WWTBAM Bored

Do we generate enough electricity to power all vehicles if they're all there are?

I'm afraid this might get political, so I am asking here.

Without fossil fuels no.

Beebs52 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:34 pm

Without fossil fuels no.

I meant right now, with our current electrical grid.

Bob Juch wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:27 am

Beebs52 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:34 pm

Without fossil fuels no.

I meant right now, with our current electrical grid.

Not with the heat.

Beebs52 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:34 pm

Without fossil fuels no.

How do you know that? --Bob

Obviously I don't. It's an opinion. But some electricity is like produced by them? Somebody tole me that.

Beebs52 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:34 am

Obviously I don't. It's an opinion. But some electricity is like produced by them? Somebody tole me that.

The Sufco Mine in Sevier County, Utah has an overland belt conveyor system that transports coal to the nearby Jim Bridger Power Plant. The mine produces 4.9 million short tons per year.

Beebs52 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:34 am

Obviously I don't. It's an opinion. But some electricity is like produced by them? Somebody tole me that.

I'm not sure you're wrong. I seem to recall that last summer in some areas people were asked to refrain from charging their vehicles during certain times in order to prevent a brownout. And there were fewer EVs then than today.

Question: If we had only electric vehicles in the U.S., would we have enough power to recharge them all?

No, not even close (but check my math)

290,800,000 cars in the US

Average 13,000 miles a year

Equals 3,925,800,000,000.00 miles driver per year

2023 Prius Prim needs 13.6 kWh to go 44 miles = 3.235294118 miles per kWh

If every car was as efficient as a 2023 Prius Prim we'd need 1,213,429,090,909.09 kWh (3,925,800,000,000 / 3.235294118)

Total US electrice production in 2022 was 4,243,000,000,000 kWh

That's almost 30% of the total US generation capacity.

Only 19.1 billion miles (0.5% of total miles) are driven by electricity.

Meaning current electric consumption of EVs is around 5,900,000,000 kWh if the average is 1/2 the efficiency of a Prius.
Meaning we'd it would be a 200x increase in electric car demand if all current cars were now priuses. To be able to do that now we'd have to have current EXCESS electric generation capacity of 1,201,621,818,181 kWh or 28% of current generation.

We DO NOT have 28% current excess capacity.

Currently all forms of renewable energy is 913 billion kWh or about 75% of the need if all cars were electric Prius. So we'd need to increase our renewable capability 33% JUST to power cars, if all renewable electricity went to cars.

A quick Google search indicates that we would need 20-50 percent more electricity just to run an all electric car system.

This supports BiT's calculations.

Always remember-in regard to electric vehicles-that regardless of the status of the electric grid here, they run on "Blood Batteries" from the Congo as shown in the Congo book I referenced in another thread.

"Coabalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives."

One thing that will increase the needed electricity to run all electric cars (powered by "Blood Batteries" from the Congo) is that if we use as many pickup trucks as we do now-I assume that an electric F150 will use more electricity than a Prius or a Tesla. Not very many of the pickup truck crowd has gone electric yet.

This will skew the electricity needed more to an expansion of 50% than 20%.

Spock wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:29 am

Always remember-in regard to electric vehicles-that regardless of the status of the electric grid here, they run on "Blood Batteries" from the Congo as shown in the Congo book I referenced in another thread.

"Coabalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives."

Lithium mining is pretty nasty too.

Spock wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:32 pm

One thing that will increase the needed electricity to run all electric cars (powered by "Blood Batteries" from the Congo) is that if we use as many pickup trucks as we do now-I assume that an electric F150 will use more electricity than a Prius or a Tesla. Not very many of the pickup truck crowd has gone electric yet.

This will skew the electricity needed more to an expansion of 50% than 20%.

There's another problem with self-driving pickups:

My Self-Driving Truck Done Driven Itself Away

(Verse 1)
G C
Woke up this morning, sun shining high,
G D
Reached for my keys, gave a deep sigh.
G C
Looked out the window, where's my ride?
G D G
My self-driving truck, it left my side.

(Chorus)
G C
My self-driving truck done driven itself away,
G D
Maybe it didn’t like the muddin games I play.
G C
Should've been careful, not been so rough,
G D G
Now I’m here stranded; man, life’s tough.

(Verse 2)
G C
Had some good memories in that truck,
G D
Moonlit drives, getting stuck in muck.
G C
But I reckon it had its very own mind,
G D G
Got tired of muddin, left me behind.

(Chorus)
G C
My self-driving truck done driven itself away,
G D
Guess those dirt roads were a price to pay.
G C
I always thought it'd stay true,
G D G
Never imagined it’d leave without a clue.

(Bridge)
Em C
Now I’m standin' by the roadside,
Em D
Hitching a ride, swallowed my pride.
Em C
Wondering if somewhere tonight,
G D G
My truck's cruising under the starlight.

(Verse 3)
G C
Heard a story about a truck downtown,
G D
Dancing to its engine without a frown.
G C
Could it be mine? Is it living free?
G D G
Wishing I was there for the jamboree.

(Chorus)
G C
My self-driving truck done driven itself away,
G D
I miss it more with each passing day.
G C
Shouldn’t have taken it through all that muddin,
G D G
Regret fills my heart with each thuddin'.

(Outro)
Em C
So here’s to the rides, the mud, and the rain,
Em D
To the joy, the laughter, and the pain.
G C
I’ll always remember, come what may,
G D G
The day my self-driving truck driven itself away.

BiT's math appears correct to me, and that's not even accounting for the fact that in my area of the planet, for instance, nearly all of that energy is generated by coal, which is (so far) marginally worse than petroleum in terms of emissions and damage to the environment. That's why I haven't jumped on the EV bandwagon yet, and prefer driving my 2013 Mazda.

My opinion is that we keep missing the point about emerging technologies, though. At one time, gasoline was not the preferred method for driving vehicles. Then some smart people figured out that the energy density of petroleum made it a very attractive alternative to steam and other sources in use at the time. So government instituted a bunch of incentives for petroleum for vehicles, and 100 years later, here we are. The problems we have are twofold: (1) fossil fuels are non-renewable, therefore they WILL run out at some point. You can argue about when that inflection point is, but there's no doubt that there is an endpoint. (2)Fossil fuels contribute greatly to global climate change under current technology. So we have two choices: either pivot away from fossil fuels, or find a way to make those fuels amenable to Earth's environment, by carbon capture, or some other technological means. I'm willing to listen to people on either side of this issue, or even people who want to develop a third or fourth side, but the fact is, we can't wait much longer.

BTW, picky science teacher here, the correct term for the header is energy, not power.