Let it speak for itself

[Beebs52]

What are THEY in prison for?

[wbtravis007]

What facts can possibly have been omitted to make this a rational thing to do?

The woman has repeatedly requested gender-affirming surgery (cutting off the male sex organs) and her hormone levels are completely female now. When told she could not get the surgery, she even threatened to cut off her cojones herself. Three wardens and a district judge supported Judge Netburn's opinion. From Judge Netburn's testimony today:

The facts of the case were that the petitioner had last engaged in a contact offense 30 years ago, the petitioner had not engaged in any contact offense. In addition, the medical evidence made clear that for the last five years the petitioner was sober and hormonally entirely a female... The petitioner had engaged in no violence, no physical violence, no sexual violence whatsoever while in custody. All three wardens who supervised the petitioner requested that she be transferred to a women’s facility because of her serious medical needs.

In addition, the Bureau of Prisons’ longtime medical provider testified at a two-day hearing in my courtroom, and recommended the petitioner be transferred because of her serious needs. The Transgender Executive Council, which is the body that makes decisions on behalf of transgender transfer requests, never said that the petitioner could not be transferred and never ever said she couldn’t be transferred because of any risk of violence. The petitioner had reached full female hormone levels before being incarcerated. At the time, the district judge in Indiana requested that she be placed in a women’s facility. Her hormones were entirely female at that point.

Oh ffs. You people are straight up lunatics. How about you house "her" with your daughters? Granddaughters? I mean, since "she's" no danger, right?

If my son or grandson were to be in jail with this person I’d probably be very concerned about the possibility that this person might try to seduce him.

Among other things that I’d be pretty worried about.

So, I guess I’d agree with the wardens and the others on this in that situation: get this person out of here!

Guess that makes me a “straight up lunatic.”

[silverscreenselect]

Oh ffs. You people are straight up lunatics. How about you house "her" with your daughters? Granddaughters? I mean, since "she's" no danger, right?

There are a whole lot of women in prison I wouldn't want to house with my daughters or granddaughter. She is a lot less dangerous than most of them.

[jarnon]

Oh ffs. You people are straight up lunatics. How about you house "her" with your daughters? Granddaughters? I mean, since "she's" no danger, right?

You're parroting Sen. Cruz now. Shelby's not moving to a college dorm with our grandkids. They're in a prison with other lowlife and guards to keep them all in line.

[jarnon]

What are THEY in prison for?

They're in prison for child porn. They already served a sentence for two rapes 30 years ago.

[flockofseagulls104]

Insanity. And you support it. WHY?

[flockofseagulls104]

Oh ffs. You people are straight up lunatics. How about you house "her" with your daughters? Granddaughters? I mean, since "she's" no danger, right?

You're parroting Sen. Cruz now. Shelby's not moving to a college dorm with our grandkids. They're in a prison with other lowlife and guards to keep them all in line.

Again... Why? Why does some made-up and hopefully transitory political/social agenda substitute for rationality? He was born a man and no amount of hormones, surgeries or wardrobe will ever change that FACT. He will not be able to change his chromosomes. He can pretend all he wants, but nobody else has to pretend with him. And certainly not the LAW.

[silverscreenselect]

He was born a man and no amount of hormones, surgeries or wardrobe will ever change that FACT. He will not be able to change his chromosomes.

She was born a man with male hormones that controlled the sex drive. That fact has changed. She's going to get surgery to remove her male sex organs. That fact is going to change. So she will not be able to do what "real men" do that got her into jail in the first place 30 years ago. And she has no desire to do so thanks to her hormones.

One thing we should have learned from years of scientific and medical improvements is that people are no longer limited to what physical condition their chromosomes gave them at birth.

[flockofseagulls104]

He was born a man and no amount of hormones, surgeries or wardrobe will ever change that FACT. He will not be able to change his chromosomes.

She was born a man with male hormones that controlled the sex drive. That fact has changed. She's going to get surgery to remove her male sex organs. That fact is going to change. So she will not be able to do what "real men" do that got her into jail in the first place 30 years ago. And she has no desire to do so thanks to her hormones.

One thing we should have learned from years of scientific and medical improvements is that people are no longer limited to what physical condition their chromosomes gave them at birth.

Look at the photo I posted. Do you think any amount of hormones or surgeries will make any of those biological girls physically equal to the guy pretending to be a girl? You are all full of *#&$^.

[silverscreenselect]

Look at the photo I posted. Do you think any amount of hormones or surgeries will make any of those biological girls physically equal to the guy pretending to be a girl? You are all full of *#&$^.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with which prison this 60-year old prisoner should be assigned to. And no amount of hormones or surgery would have made Number 15 in this photo physically equal to Britney Griner, so I guess she should have been banned from high school basketball as well.

[tlynn78]

He was born a man and no amount of hormones, surgeries or wardrobe will ever change that FACT. He will not be able to change his chromosomes.

She was born a man with male hormones that controlled the sex drive. That fact has changed. She's going to get surgery to remove her male sex organs. That fact is going to change. So she will not be able to do what "real men" do that got her into jail in the first place 30 years ago. And she has no desire to do so thanks to her hormones.

One thing we should have learned from years of scientific and medical improvements is that people are no longer limited to what physical condition their chromosomes gave them at birth.

Are you really so naive you think one needs a penis to sexually assault someone? Nevermind - i know that answer...

[flockofseagulls104]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with which prison this 60-year old prisoner should be assigned to.

Says who? You? I say different. So does everyone else who has a rational brain.

And no amount of hormones or surgery would have made Number 15 in this photo physically equal to Britney Griner, so I guess she should have been banned from high school basketball as well.

You are right. And if SHE tried taking drugs, she would have been banned. I have no idea who she is, but if she works hard enough, she can play as well or better than any other FEMALE. That's kinda why we have women's sports, ain't it? Not only are you full of &#^, your arguments make absolutely no sense. Do you even realize that?

And the question you are desperately avoiding answering: WHY?

[silverscreenselect]

Are you really so naive you think one needs a penis to sexually assault someone? Nevermind - i know that answer...

There are plenty of women in women's prisons who assault their fellow prisoners and who are far more likely to do so than this trans woman. And that's according to three wardens who have a lot more insight into what's actually going on with this prisoner than you or Flock posting his pictures of trans athletes.

[tlynn78]

Are you really so naive you think one needs a penis to sexually assault someone? Nevermind - i know that answer...

There are plenty of women in women's prisons who assault their fellow prisoners and who are far more likely to do so than this trans woman. And that's according to three wardens who have a lot more insight into what's actually going on with this prisoner than you or Flock posting his pictures of trans athletes.

You have ZERO knowledge of the likelihood of "her" assaulting female prisoners. Zero, and neither do the wardens, unless they have the gift of seeing the future.

[Beebs52]

Are you really so naive you think one needs a penis to sexually assault someone? Nevermind - i know that answer...

There are plenty of women in women's prisons who assault their fellow prisoners and who are far more likely to do so than this trans woman. And that's according to three wardens who have a lot more insight into what's actually going on with this prisoner than you or Flock posting his pictures of trans athletes.

Then why would they want to be in that population, as opposed to men's?

[tlynn78]

Are you really so naive you think one needs a penis to sexually assault someone? Nevermind - i know that answer...

There are plenty of women in women's prisons who assault their fellow prisoners and who are far more likely to do so than this trans woman. And that's according to three wardens who have a lot more insight into what's actually going on with this prisoner than you or Flock posting his pictures of trans athletes.

Then why would they want to be in that population, as opposed to men's?

Share prison make-up tips?

[jarnon]

Then why would they want to be in that population, as opposed to men's?

I think they were hoping to have easier access to hormones, and maybe even sex-change surgery, in the women's prison. And maybe the women inmates wouldn't beat them up as badly.

I'm pleased that this scumbag transitioned. They were abhorrent as a man.

[flockofseagulls104]

WHY should we treat a man pretending to be a woman as a woman LEGALLY? What is the basis for that? Either legally or scientifically?

It is ONLY ideologically based. And it is wrong. And I will NEVER accept it. As in all communist countries, you will have to 'eliminate' me and all people like me before you can implement this doctrine. In this country as it was designed and founded, trans people are free to pretend to be whatever they want. That is their personal STATE OF MIND. But they cannot impose their state of mind on the rest of us legally.

[Beebs52]

Then why would they want to be in that population, as opposed to men's?

I think they were hoping to have easier access to hormones, and maybe even sex-change surgery, in the women's prison. And maybe the women inmates wouldn't beat them up as badly.

I'm pleased that this scumbag transitioned. They were abhorrent as a man.

My point was that so what? Half a dozen this, half a dozen that?
I honestly don't give a rat's ass about them, him, whatevs.
Also, not you, Jarnon, but sss, don't diss our Britney. She's gay. Ya got a prob with that?

[flockofseagulls104]

Are you really so naive you think one needs a penis to sexually assault someone? Nevermind - i know that answer...

There are plenty of women in women's prisons who assault their fellow prisoners and who are far more likely to do so than this trans woman. And that's according to three wardens who have a lot more insight into what's actually going on with this prisoner than you or Flock posting his pictures of trans athletes.

If they were good wardens, no one in their prisons would be assaulting anyone. And so, they are experts on this subject? Someone actually went through the trouble of finding 3 specific wardens to opine on this subject? What the hell do they have to do with the decision to send a man to a woman's prison?
You are supposed to be a lawyer? That would be one of your arguments?

[silverscreenselect]

If they were good wardens, no one in their prisons would be assaulting anyone. And so, they are experts on this subject? Someone actually went through the trouble of finding 3 specific wardens to opine on this subject?

Do you really think there is a prison anywhere in this country where prisoners don't assault each other? The three wardens happened to be the ones in charge of the men's prison where she was incarcerated at various times during her stay, not three wardens cherry-picked by an ACLU attorney. The evidence at the hearing was that the trans prisoner had been repeatedly harrassed and assaulted in the men's prison. From the judge's opinion:

The Wardens’ memos ... identify no serious infractions or raise any concern that Petitioner is likely to engage in inappropriate conduct. And, probably most
significantly, Petitioner is a different person than she was in 1993. She is sober, under consistent mental health counseling and medication management, and has maximized and stabilized her hormones within the target ranges for transgender women. A theoretical risk of sexual assault by Petitioner, without more, cannot support the BOP’s position.... Apart from conclusory statements, the BOP puts forth no evidence that Petitioner has or would sexually assault other prisoners at a women’s facility or that she poses a greater threat to women than that posed by any other prisoner.

The overwhelming evidence suggests that BOP’s decision to deny Petitioner a transfer to a women’s facility is based on bias and fear and not evidence. It is not reasonably related to the legitimate penological interest of protecting prisoners. The factors that the TEC is required to consider under the 2022 TEC Manual support her transfer, as does the evidence submitted by BOP staff, including three different wardens at FCI Otisville. And as discussed earlier, BOP’s “accommodations” are not adequate to address Petitioner’s serious medical needs. Accordingly, I conclude that the denial of Petitioner’s transfer cannot be excused as an appropriate exercise of BOP’s discretion.

Flock, when you shoot your mouth off without knowing what you're talking about, you shoot yourself in the foot every time.

[tlynn78]

Then why would they want to be in that population, as opposed to men's?

I think they were hoping to have easier access to hormones, and maybe even sex-change surgery, in the women's prison. And maybe the women inmates wouldn't beat them up as badly.

I'm pleased that this scumbag transitioned. They were abhorrent as a man.

I'm glad you're glad, but we don't want him

[flockofseagulls104]

If they were good wardens, no one in their prisons would be assaulting anyone. And so, they are experts on this subject? Someone actually went through the trouble of finding 3 specific wardens to opine on this subject?

Do you really think there is a prison anywhere in this country where prisoners don't assault each other? The three wardens happened to be the ones in charge of the men's prison where she was incarcerated at various times during her stay, not three wardens cherry-picked by an ACLU attorney. The evidence at the hearing was that the trans prisoner had been repeatedly harrassed and assaulted in the men's prison. From the judge's opinion:

The Wardens’ memos ... identify no serious infractions or raise any concern that Petitioner is likely to engage in inappropriate conduct. And, probably most
significantly, Petitioner is a different person than she was in 1993. She is sober, under consistent mental health counseling and medication management, and has maximized and stabilized her hormones within the target ranges for transgender women. A theoretical risk of sexual assault by Petitioner, without more, cannot support the BOP’s position.... Apart from conclusory statements, the BOP puts forth no evidence that Petitioner has or would sexually assault other prisoners at a women’s facility or that she poses a greater threat to women than that posed by any other prisoner.

The overwhelming evidence suggests that BOP’s decision to deny Petitioner a transfer to a women’s facility is based on bias and fear and not evidence. It is not reasonably related to the legitimate penological interest of protecting prisoners. The factors that the TEC is required to consider under the 2022 TEC Manual support her transfer, as does the evidence submitted by BOP staff, including three different wardens at FCI Otisville. And as discussed earlier, BOP’s “accommodations” are not adequate to address Petitioner’s serious medical needs. Accordingly, I conclude that the denial of Petitioner’s transfer cannot be excused as an appropriate exercise of BOP’s discretion.

Flock, when you shoot your mouth off without knowing what you're talking about, you shoot yourself in the foot every time.

The evidence is that he is still a man. PERIOD. (Which he does and cannot ever have, regardless of his age.)

Well, I still have feet, so you are the one who must be wrong.

[wbtravis007]

If they were good wardens, no one in their prisons would be assaulting anyone. And so, they are experts on this subject? Someone actually went through the trouble of finding 3 specific wardens to opine on this subject?

Do you really think there is a prison anywhere in this country where prisoners don't assault each other? The three wardens happened to be the ones in charge of the men's prison where she was incarcerated at various times during her stay, not three wardens cherry-picked by an ACLU attorney. The evidence at the hearing was that the trans prisoner had been repeatedly harrassed and assaulted in the men's prison. From the judge's opinion:

The Wardens’ memos ... identify no serious infractions or raise any concern that Petitioner is likely to engage in inappropriate conduct. And, probably most
significantly, Petitioner is a different person than she was in 1993. She is sober, under consistent mental health counseling and medication management, and has maximized and stabilized her hormones within the target ranges for transgender women. A theoretical risk of sexual assault by Petitioner, without more, cannot support the BOP’s position.... Apart from conclusory statements, the BOP puts forth no evidence that Petitioner has or would sexually assault other prisoners at a women’s facility or that she poses a greater threat to women than that posed by any other prisoner.

The overwhelming evidence suggests that BOP’s decision to deny Petitioner a transfer to a women’s facility is based on bias and fear and not evidence. It is not reasonably related to the legitimate penological interest of protecting prisoners. The factors that the TEC is required to consider under the 2022 TEC Manual support her transfer, as does the evidence submitted by BOP staff, including three different wardens at FCI Otisville. And as discussed earlier, BOP’s “accommodations” are not adequate to address Petitioner’s serious medical needs. Accordingly, I conclude that the denial of Petitioner’s transfer cannot be excused as an appropriate exercise of BOP’s discretion.

Flock, when you shoot your mouth off without knowing what you're talking about, you shoot yourself in the foot every time.

The evidence is that he is still a man. PERIOD. (Which he does and cannot ever have, regardless of his age.)

Well, I still have feet, so you are the one who must be wrong.

It would be fun to see which of your TDS’s — (your Trump Derangement Syndrome or your Trans Derangement Syndrome) — would prevail if Trump were to pull a Jenner.

I think even the boys in Predictions would be hard-pressed to call correctly what your reaction might be. On the one hand, I’m sure they’d find it hard to believe that you wouldn’t be helplessly repulsed. But, on the other hand, they’d probably imagine that you might just as easily succumb to your Trump infatuation and end up rationalizing it by agreeing with him that he’s too pretty to be a guy.

[Beebs52]

Wb, are you, like, on something? Or what.