering of the movement as different people try to retain the loyalty of the MAGA people.

Earendel, It is not solely about Trump. I am afraid you are way too reliant on the MSM for your news and opinions.

The MAGA movement is the evolution of the Tea Party movement, which was slandered and attacked by the mainstream media in the same way trump and MAGA was and is. We are NOT going away. We know the MSM lies and slanders us, and we don't care, because we know who we are and we know what they are. We know they are lying. Just as I know most of the stuff trollboy says about me is bullshit.

It is a movement, not something tied to one person. That is what you and the MSM don't understand. Trump is the only possible current Presidential candidate who espouses our values and objectives. And for me, he didn't have my support in 2016. I didn't vote for him then, because my vote was irrelevant, but I would have if I lived where I am now. Just as the lesser of two eviIs. I think he won in 2016 because of the movement and the general unlikability of Clinton. He EARNED my support in 2020 and 2024 because of what he accomplished in his administration.

I have no doubt that the issues that the MAGA movement are real (the NYT article makes that clear). But only someone with the charisma of a Donald Trump will be able to motivate it, and after he's gone, there isn't anyone comparable.

In coming years there will be more. Vivek may turn out to be one of these. Maybe Don Jr or Eric? Who knows.

If that's the best the movement has to offer, it's doomed.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are in the MSM echo chamber. You really don't know many true facts about anything on the other side of the fence, I'm afraid.

[earendel]

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are in the MSM echo chamber. You really don't know many true facts about anything on the other side of the fence, I'm afraid.

You are entitled to your opinion also, but you are in the MAGA echo chamber. I have agreed that the issues that the MAGA movement support are real. I just don't believe that there is anyone in the MAGA movement capable of harnessing the energy and zeal of the movement the way that Trump could.

[flockofseagulls104]

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are in the MSM echo chamber. You really don't know many true facts about anything on the other side of the fence, I'm afraid.

You are entitled to your opinion also, but you are in the MAGA echo chamber. I have agreed that the issues that the MAGA movement support are real. I just don't believe that there is anyone in the MAGA movement capable of harnessing the energy and zeal of the movement the way that Trump could.

Maybe, but my MAGA echo chamber is in reaction to the cultural narrative that is being pushed by the mainstream media conglomerate. I see both sides. Most of you only see the attacks on us. We are driven by our values, not by any one person. That's what the conglomerate doesn't want to understand.

[silverscreenselect]

We are driven by our values, not by any one person.

Well, the only values I've seen expressed are vague expressions about getting even and "draining the swamp." To the extent that you espouse traditional conservative positions like being anti-abortion, so do people like Mike Pence and Liz Cheney, who have been hounded and ridiculed and practically drummed out of the Republican party. Trump is the embodiment of all of your sentiments, and once he's gone, the movement will splinter and fall apart.

[flockofseagulls104]

We are driven by our values, not by any one person.

Well, the only values I've seen expressed are vague expressions about getting even and "draining the swamp." To the extent that you espouse traditional conservative positions like being anti-abortion, so do people like Mike Pence and Liz Cheney, who have been hounded and ridiculed and practically drummed out of the Republican party. Trump is the embodiment of all of your sentiments, and once he's gone, the movement will splinter and fall apart.

Well, it's pretty evident that you only see what you want to see when you want to see it, and truth does not matter to you whatsoever. So there's that.

[flockofseagulls104]

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are in the MSM echo chamber. You really don't know many true facts about anything on the other side of the fence, I'm afraid.

You are entitled to your opinion also, but you are in the MAGA echo chamber. I have agreed that the issues that the MAGA movement support are real. I just don't believe that there is anyone in the MAGA movement capable of harnessing the energy and zeal of the movement the way that Trump could.

Maybe, but my MAGA echo chamber is in reaction to the cultural narrative that is being pushed by the mainstream media conglomerate. I see both sides. Most of you only see the attacks on us. We are driven by our values, not by any one person. That's what the conglomerate doesn't want to understand.

Consider this, ear: How is it that our current president, the MSM, and the democrat party is pushing the notion that AT LEAST HALF THE VOTING POPULATION OF THIS COUNTRY is a 'threat to our democracy', or some variance of that bull. I, myself, never got the memo on that. Do you really believe that? Do you really believe that me and people like me want to end this republic (not democracy) and set up some kind of government that our accusers can't and won't define? That someone who was already President for 4 years is going to come in and establish a dictatorship somehow? And that anyone would let him?
I think you have the capacity to get real, unlike some of the others on this bored. Consider getting real.

[silverscreenselect]

How is it that our current president, the MSM, and the democrat party is pushing the notion that AT LEAST HALF THE VOTING POPULATION OF THIS COUNTRY is a 'threat to our democracy', or some variance of that bull.

March 1933 German parliamentary elections: Adolph Hitler 43.9% of vote
November 2020 American presidential election: Donald Trump 46.8% of vote

44% of the German voting age population in 1933 was a threat to their democracy.

[jarnon]

Do you really believe that me and people like me want to end this republic (not democracy) and set up some kind of government that our accusers can't and won't define? That someone who was already President for 4 years is going to come in and establish a dictatorship somehow? And that anyone would let him?

That's why it's vital that the Supreme Court uphold lower court decisions on presidential immunity. No president should have unchecked power without legal guardrails. I don't imagine the Founding Fathers, witnessing the excesses of European monarchs, would put our head of state above the rule of law, and rely on armed civilians to protect us from tyranny.

[jarnon]

Ron DeSantis ends presidential campaign before New Hampshire primary

[flockofseagulls104]

How is it that our current president, the MSM, and the democrat party is pushing the notion that AT LEAST HALF THE VOTING POPULATION OF THIS COUNTRY is a 'threat to our democracy', or some variance of that bull.

March 1933 German parliamentary elections: Adolph Hitler 43.9% of vote
November 2020 American presidential election: Donald Trump 46.8% of vote

44% of the German voting age population in 1933 was a threat to their democracy.

The threat to our democracy is the party currently in power, and is currently neck-deep in trying to put its political opponents in jail by whatever means possible and disenfranchising half the voters in the country. Don't talk to me about Hitler.

[flockofseagulls104]

Do you really believe that me and people like me want to end this republic (not democracy) and set up some kind of government that our accusers can't and won't define? That someone who was already President for 4 years is going to come in and establish a dictatorship somehow? And that anyone would let him?

That's why it's vital that the Supreme Court uphold lower court decisions on presidential immunity. No president should have unchecked power without legal guardrails. I don't imagine the Founding Fathers, witnessing the excesses of European monarchs, would put our head of state above the rule of law, and rely on armed civilians to protect us from tyranny.

We don't elect lawyers to run this country, jarnon. THANK GOD FOR THAT. We elect the President of the United States, who takes an oath to the Constitution and who can be impeached and convicted if they commit any act that will potentially lead to tyranny. That used to be enough until the democrats decided to water down impeachment to frivolity. The president must be free to act according to that office's responsibilities without facing LAWFARE from whatever highly funded activist law firm decides they didn't agree with this or that decision that was made during their administration.

Again, you don't want to establish this precedent. Biden will be in a world of shit after he leaves office. But that probably won't matter much to him. He will have no idea what's going on. But it will apply to EVERY President from now on. Whether you like them or not.

Your side is spreading the idea that Trump will be vengeful when he takes office. No. He will be using the precedents your side has established.

[Beebs52]

"Your side is spreading the idea that Trump will be vengeful when he takes office. No. He will be using the precedents your side has established."

Which is why I have no faith in either party to govern honestly.
We are fucked.

[silverscreenselect]

The threat to our democracy is the party currently in power, and is currently neck-deep in trying to put its political opponents in jail by whatever means possible

No, the Justice Department is trying to use the legal system to put a criminal in jail who has been indicted multiple times. Or do you think all the evidence against Trump is just lies and imagination?

[silverscreenselect]

Ron DeSantis ends presidential campaign before New Hampshire primary

Ron DeSantis is MAGA-ism without Donald Trump's personal charisma. And that's why MAGA-ism is going away when Trump goes to jail.

[flockofseagulls104]

The threat to our democracy is the party currently in power, and is currently neck-deep in trying to put its political opponents in jail by whatever means possible

No, the Justice Department is trying to use the legal system to put a criminal in jail who has been indicted multiple times. Or do you think all the evidence against Trump is just lies and imagination?

You got it! Most definitely. Just like the two bullshit impeachments and the star chamber 'hearings'. You like to make Hitler allusions. How about this one from Stalin's Russia, comrade: "Give me the man, I'll give you the crime."

Here's a more appropriate question: Is there anything you think he's not guilty of?

[flockofseagulls104]

"Your side is spreading the idea that Trump will be vengeful when he takes office. No. He will be using the precedents your side has established."

Which is why I have no faith in either party to govern honestly.
We are fucked.

Beebs, you now have to choose between the lesser of two fuckeds. But decide based on who fucked it first and who's going to continue fucking it til no one can fuck with them ever again.

[Beebs52]

"Your side is spreading the idea that Trump will be vengeful when he takes office. No. He will be using the precedents your side has established."

Which is why I have no faith in either party to govern honestly.
We are fucked.

Beebs, you now have to choose between the lesser of two fuckeds. But decide based on who fucked it first and who's going to continue fucking it til no one can fuck with them ever again.

Been there done that. This crap has been going on for many decades.

[flockofseagulls104]

"Your side is spreading the idea that Trump will be vengeful when he takes office. No. He will be using the precedents your side has established."

Which is why I have no faith in either party to govern honestly.
We are fucked.

Beebs, you now have to choose between the lesser of two fuckeds. But decide based on who fucked it first and who's going to continue fucking it til no one can fuck with them ever again.

Been there done that. This crap has been going on for many decades.

Go with the brain-dead people on this bored and their replicants in the world who continue to believe that all is right in the world with biden's masters in charge, and ignore all evidence to the contrary, or go with people who, like you, recognize it's all fucked up but want to fix it? What do you got to lose?

[Beebs52]

I believe Trump is fucked up, too. So there ya go.

[flockofseagulls104]

I believe Trump is fucked up, too. So there ya go.

the people who hate him with all their being are more fucked up. Just sayin....

[silverscreenselect]

Go with the brain-dead people on this bored and their replicants in the world who continue to believe that all is right in the world with biden's masters in charge, and ignore all evidence to the contrary, or go with people who, like you, recognize it's all fucked up but want to fix it? What do you got to lose?

I'm just curious who you think is behind all this: SPECTRE, the New World Order, the Illuminati, the Invaders, the Freemasons, or is it some group that only you know about?

You're good at ignoring facts and reality in favor of baseless allegations. There's a reason that people who think like you have lost 60+ court cases. There, you have to produce evidence to support your allegations, not conspiracy theories. And you're getting close to seeing Trump get hit with two massive judgments, one for defaming and raping a woman and one for committing massive fraud. None of which matters because Donald Trump says so.

[flockofseagulls104]

Go with the brain-dead people on this bored and their replicants in the world who continue to believe that all is right in the world with biden's masters in charge, and ignore all evidence to the contrary, or go with people who, like you, recognize it's all fucked up but want to fix it? What do you got to lose?

I'm just curious who you think is behind all this: SPECTRE, the New World Order, the Illuminati, the Invaders, the Freemasons, or is it some group that only you know about?

You're good at ignoring facts and reality in favor of baseless allegations. There's a reason that people who think like you have lost 60+ court cases. There, you have to produce evidence to support your allegations, not conspiracy theories. And you're getting close to seeing Trump get hit with two massive judgments, one for defaming and raping a woman and one for committing massive fraud. None of which matters because Donald Trump says so.

I doubt you've seen the twitter history of the woman who you said he 'raped', when no court says he did. I thought you were a lawyer. Above or below average?

[silverscreenselect]

I doubt you've seen the twitter history of the woman who you said he 'raped', when no court says he did. I thought you were a lawyer. Above or below average?

You're right. The court found that she hadn't proved that Trump raped her, but she had proved that he sexually abused her. I'm sure you're very proud of that distinction. Here's how the judge explained the difference in response to a motion by Trump:

“The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ‘raped’ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ‘raped’ her as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape,’ ” Kaplan wrote. He added: “Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that.”

Kaplan said New York’s legal definition of “rape” is “far narrower” than the word is understood in “common modern parlance.” The former requires forcible, unconsented-to penetration with one’s penis. But he said that the conduct the jury effectively found Trump liable for — forced digital penetration — meets a more common definition of rape. He cited definitions offered by the American Psychological Association and the Justice Department, which in 2012 expanded its definition of rape to include penetration “with any body part or object.”

Kaplan also flatly rejected the Trump team’s suggestion that the conduct Trump was found liable for might have been as limited as groping of the breasts. The reason? Trump was not accused of that, so the only alleged offense that would have qualified as “sexual abuse” was forced digital penetration. Beyond that, Trump was accused of putting his mouth on Carroll’s mouth and pulling down her tights, which Kaplan noted were not treated as alleged sexual abuse at trial. “The jury’s finding of sexual abuse therefore necessarily implies that it found that Mr. Trump forcibly penetrated her vagina,” Kaplan wrote, calling it the “only remaining conclusion.” Kaplan also noted that the verdict form did not ask the jury to decide exactly what conduct Trump had committed, and that neither prosecutors nor Trump’s lawyers had requested it to do so. “Mr. Trump’s attempt to minimize the sexual abuse finding as perhaps resting on nothing more than groping of Ms. Carroll’s breasts through her clothing is frivolous,” Kaplan wrote. He added that the jury clearly found that Trump had “ ‘raped’ her in the sense of that term broader than the New York Penal Law definition.”

[flockofseagulls104]

I doubt you've seen the twitter history of the woman who you said he 'raped', when no court says he did. I thought you were a lawyer. Above or below average?

You're right. The court found that she hadn't proved that Trump raped her, but she had proved that he sexually abused her. I'm sure you're very proud of that distinction.

So why the fuck are you going around saying that Trump raped someone? What kind of lawyer are you? Why should we believe anything you say using your supposed mantle of 'attorney'?

No, I disagree with the jury in the US District Court of Southern New York case. I don't think it ever happened. So, whatabout Juanita Brodderick?

Crimes must generally be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt," whereas civil cases are proved by lower standards of proof, such as "the preponderance of the evidence."

The term, "the preponderance of evidence," refers to how it was more likely than not that something occurred in a certain way.

The only 'evidence' she could produce was correspondence from that time. She could not even remember any details. But she knew at the time he was a rich celebrity. That, combined with the fact of her sordid twitter history (which I don't believe the jury knew about) and the preponderance of TDS in the 'SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK', lead me to believe that she was convinced to do this. Now, not then, and not anytime in between, but NOW. Along with the onslaught of all the other lawfare. Like all the other lawfare cases, they didn't care whether they won or lost the actual case. Either way, it was a win for them. No downside. And I believe it never really ever happened. That's my opinion. Based upon a preponderance of evidence. But I don't live in NYC anymore, and I probably know more than they were presented. And I don't have a biased judge directing me. And I don't have TDS.

Oh, a little evidence?

A couple of weeks after the New York magazine article was published, Carroll ran into lawyer George Conway (a Trump critic and husband of Kellyanne Conway), who told her to file a defamation lawsuit and helped her find a lawyer. Conway then wrote an op-ed for The Washington Post encouraging readers to believe Carroll.[21]

Who is funding her legal team?

Time for a little whataboutism?
So what about Juanita? Et al, I will add. (How about Epstein?) How come no trials for Bill? Haven't heard much outrage from you and yours on that subject...
All I see from your side is desperate, unsuccessful attempts to somehow link Trump to Epstein. And baseless slandering with false charges of being guilty of rape. Maybe Trump should sue you for defamation on the bored. Might get 50 cents. But I guess all those things are baseless allegations and everything E. Jean Carroll says is gospel.